Blizzard have effectively gotten rid of flying

[Hctaz]

Yeah really engaging to fall off somewhere and then to have to walk all the way around some fucking mountain only to finally give up and use the whistle. This terrain is the most fun it has ever been in WoW. I love dying in some place I can't fucking get to as a ghost, or where it takes such a long time, resurrecting at the spirit healer and waiting for the ress sickness to go away is actually the time-saving option.

Don't fall off? Usually I find when people fall off the terrain it's because they weren't paying attention.

[Serendipity_09]

Oh, I've seen all that.
But, as you've stated, convenience and ease to use tools to travel faster aren't an issue. The player takes the flight path to the quest area, travels minimally since there are so many of those, does the quest and whistles to the nearby flight path and repeat.

Sounds to me it's even faster than flying. And, if flying on our Flying Mounts, diminish the size of the world in our minds, so does flying in Flight Paths. So I'll ask again, why was flying really removed?

If it's faster than flying why would we need flying then?

[Dystemper]

IF flying was not such a big deal then I doubt the subs would have tanked as bad as they did in WOD and still have not recovered.

[Darkeon]

If it's faster than flying why would we need flying then?

Wasn't that the reason why "flying was causing harm to the game"? If so, why are these accessibility tools okay? Hypocrisy?

[Deleted]

They can never get rid of flying, people have worked too hard for certain flying mounts "But you can use them as ground mounts" is not an acceptable compromise.

[Battlebeard]

I agree with OP 100%. I hate the terrain in Legion, truly hate it.

They should have had flying from day 1 with such a terrible world design

[SirCowdog]

You get flying eventually, Jesus Christ.... It's not going anywhere.

Do you people listen to how stupid you sound "Blizzard are not releasing flying when I want them to! Thats it flying is dead! We're all gonna die, here comes the apocalypse, worries me, what a cruel world"

It's actually quite amusing, why do you people want flying like RIGHT NOW!!!! IS there some secret level that requires flying that you need to get to that we don't know about

Or we might be looking at it objectively, and recognizing that Pathfinder ensures that flying is only released after it has no value. But then again, I don't expect that you'd even bothered to consider what's actually going with it, you just want to look down on someone who doesn't like the same things as you.

[Serendipity_09]

You got that right. Simply throwing trash mobs and log palisades and invisible walls everywhere is the laziest, weakest form of that. Legion zone design isn't more engaging, it's just tedious.

<Snip>

I'm so sick of hearing these polarizing statement and bad logic excuses. You guys have bought so fully into this idea that flying is bad that other ideas don't even register to you. Your thinking is so stuck inside this no-flying box that Blizzard created in WoD and Legion that you can't see anything else.

Your argument seems to be that Blizzard should create content friendly flying... This thread seems to be talking about having flying at all...

[SirCowdog]

If it's faster than flying why would we need flying then?

Because it's fun. Such a novel concept, I know.

[Serendipity_09]

Because it's fun. Such a novel concept, I know.

Fun is subjective, impossible to quantify or measure as it varies person to person.

[SirCowdog]

Your argument seems to be that Blizzard should create content friendly flying... This thread seems to be talking about having flying at all...

Because you can't really talk about one without the other. If Blizzard simply throws flying into content which is designed to ignore that it even exists, of course it's going to break that content. So there's only three solutions: Remove flying entirely forever and continue to make ground-only content. Delay flying until all ground content is exhausted(so there's nothing left to break, thus making flight useless), or create content which takes flight into consideration in the first place.

Pathfinder currently falls into the second solution. And the only reason people seem to be ok with that is because they either haven't fully considered the implications, or don't actually want/like flight in the first place.

[Serendipity_09]

Because you can't really talk about one without the other. If Blizzard simply throws flying into content which is designed to ignore that it even exists, of course it's going to break that content. So there's only three solutions: Remove flying entirely forever and continue to make ground-only content. Delay flying until all ground content is exhausted(so there's nothing left to break, thus making flight useless), or create content which takes flight into consideration in the first place.

Pathfinder currently falls into the second solution. And the only reason people seem to be ok with that is because they either haven't fully considered the implications, or don't actually want/like flight in the first place.

It seems to me they chose the second option. I think they call that compromise?

[Evangeliste]

I do like flying, has its bonuses and all...
But let's be honest here. If it wasn't made as part of the game no-one would have a difference of an opinion.
I'm sure many people play games online and not all of them have the ability to fly over terrain, I doubt many would demand its existence and potentially say it's damaging.

In the end they may do what they did with Storm Peaks where flying was kinda integrated into a quest zone. But at the end, if you're impatient and demand flying then well any grinding, long-term input kind of game really isn't a good choice.

[Orby]

Or we might be looking at it objectively, and recognizing that Pathfinder ensures that flying is only released after it has no value. But then again, I don't expect that you'd even bothered to consider what's actually going with it, you just want to look down on someone who doesn't like the same things as you.

But you are still getting flying regardless, why should it have value now as opposed to later? Why can you not wait for it? What are you losing out on? I would like to know! I just think you are creating problems where there is none.

I have no issue with you wanting flying but I do have issue with you wanting things without 'needing' it. I want endless gold, should I moan about it on the forums about how I want that.

[Aeula]

Really want it back now. In WoD I didn't mind because I had Aviana's feather and the terrain was nice and open, easy to get around. But legion's zones are absolutely horrible. Especially Suramar, sucks having to spend 10 minutes using my gnomish gravity well to climb up a cliff I couldn't find the path to.

The lack of flying has made me completely hate Suramar as a zone. Couldn't even be bothered reading the quest text or listening to the dialogue by the end of it. Totally ruined the flow in addition to all the stupid gating.

[Deleted]

Subs are down and it will be cheaper to develop the game in the future with unfinished environments. Flying will be gone completely at some point, except for old world content.

Oh well. Enjoy the game, I suppose...doesn't sound like I'm missing much...

The game is still designed for flying you absolute gob.

Infracted

[SirCowdog]

It seems to me they chose the second option. I think they call that compromise?

Except that it's not a compromise because the people who want flight don't actually get anything. What is the purpose of flying if all of the content has been exhausted for months before you even get it? What are you going to use it for, to go do some WQs that reward gear 50 ilvls below what you're wearing? To get some more reputation when you're already exalted?

We're talking on the order of a YEAR of playing everything the game has to offer before you can even get access to flight. By then there will LITERALLY be nothing left for you to do. And if you waited until flying is available, the Pathfinder requirements ensure that you still have virtually no content left to use it on. How, exactly, is that a compromise?

[Deleted]

You got that right. Simply throwing trash mobs and log palisades and invisible walls everywhere is the laziest, weakest form of that. Legion zone design isn't more engaging, it's just tedious.

If you ask +any* game designer they will all tell you that adding a third dimension is a lot of trouble for no gain.

Unless they have the same content and attention per square foot as every other zone.

Thats the point, isn't it? resources are finite. You simply can't have that, there isn#t enough work hours. and don't start with hiring more people, look up the "mythycal man month".

BULL. SHIT.

What a well crafted argument you present there.

And are you going to tell me that it's impossible to create obstacles for people on a flying mount? Anti-air canons, harpoons, kaliri birds, smoke/fog/clouds to block line of sight, airships shooting at them, dragons, felbats, archers, casters, heavy tree-cover, caves and other indoor areas, magical shields(you know, like the one that used to protect suramar!?), acid rain, infernals falling from the sky, Legion space-ships, and any number of other things to make flying dangerous.

Please take a moment and think about that. Most people are terrible at flying, I mean really terrible. Look back at raid encounters like Malygos and Alysrazor. most of the player base is just not good at three dimensional thinking. Now add anti-air cannons you need to evade. The shitstorm would be unbelievable. It wouldn't be fun for a lot of people. Birds don't work for the same reason, either they dosmount you and you plummet to death (again, not very engaging gameplay, is it?). On the one hand you are not fine with a wooden palisade (because barriers are stupid and tedious), and the other hand a "magical barrier like the one at suramar" is better? how? Both are physical obstacles that are in the way. I don#t see why the one is better then the other. smoke/fog clouds? really? That would only look forced, which it would in fact be. infernals falling from the sky? It would need to *rain+ them to have any impact on flying, and where would they go then after they came down?

Please, think about the actual practical sides of most of your suggestions. cannons (which would be frustrating), barriers and indoor locations ( caves are the only ones that would actually work on a grand scale. But if you have a lot of caves, then why bother with an open world to begin with? If you have a lot of caves / indoor locations to prevent flying, then why bother with flying in the first place? you could just design the world without flying.

And thats the whole point, why trying to design a world around flying, when you can simply forbid flying? What does flying add to the game except making it harder to design a meaningful world?

Unless they're not, such as if flying speed was set the same as ground mount speed.

Yeah sure, bet that would be a popular change. Please, keep it in the realm of practical things.

Unless the zones and obstacles are actually there. Why do you assume that flying removes all obstacles? Go to Stormpeaks, or underground zones like Blackrock Mountain or Deepholme, and fill them with flying obstacles from my list above. Suddenly it's not just a "flat world" that isn't interesting, but instead a very diverse world with many different types of terrains and obstacles for all types of players.

What "obstacles" do storm peaks have? None. If you removed flying you could make the same zone, just with a bit less extremes in height and some slopes to get around. there is nothing in the zone that gets actually better with flying. On the contrary, the extreme heights are needed to keep the illusion of being high in spite off flying. With only riding, you can make zones feel much more mountain--ish without tem being so extreme.

TBC also had end-game daily quests that sent you to flying zones: Throne of Kil'Jaden, Ogri-la, Skettis.

TBC also introduces flying and ofc they designed some places around it. But honestly, if they actually believed flying was good then Quel'Danas wouldn#t be a no-fly zone.

No one is asking for flying during leveling.

So, you agree that no-flying during leveling is ok? Then what makes no-flying during world-questing not okß I fail to see why it suddenly becomes so important at max level.

You could never fly in ANY battleground.

I did not say you could.

Even Wintergrasp dismounted you once the battle started.

my poin exactly. They changed that some times, though. During some pathces you were +always* dsmounted in TW.

Timeless isle and Isle of Thunder came within the context of an ENTIRE EXPANSION of open world content where you could fly.[ They were the exception, not the rule!

I disagree. Blizzard clearly believed that the world was better experienced without flying. Thats why they made leveling no-flying. And thats why Isle of thunder and timeless isle were no-flying. Imho they only caved and added flying because the did not have the balls at the time to do their thing, which they eventually did in Draenor.

Draenor was a trainwreck of an open world and arguably a complete failure that cost the expansion half it's subscribers. I wouldn't use that as support for anything.

I do not believe no-flying was the cause for that. Draenor had many problems, and I did not play during dranor (wasn#t subbed). Not being able to fly had *nothing* to do with my decision not to play.

Unless it does because Blizzard takes the time to make it so.

Then tell, what does flying add to the game? it hasn#t added anything interesting for the whole time it was in the game. It hasn#t made the world any more interesting, quests any more interesting or helped me to experience anything interesting. being grounded on the other hand has done that. all those "remember he time when you accidentallypulled xyz" or things you can remember and lauch about for years to come. "Remember how a flew to only kill the one quest mod" isn#t an interesting story to tell.

I'm so sick of hearing these polarizing statement and bad logic excuses. You guys have bought so fully into this idea that flying is bad that other ideas don't even register to you. Your thinking is so stuck inside this no-flying box that Blizzard created in WoD and Legion that you can't see anything else.

And you are so stuck in your idea that flying makes the game better you canät even see that it doesn#t. In your whole post, you have trid to argue against my arguments 8which is fair), but you have not bought one single argument for flying. What does flying add? What problem does it solve? How does it make the game more interesting? So see nothing of that kind. Just the same old "but we want flying". Sure, I get it that you want flying. But for the hell of it, why?

[Okacz]

You get flying eventually, Jesus Christ.... It's not going anywhere.

Do you people listen to how stupid you sound "Blizzard are not releasing flying when I want them to! Thats it flying is dead! We're all gonna die, here comes the apocalypse, worries me, what a cruel world"

It's actually quite amusing, why do you people want flying like RIGHT NOW!!!! IS there some secret level that requires flying that you need to get to that we don't know about

Flying is a feature that used to be always released at the start of the expansion, after you dinged level cap. It was a good system that some people just want to go back to, seeing no reason why it should be changed into "wait for some time, we won't really tell you how long". Some people just like this feature enough to feel like something is held back for them.

Yeah, it's just a degree of convenience, but imagine what would happen if Blizzard once said "Mages won't be able to use portals and teleports at the beginning of the expansion, we will give them the ability back in a later patch". Mages forums would explode in whine and confusion - and flying is a feature that affects all classes at any time. So yeah, people still complain, because they hope Blizzard will stop with locking flying for X time every expansion.

[SirCowdog]

I have no issue with you wanting flying but I do have issue with you wanting things without 'needing' it.

We don't "NEED" hearths, portals, flight paths, gliding, or even reglar ground mounts. We should just have to walk everywhere because we don't "NEED" it. Does that make any sense? Of course not!