Romania's Government pushes law like thieves in night, biggest demonstration in retun

[Deleted]

Update 12.02.2017
While the Government gave way the the law was cancelled through another law, the people don't trust the Government so much anymore.
The cancelling law is set to go through the Parliament, but it contains an article that is changed from the old law because it was declared unconstitutional so the cancelling law might itself be declared unconstitutional, thus meaning that the law proposed by the Government will start taking action. Only time will tell what happens.
In the meantime, the Justice minister, the guy who seems to have proposed the bad law, resigns (it wasn't truly him that proposed him, but whatever).
The protests however continue as people are still unhappy as the law itself won't be cancelled until the cancelling law goes through the Parliament.
After last week people raised their phones and lights to the sky and made a beautiful light across the thousands of people, this week people got coloured paper in the colours of our flag and created a mass of Romanian flag:


People have made a Declaration of the people in Timisoara (city in west of Romania) demanding, among others:
- the resignation of the Government
- the removal of politics from naming of institutions leaders (like the managers of hospitals)
- the ability for any citizen to contest laws to the National Constitutional Court, not only for the Lawyer of people
- the ability to send politicians to justice without the need of a ruling agreement from the Parliament
etc.


Update 05.02.2017
Today, Sunday, is the biggest protest we had since the start of the protests. Only in the capital city there's 200.000 people protesting while there are also others protesting in other cities!
The Government law was removed from urgency and sent to the Parliament, but people are still unhappy about what happened and are asking for the Prime Minister's resignation.
In the meanwhile, the ruling party organized a counter-demonstration in support of the Government. About 2500 people were present at its peak numbers. Here's a live video (take note that people are there at 19.00 GMT - this is London time, while you see it there may not be that many left or the video might not be live anymore):
https://www.facebook.com/StirileProT...4448655247266/

Update 02.02.2017
Today there were again people in the streets, 80.000 in the capital and some 200.000 in the country after the prime minster Sorin Grindeanu... well actually not him, but rather his party's leader, Liviu Dragnea, said they're not abandoning the law. The biggest protests are expected on Sunday though.
Videos from news channels (some are in Romanian though):
http://www.stirileprotv.ro/lbin/vide...eo_section_id=

http://www.euronews.com/2017/02/02/romania-s-top-court-vows-to-rule-on-corruption-decree-as-protests-mount

Romania, my country is currently experiencing a horrible time. The current Government pushed for a change in the Code of Laws that would let corrupt people escape free under certain conditions.
The people were against it so the Government pushed it as an Urgency law at 22:30 in the night, like thieves, this after the president and the EU talked to them about the dangers of approving the changes without public consulting or without taking them through the Parliament.
This sparked the largest demonstrations since the fall of communism, with over 250.000 people taking the streets in the country, with over 125.000 people protesting in front of the Government building in the capital of Bucharest.

http://www.euronews.com/2017/02/02/protesters-in-romania-hold-huge-demonstration-over-government-anti-corruption-u
http://www.euronews.com/2017/02/02/what-do-romanians-think-of-country-s-corruption-controversy



Protesters in Bucharest have condemned a government decision to decriminalise some misconduct offences, in one of the biggest demonstrations since the 1989 revolution.

Tens of thousands of angry Romanians claim the passing of an emergency decree on Tuesday will allow corrupt politicians to escape justice.
The change in the law will decriminalises official misconduct in cases where the financial damage is less than 200,000 lei (44,000 euros).
Journalist and blogger Lucian Mindruta was one of those taking part in the protest:
“It’s an incredible manifestation of disappointment from these people who feel that they have been cheated. They have been deceived by the government. This Socialist government came to power only one month ago and in one month they managed to have 100.000 people unprecedented since the revolution on the streets against it.”


Critics say the change in the law will reverse Romania’s anti-corruption fight that has drawn widespread praise internationally.
“I never dared to think that this was possible. I have always thought that there was some logic, some common sense that would lead to a valid law. But when I saw what has happened, I was wrong,” said writer Florin Iaru.


Some are calling for the new Social Democrat government of Prime Miniser Sorin Grindeanu to resign, while others just want the decree to be repealed.
“We don’t want the government to quit, because they promised a lot of things to their voters and a lot of ambitious things and we would like to see it,” was the message from one protester.
Government position

The change in the law will decriminalises official misconduct in cases where the financial damage is less than 200,000 lei (44,000 euros).
The government is also aiming to grant amnesty to those sentenced to jail terms shorter than five years in relation to certain crimes and halve prison terms for those with young children, pregnant women, or those over 60.
In response to days of protests the government has defended its actions saying the changes will bring the criminal code in line with recent constitutional court rulings and ease prison overcrowding, claims disputed by many senior judicial figures.



Video from yesterday on Youtube:


Other Video from yesterday from Reuters and RFE:
http://reut.rs/2kvfP3I
http://www.rferl.org/embed/player/0/...tml?type=video

[Deleted]

That is just straight up sad, to see such blatant corruption (protection) pass. Hopefully it can still be negated, because numbers like that are hard to ignore.

[Mihalik]

Will this turn into a revolution like in Ukraine?

No.

Romania doesn't suffer from the factionalism Ukraine does, the largest ethnic minority in Romania are Hungarians and they only make up about 5 something percent of the population, they actually elected a German as President (he is on the protestors side). Nor does Romania fall into the Russian sphere of influence.

This move seems to be unpopular across the political spectrum there.

[CostinR]

Idiots. Fucking idiots in PSD.

They set the country on fire over this and we don't have a budget for our government yet.

[Independent voter]

That's how Putin became czar, he didn't testify against his boss who was corrupt as hell, this was during his Saint Petersburg period, the mayor of Saint Petersburg even stole food meant for the Saint Petersburg poor and sold it on the black market. The oligarchs saw how Putin didn't testify and they decided to make the little guy czar knowing that Putin wouldn't press legal charges against them.

Corruption causes all kinds of problems.

[Mihalik]

Idiots. Fucking idiots.

They set the country on fire over this and we don't have a budget for our government yet.

Seriously?

Who's fault is that? It's not up to the protestors to pass a budget, it's odd that the government finds the time to legalize graft, but not to pass a budget.

[Deleted]

Idiots. Fucking idiots.

They set the country on fire over this and we don't have a budget for our government yet.

The heck does that have to do with it?

[TrumpIsPresident]

Idiots. Fucking idiots.

They set the country on fire over this and we don't have a budget for our government yet.

Are they rioting now?

Are these the same people that rioted a few years ago over budget cuts?

[Puremallace]

It is almost like politicians keep forgetting they are employed by the people. It is pure insanity and has severe backlashes. I fully support the Romanian people marking against corruption.

[Sorshen]

Idiots. Fucking idiots.

They set the country on fire over this and we don't have a budget for our government yet.

Nice deflection. That's what the media propaganda machine of these corrupt assholes is doing all day. Just spin it around.


PSD (the ruling party) got ~45% and ALDE (their lapdogs) got ~6% in the december elections, on promises of increasing pensions/salaries and removing some taxes - so they have undisputed Parliament majority. PSD is probably the most corrupt political party in all of the EU and probably top tier in eastern/central Europe, ever since the fall of communism in december 1989.
They cling to the "we are chosen by the people, we undeniably won" to pass executive orders like this one (aimed at saving their members and puppet mayors/council members) thru their puppet government. Disgusting.

[Voidism]

I hope the Romanian people get something positive out of this.
This decriminalization is truly spectacularly mind bogglingly otherwordly. How is it even possible to think the thought... >.<

You have my support.

[ParanoiD84]

Corruption always suck, hope they can purge it out.

[CostinR]

The heck does that have to do with it?

It has everything to do with the utter lunacy of the Social Democrats, PSD, doing this while we need a budget. Fucking hell.

Ooh look, it's the usual suspect rushing in to defend corruption.

There's no defense of corruption. You assume idiotic crap. The Social Democrats set the country on fire with their executive order.

[Deleted]

Romania, my country is currently experiencing a horrible time. The current Government pushed for a change in the Code of Laws that would let corrupt people escape free under certain conditions.

Do some politicians live in some special bubble world that can't grasp reality? Holy crap.

[Deleted]

That is just straight up sad, to see such blatant corruption (protection) pass. Hopefully it can still be negated, because numbers like that are hard to ignore.

Yes, it is. We have 10 days (from January 31) to convince the Government to revoke it, otherwise it will apply and all those with corruption cases will have their trials revoked and those that have been accused for it will be freed.

And the people aren't storming the buildings and tearing these bastards apart on the streets exactly WHY?! 250,000+ people there. Can't shoot all of them!

In Romania we never really had particularly that kind of protest characteristic. Yes, there's always a few people throwing rocks and stuff at the police but even in '89 (Communism overthrow) the people only started a violent revolution truly after the army started shooting.
There's also the aspect that much of the population of Romania is poor. Like... dirt poor. That's a huge problem we have and one that certain political parties exploit, as, with a few sacks of food, some money and promises they can win people to vote for them. To give you an example of what this kind of poverty means, at the last vote there were people offering the people who voted for PSD 50 lei (11.2 euros) if they went to the voting booth, voted with PSD, made a photo with their phones (even some of the shittiest phones now have cameras) and then came and showed the photo to certain people. There was quite a scandal on this.

Many people think that PSD will fulfill their promises of raising pensions and social aid, and in return they don't protest when PSD does something like this, because they don't care of the ramifications.

Will this turn into a revolution like in Ukraine?

Depends on what you mean. If you mean on something like the starting part, when the pro-Russian party was removed from power through force... it might.
If you're talking about the part with Russia intervening behind the back... well, not really, as Mihalik said, we don't have that many ethnic problems. Sure, there's a few hungarians in the middle of the country and they ask for autonomy from time to time, but this time even their ethnic party, UDMR, is against the current ruling party, PSD.

Idiots. Fucking idiots in PSD.

They set the country on fire over this and we don't have a budget for our government yet.

True. Romania has so many issues and they focused on this one the moment they got to power. No matter if anyone supported them based on liking or believing their promises, I hope they now realized that the current leadership of PSD is a plague. They never wanted to improve the people's lives, they wanted to have their people under trial escape.

That's how Putin became czar, he didn't testify against his boss who was corrupt as hell, this was during his Saint Petersburg period, the mayor of Saint Petersburg even stole food meant for the Saint Petersburg poor and sold it on the black market. The oligarchs saw how Putin didn't testify and they decided to make the little guy czar knowing that Putin wouldn't press legal charges against them.

Corruption causes all kinds of problems.

I didn't know that about Putin, that's interesting.
And yes, corruption does cause a lot of problems and it's the reason why Romania is so behind on other EU nations. We have resources and talented and smart people (and many have left in other countries for much better payed jobs and to better treatment) but corruption cripples our nation along with apathy. People think they can't change it because they've been living in it for so long and because many have had relatives die in the anti-communism revolution in '89 only to have this... a democracy that doesn't function except for for the rich elites.

Are they rioting now?

Are these the same people that rioted a few years ago over budget cuts?

Yes and no. A few years ago when we had the budget cuts during the economic crysis PSD (party currently in power and opposed now) was in opposition and people were against PNL.
However, some things to notice here is that due to that economic crysis PNL lost power and started restructuring and split somewhat (it still exists as a party, though it's not the same PNL). PSD got to power but in 2015 we had a club burn and over 50 people die. It was found that this occurred due to the fact that the club did not respect many laws as many people (including the then city sector mayor) had turned a blind eye. There were protests then regarding corruptions and the then prime-minister, a PSD leader, resigned. He also lost the presidential elections to which he candidated so he left the party ruling to the current party leader, Liviu Dragnea (to note that Liviu Dragnea has some trials regarding corruption on a roll).
For a year we had a technocrat Government as all parties agreed on it due to the fact that there was 1 year until elections. When elections came PNL had divided itself into a few smaller parties and although there were new parties and stuff, many people voted with PSD (I explayed why above to Stargazer in this same reply, you can check that comment if you're interested). The ironic thing is that PSD needed another small party to govern with and they took the one called ALDE, which is one formed by one of the 2 prime-ministers due to which Romania had entered the economic crysis in 2009 in the first place.

The reason why PSD now pushed for this change using the Government they formed is that they have a few important members (including the party leader Liviu Dragnea) that have trials on roll or are already in prison for corruption charges. The new law has a stage of 200.000 LEI, meaning approx 55.000 euros to which charges aren't made and the person isn't taken to prison and a trial is not even started. This is not a coincidence, as all of the PSD members which currently have trials or are in jail over this have issues with sums less than that. The change also allows those who are in a public role to not be indicted if they aid criminals through their actions.

As you see, it's a quite complicated situation and due to mish-mash of people from different parties, people don't really know which party isn't truly corrupt anymore.

It is almost like politicians keep forgetting they are employed by the people. It is pure insanity and has severe backlashes. I fully support the Romanian people marking against corruption.

Thank you very much.

I hope the Romanian people get something positive out of this.
This decriminalization is truly spectacularly mind bogglingly otherwordly. How is it even possible to think the thought... >.<

You have my support.

Thank you very much.

Corruption always suck, hope they can purge it out.

Yes, it does, I hope so too. Thank you for good thoughts.

Do some politicians live in some special bubble world that can't grasp reality? Holy crap.

Honestly, at this point I'm starting to think yes.
After the protests last night the Minister of Internal Affairs (PSD member) said she didn't know of the protests at all. This is, of course, a lie, as that building people are surrounding in the picture (the big cubic one) is the Government where she actually was.
The Government said they stand by their actions and certain PSD members actually said they won't be turned back by some fools who were probably payed to go to the protest (some even said that probably people were payed even for the dogs they brought to the protest).
The Justice Minister said that they are now in power and they made that law because they think it's best. When asked about public opinion his response was "next question".

On top of that, some of the affected politicians also have great influence over 2 major tv posts, and it's incredible what lies were there. For example, last night in the night of the protests, a handful of hooligans throwed rocks at the police guarding the Government building. So on one of these tv stations only those people were filmed (like no more than 100 people) with the big headline "the Johannis (current president, anti PSD also) symphatizants have started a coup d'etat, they are now attacking the Government!". Of course, on other tv stations where they showed the whole crowd or even slightly more than that corner you could see how from 125.000 people, there was only a very small area with those 100 at most people throwing shit while the rest were peaceful and chanting.

[Puremallace]

If anyone can understand how this is possible go see the US House of Representatives repealing a rule that requires companies listed on the stock exchange to report money they pay to foreign government otherwise known as bribes. They disguise it as lowering "operating cost" or cost to comply with regulations.

People honestly do not understand how much money is influencing politics all over the world.

[Deleted]

It has everything to do with the utter lunacy of the Social Democrats, PSD, doing this while we need a budget. Fucking hell.

I apologies, I thought you were talking about the protesters.

[CostinR]

I apologies, I thought you were talking about the protesters.

The protesters have a really big point. I despise the right in Romania but doesn't mean I'm going to ignore what they are saying.

Still the situation is far more complex then what is being reported on.

Romania on Fire: Massive Protests over Decriminalizing Corruption

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVBlwVxfX9c

[Deleted]

Update 05.02.2017
Today, Sunday, is the biggest protest we had since the start of the protests. Only in the capital city there's 200.000 people protesting while there are also others protesting in other cities!
The Government law was removed from urgency and sent to the Parliament, but people are still unhappy about what happened and are asking for the Prime Minister's resignation.
In the meanwhile, the ruling party organized a counter-demonstration in support of the Government. About 2500 people were present at its peak numbers. Here's a live video (take note that people are there at 19.00 GMT - this is London time, while you see it there may not be that many left or the video might not be live anymore):
https://www.facebook.com/StirileProT...4448655247266/

[Deleted]

Update 12.02.2017
While the Government gave way the the law was cancelled through another law, the people don't trust the Government so much anymore.
The cancelling law is set to go through the Parliament, but it contains an article that is changed from the old law because it was declared unconstitutional so the cancelling law might itself be declared unconstitutional, thus meaning that the law proposed by the Government will start taking action. Only time will tell what happens.
In the meantime, the Justice minister, the guy who seems to have proposed the bad law, resigns (it wasn't truly him that proposed him, but whatever).
The protests however continue as people are still unhappy as the law itself won't be cancelled until the cancelling law goes through the Parliament.
After last week people raised their phones and lights to the sky and made a beautiful light across the thousands of people, this week people got coloured paper in the colours of our flag and created a mass of Romanian flag:


People have made a Declaration of the people in Timisoara (city in west of Romania) demanding, among others:
- the resignation of the Government
- the removal of politics from naming of institutions leaders (like the managers of hospitals)
- the ability for any citizen to contest laws to the National Constitutional Court, not only for the Lawyer of people
- the ability to send politicians to justice without the need of a ruling agreement from the Parliament
etc.