Ret 31% haste?

[bigred]

So I was just re-reading the sticky guide always looking for new info and I stumbled upon a statement that if I have the legendary cloak (which i do- that and the dps belt...don't hate) that I should be pursuing 31% haste... has that always been the case for the cloak? i've had it about a month and i just haven't seen/heard this. I'm fine to try to pursue 31% haste, but at what expense? should i equip a haste trinket (ravaged spore pod, or haste stat stick) even though i have the scorpion trinket and an 840 FCM? I know that ultimately simming my char is the best, and i'm just getting into that, but I was just looking for some guidance and thoughts regarding it. thanks and paladin on!

[Deleted]

I'm pretty sure that guide isn't up to date.

I wouldnt recommend going for that much haste over crit and vers.

[bigred]

I thought that was a little high, but I saw a few guys seeming to go for it.

Another quick question... is there any chance I should unequip my legendary to get four piece bonus? It doesn't feel right and seems counterproductive, but I only have a four set that include the cloak.

[Deleted]

No. Keep the legendary cloak equipped. Get the 4 set with another piece when you get it.

[bigred]

I thought so. Thanks. I wish there was just a hard and fast rule: "25% haste and then do this"... but I know each character and sim is different. It'll all work out

[dnicks17]

I thought that was a little high, but I saw a few guys seeming to go for it.

Another quick question... is there any chance I should unequip my legendary to get four piece bonus? It doesn't feel right and seems counterproductive, but I only have a four set that include the cloak.

I don't remember the exact numbers off the top of my head, but the legendary cloak gives about 2.5 times more of a DPS gain than going from 2pc to 4pc, so definitely stick with the legendary cloak.

[Goldenboy1]

Top retribution paladins are sitting at 30% haste, 22% crit or there about. 31% haste is okay so long as your other stats are adequate.

[Fainraven]

Top retribution paladins are sitting at 30% haste, 22% crit or there about. 31% haste is okay so long as your other stats are adequate.

Rotation feels so much smoother with high haste Sims seem to not care as much.

[Goldenboy1]

Rotation feels so much smoother with high haste Sims seem to not care as much.

Yeah haste is pretty nice to have. Four set plus Fires of Justice = fluid, but it gets to a point where too much haste is unhealthy

[bigred]

Top retribution paladins are sitting at 30% haste, 22% crit or there about. 31% haste is okay so long as your other stats are adequate.

see, that's not what i'm seeing...i'm just using my little iphone app, but solsacra, miniret, and murista...three of the top ish US ret paladins i could find are all using between 22-24% haste.

[ThePants999]

I thought so. Thanks. I wish there was just a hard and fast rule: "25% haste and then do this"... but I know each character and sim is different. It'll all work out

You only get "hard and fast rules" relating to specific stat numbers when you have
- softcaps, where you reach a limit above which a stat ceases to offer value in one particular respect. For example, Holy paladins have a point above which Holy Shock has a 100% crit chance during wings, which makes crit above that point significantly less valuable.
- breakpoints, where a particular stat value offers a specific benefit to reaching, so the stat is massively valuable if you're just below that value. Most haste-related breakpoints vanished with the haste rework Blizz did. Now, you only see haste breakpoints related to fixed-duration buffs/debuffs. Ret has two (well, one for most of us):
1. how many GCDs fit into a Judgment window
2. how many GCDs fit into the legendary cloak buff window.

I can't remember the exact numbers, but if I remember correctly, the Judgment-related breakpoints are at something very low like 12.5%, and something very high like 35%, which means it's pretty much irrelevant to most of us as you're practically guaranteed to be over the first breakpoint and clearly won't reach the second. The cloak-related ones are at ~12% and 50%, so again, pretty irrelevant.

That said, those numbers are for perfect play with every ability used precisely on the GCD. Haste beyond the theoretical breakpoint gives you breathing room for when lag or mistakes introduce sub-optimal timing.

Everything else you see - 20%, 25%, whatever - that's all garbage that people have pulled out of their arses with phrases like "it's much more comfortable above 20%", like they could tell the difference between 19% and 20%.

[Goldenboy1]

see, that's not what i'm seeing...i'm just using my little iphone app, but solsacra, miniret, and murista...three of the top ish US ret paladins i could find are all using between 22-24% haste.

Murista is not found on warcraft logs
Solsacra is private
Miniret is also not on warcraft logs

[bigred]

i'm not trying to argue with you, cause i'm probably goofing it up, but they are all in midwinter which is 7/10 mythic...maybe they don't raid or do logs or they're on the bench, but i have a hard time they are in such an elite guild with their respective gear scores and not playing the game with the best possible numbers...i'm gonna try a higher haste build and see how it goes.

[Goldenboy1]

i'm not trying to argue with you, cause i'm probably goofing it up, but they are all in midwinter which is 7/10 mythic...maybe they don't raid or do logs or they're on the bench, but i have a hard time they are in such an elite guild with their respective gear scores and not playing the game with the best possible numbers...i'm gonna try a higher haste build and see how it goes.

My apologies, I am posting in many areas and realized how rude my short answers are. I was just trying to say I could not find them on warcraft logs and have no idea how they are preforming or their stats. All I know, regarding what stats are preforming well, is from the top parses.

[Fainraven]

You only get "hard and fast rules" relating to specific stat numbers when you have
- softcaps, where you reach a limit above which a stat ceases to offer value in one particular respect. For example, Holy paladins have a point above which Holy Shock has a 100% crit chance during wings, which makes crit above that point significantly less valuable.
- breakpoints, where a particular stat value offers a specific benefit to reaching, so the stat is massively valuable if you're just below that value. Most haste-related breakpoints vanished with the haste rework Blizz did. Now, you only see haste breakpoints related to fixed-duration buffs/debuffs. Ret has two (well, one for most of us):
1. how many GCDs fit into a Judgment window
2. how many GCDs fit into the legendary cloak buff window.

I can't remember the exact numbers, but if I remember correctly, the Judgment-related breakpoints are at something very low like 12.5%, and something very high like 35%, which means it's pretty much irrelevant to most of us as you're practically guaranteed to be over the first breakpoint and clearly won't reach the second. The cloak-related ones are at ~12% and 50%, so again, pretty irrelevant.

That said, those numbers are for perfect play with every ability used precisely on the GCD. Haste beyond the theoretical breakpoint gives you breathing room for when lag or mistakes introduce sub-optimal timing.

Everything else you see - 20%, 25%, whatever - that's all garbage that people have pulled out of their arses with phrases like "it's much more comfortable above 20%", like they could tell the difference between 19% and 20%.

I don't disagree but there is a point below 20% where it becomes very hard to use 3 finishers in one judgment window. And depending on mistakes and how perfect people are playing they can find that point and fixate on it.

[bigred]

My apologies, I am posting in many areas and realized how rude my short answers are. I was just trying to say I could not find them on warcraft logs and have no idea how they are preforming or their stats. All I know, regarding what stats are preforming well, is from the top parses.

All good friend. I didn't think you were rude! Thanks for trying to help me figure it out!! I'm gonna see if I can get to about 25% and see how it feels.

I don't think I'll sacrifice my trinkets though... that can't be right... haha

[oraz4000]

Yeah haste is pretty nice to have. Four set plus Fires of Justice = fluid, but it gets to a point where too much haste is unhealthy

Exactly you end up clipping your spells with lust and at 15 stacks of Crusade just to much haste to react to.

[Deleted]

Now im not sure and can't check for myself atm but i believe there is actually a small breakpoint around 30~33% haste were you will hit the haste cap with crusade and heroism/timewarp running at the same time at least that is what i remember being the justification for the ~30ish% haste cap but that was before the nerf to crusade and might have been inaccurate even then.

Sorry for the wall of text im bad at grammar and bad at formatting text on my phone

[bigred]

Spent three hours working on heroic Krosus (standing in swirlys is hard). I went with about 25% haste which was about 5% more than my normal 20... I feel like I was able to consistently stay at a higher dps and my crusade felt smooth as well as linking legendary cape final verdicts over and over. I'm gonna keep at it and try some adds fights as well. Thanks again for all that weighed in on stuff.

[Goldenboy1]

Spent three hours working on heroic Krosus (standing in swirlys is hard). I went with about 25% haste which was about 5% more than my normal 20... I feel like I was able to consistently stay at a higher dps and my crusade felt smooth as well as linking legendary cape final verdicts over and over. I'm gonna keep at it and try some adds fights as well. Thanks again for all that weighed in on stuff.

Just out of curiosity what trinkets are you using?