Broken Isles Pathfinder, Part Two

[SirCowdog]

Considering, that is how it has been in all previous new zones introduced after flying was obtainable, outside of Tanaan Jungle, I don't see any reason why it would be different for the broken shore or Argus. Blizzard wants us to be grounded. That is how they want to design the game. I think all of these thread has proven that it isn't about enjoyable content or choice. It's about wanting to get things done as fast as possible while avoiding all the things that "artificially" slow you down.

Then you haven't been comprehending, or fully reading, what people are saying. Most of the complaints I'm reading are from people who have done countless world quests. They've exhausted all the open world content months ago, and are pointing out that there's literally no reason why they shouldn't be able to fly at this point. Most of the suggestions are that flight should be obtainable in the launch content after being done exactly once, in order to see the game "how blizzard intended it"; NOT after a year into the expansion at some arbitrary time frame.

You also failed to recognize the context of previous expansions. This isn't a new game that they're building in a vacumm that players have never encountered before. This is a well-established game with a high level of player expectations. Sure, Blizzard might want to create a 100% grounded game, but it's clear that they CAN'T do so and deliver a product which will sell as well. Otherwise why return flying at all, at ANY point?

This adherence to trying to force the issue is going to cause more harm to the game than simply acknowledging that flight is something that players want. IF they try to pull a bait and switch and give flight back, followed immediately by a no-flying island as open world content, it's going to backfire on them.

[Makorus]

Why does Blizzard not make it so you can click somewhere on the map and you instantly get teleported there?

[Orby]

At this point I am happy with no flying... Not like its needed. Then again I was agaisnt flying back in WotLK, although was okay when it was just flying in Outland. I kind of feel flying ruined the old world

[Deleted]

Why does Blizzard not make it so you can click somewhere on the map and you instantly get teleported there?

Why does Blizzard not remove mounts or even running entirely. Walking also gets you where you want to go. Might aswell let people teleport! Also remove all portals and flight masters, stop being lazy. See I can do hyperboles too!

At this point I am happy with no flying... Not like its needed. Then again I was agaisnt flying back in WotLK, although was okay when it was just flying in Outland. I kind of feel flying ruined the old world

Flying in the old world was introduced in Cataclysm not Wotlk. Also, how exactly did flying "ruin the old world" especially given anyone leveling through it wont have it as you only get it at 60?

[facelesssoul]

Here we go again with the vocal no-flying trolls. Most people want flying. Naysayers are just the VERY VOCAL MINORITY.

[Orby]

Flying in the old world was introduced in Cataclysm not Wotlk. Also, how exactly did flying "ruin the old world" especially given anyone leveling through it wont have it as you only get it at 60?

Just my opinion but I feel flying is a horrible aspect of any MMO, unless its a plane themed MMO and flying is the game.

A fantasy MMO should be more grounded, exploring this wonderfully crafting large world and being lost in it. It's hard to be immersed when you are flying over it. It's just a feature thats never appealed to me really, I loved looking up at the world, not looking down at it. Each to their own its just my personal taste thats all.

RE: I am aware flying was introduced in cata I don't think I mentioned it was. Probably I just worded the sentence wrong :P

Here we go again with the vocal no-flying trolls. Most people want flying. Naysayers are just the VERY VOCAL MINORITY.

I dont like something you like, here by I am a troll... obviously.

[Stellan]

So you estimate a month to complete, is that really too long? You still have well over a year of the expansion to fly to your hearts content, its not like they are giving it to you in the last month of the expansion. Some people are never happy...

Funny thing, though. Before WoD we got flying when we got level cap. See the difference?

[Eleccybubb]

Funny thing, though. Before WoD we got flying when we got level cap. See the difference?

And now you have to go out and explore like a pathfinder to go and get it? Shock horror some effort has to be put in to unlock an optional feature in a video game.

- - - Updated - - -

Here we go again with the vocal no-flying trolls. Most people want flying. Naysayers are just the VERY VOCAL MINORITY.

Someone not wanting something you do makes them a troll? Uhm ok then.

[Mitak]

I am sure if we had flying from day one, people would complain that they exhausted the current content too fast and the wold does not feel "alive"
I personally love hte current setup where we get flying mid expansion. It makes me explore and makes the world richer and bigger. Also it reminds me a bit of vanilla WOW.

[SirCowdog]

Just my opinion but I feel flying is a horrible aspect of any MMO, unless its a plane themed MMO and flying is the game.

A fantasy MMO should be more grounded, exploring this wonderfully crafting large world and being lost in it. It's hard to be immersed when you are flying over it. It's just a feature thats never appealed to me really, I loved looking up at the world, not looking down at it. Each to their own its just my personal taste thats all.

And yet WoW has had flying for most of its lifespan. At some point people need to recognize this. It's been here for longer than it hasn't. It's part of what wow IS. Trying to change something so fundamental about the open world this late in the game's life is just stupid, and it's already caused enough harm. Delaying it further is just increasing the damage.

And now you have to go out and explore like a pathfinder to go and get it? Shock horror some effort has to be put in to unlock an optional feature in a video game.

We've been over the value proposition of Pathfinder in this thread and others. Unless 7.3 brings SIGNIFICANTLY more open world content to the expansion, Pathfinder ensures that flight has almost no value to the players. By the time you unlock it you've already been required to clear everything you'd use flight on. This isn't about not wanting to put in effort to get flying. It's about how overly restrictive and unnecessary the delay for getting flight is.

[Orby]

And yet WoW has had flying for most of its lifespan. At some point people need to recognize this. It's been here for longer than it hasn't. It's part of what wow IS. Trying to change something so fundamental about the open world this late in the game's life is just stupid, and it's already caused enough harm. Delaying it further is just increasing the damage.

Jesus Christ... please read my other comments, to save me repeating myself...

I said I have never really supported it in the old world, I had no issue with it in TBC or Wrath. Well to an extent, my best times in WoW have never been flying over it. If you create a world where flying is needed then bring it on, but Vanilla never NEEDED flying.

As for Legion and Warlords I love the way they introduced flying, its not like I am saying I hate flying so no one else should have it. I say the way Blizzard are doing it now is right, allowing people to explore and do the content first then introduce flying.

[facelesssoul]

As for Legion and Warlords I love the way they introduced flying, its not like I am saying I hate flying so no one else should have it. I say the way Blizzard are doing it now is right, allowing people to explore and do the content first then introduce flying.

The is a very narrow sweet spot where being grounded allows players to forcibly experience ground content buffers is not just tedious. I would say that is when the first raid tier hits and the time investment in progress or even lfr starts taking the center-stage. By 7.1.5 flying should have been unlocked so as to ease alt leveling for those who will get burnt out from doing group content.

[Celadir]

Blizzard has made enough changes to the game so that flying is not a game-breaking option anymore. While I'm waiting for raid or M+ groups I'll go to places where I can just fly around to pass time. The WotLK expansion implemented flying well and is how I think the future model should be considered to be: reach max level, maybe force an exploration achievement, and then sell the option to fly for 1,000 gold. Currently, I'd be happy to just have flying in Highmountain...has anyone noticed the ground path clearly shown on the map near the North that is actually a slip-n-slide down the side of a mountain? Yeah, I found that with my warrior while auto-running and not being able to stop quickly enough because I was eating dinner.

While we're on this subject of travel efficiency/options and/or lack thereof, what about the water bug (which almost didn't get to keep water walking, but enough people challenged that decision) allowing easy travel across bodies of water? It's almost the same concept minus the wings and air in your face, right? Skipping mobs, avoiding conflict, less time getting from A to B. Some will say, "we had to reach a status for that mount" and that's fine I'm not singling anyone out, but didn't we also reach a status/invest previously to have an option of flying? All I'm saying is it's semi-ridiculous you have to jump through hoops and wait "X" amount of time before being allowed to fully use 50%+ of our mounts; some of which (Phoenix, Mimron's head, depleted rocket, etc...) a lot of us spent many hours farming for, tracking, or trying to get via loot drop.

[Orby]

The is a very narrow sweet spot where being grounded allows players to forcibly experience ground content buffers is not just tedious. I would say that is when the first raid tier hits and the time investment in progress or even lfr starts taking the center-stage. By 7.1.5 flying should have been unlocked so as to ease alt leveling for those who will get burnt out from doing group content.

I can respect that. But I prefer it the way it is

[ExtremelyCrusty]

Flying is not a big deal.

[Deleted]

Flying is not a big deal.

Then why is your post number 507 in a thread about the lack of flying being a big deal?

[Fabinas]

What no-flyers cannot understand is that a portion of the playerbase wants things done faster so they can go do OTHER things in the game, instead of traversing around with ground mounts or using flightpaths. ANY amount of time spent running around means less time for me playing an alt, farming an old instance, go finish my old world pet hunting etc. DOING THINGS FASTER doesn't mean i run out of content. It means i do more content, while getting the tedious part of travelling at a snail speed around.

No i don't want instant teleports. I do want flying back tho. I'll happily take my flightpath from zone to zone, but i'd much prefer flying within the zone i'm in. Mobs while travelling don't pose a threat now to me at 890 ilvl. They are just a hurdle, a time eater, time spent better at things in or out of the game.

[LaserChild9]

Funny thing, though. Before WoD we got flying when we got level cap. See the difference?

Just because you had something once, does not mean you are entitled to get it forever. Combustion used to be an awesome extra dot on my fire mage, now its not. I used to be able to play as a tree with a raidwide healing aura as a resto druid, now I cant. I used to be able to use righteous defence to pull up to 3 mobs off a player with aggro on my prot pally, now I cant. I used to be able to store up a whole bag of soulshards on my warlock, now I cant. You see where I'm going here? The game changes, grow up and deal with it.

[SirCowdog]

Jesus Christ... please read my other comments, to save me repeating myself...

I said I have never really supported it in the old world, I had no issue with it in TBC or Wrath. Well to an extent, my best times in WoW have never been flying over it. If you create a world where flying is needed then bring it on, but Vanilla never NEEDED flying.

As for Legion and Warlords I love the way they introduced flying, its not like I am saying I hate flying so no one else should have it. I say the way Blizzard are doing it now is right, allowing people to explore and do the content first then introduce flying.

I quoted the relevant part that I was replying to. You literally said you felt that flying was a "Horrible part of any MMO", and "A fantasy MMO should be more grounded". Those are pretty damn generalized statements.

As for how flying was handled in WoD and Legion: I still disagree completely. Pathfinder doesn't "Allow" players any choice in the matter(to use your own words), and that robs any value the ground exploration might have had. I can't appreciate their 'artistic vision' or whatever when I'm being forced into it. All it does is generate irritation and annoyance in the same way an unskippable cutscene does.

And what's worse is that I don't feel the ground design being used in WoD and Legion are very good in the first place. In fact, I highly suspect that most people would not even bother with the tedious ground design if they had any choice in the matter. Even if flying was the same speed as ground mounts, and had a cooldown. How often do you use your hearth or the whistle to get out of a quest area quickly, once it's done? How often do you use a glider or emerald winds to get around? FFS, how much "exploration" does every single Demon Hunter skip by simply jumping off cliffs and gliding past everything in a straight line?

Besides which, if exploration was the primary reason for withholding flight there would not be things like reputation grinds, or delays involved. Flight would be available after the explorer and quest completion achievements were done. Instead we're all sitting here on our hands waiting while Blizzard decides to finally give the OK.

Restricting flight is not, and has never been, about making a better more enjoyable open world. It's an attempt at ensuring that every single person who subscribes consumes every single iota of open content whether they like it or not.

[ExtremelyCrusty]

Then why is your post number 507 in a thread about the lack of flying being a big deal?

I enjoy reading the freak outs in the comments.