Ukrainian Farmers, Poised for Growth, Stumble After E.U. Deal

[Skulltaker]

Has the exact opposite effect on me.

Congratulations, you may consider yourself intelligent =)

[Deleted]

Penis envy. It's common to a lot of Slavs. Everything is everyone else fault, they are corrupt because they have been corrupted, they are poor because they have been robbed, they have no industry because brain drain, they have no infrastructure because all the aid they received was stolen by their politicians because the Germans failed to properly trace that money. Etc.

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This kind of obvious racism should be banned.

[caervek]

When your country joined the EU it was a third world ****hole, but again, your country is still a third world ****hole, just now you have free EU money to steal.

Technically speaking his county was allied with the USSR so it was a second world ****hole.

[Uzkin]

Yeah, who cares about sovereignty and jurisdiction these days?

I still believe Russia should have consulted the map before invading. It's not complicated, take a look:

Russia cares. As long as Ukraine was upholding democracy there was no legal grounds for Russia to accept Crimea's request for reunification. Russia respected this, and took no action. However, the moment the president was illegally ousted, Crimea was free to choose for themselves. And they did. The crimeans had no obligations towards the usurpers at Kiev.

If, for example, some pro-Russian task force had managed to successfully attack the White House during Obama's presidency and install some Sergei in his place, then the Californians wouldn't have had to obey this new illegitimate leadership. It would be perfectly justified under such circumstances for them to separate themselves from the Washington's rule. However, if the president is chosen according to the US law, as is the case with Trump, then the California CANNOT take law in their own hands.

[Cyberowl]

This kind of obvious racism should be banned.

Have you heard of hyperbole and caricature, lol.

It's like saying POC smoke weed a lot, it's not saying they are subhumans who should be put back on the leash.

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Russia cares. As long as Ukraine was upholding democracy there was no legal grounds for Russia to accept Crimea's request for reunification. Russia respected this, and took no action. However, the moment the president was illegally ousted, Crimea was free to choose for themselves. And they did. The crimeans had no obligations towards the usurpers at Kiev.

If, for example, some pro-Russian task force had managed to successfully attack the White House during Obama's presidency and install some Sergei in his place, then the Californians wouldn't have had to obey this new illegitimate leadership. It would be perfectly justified under such circumstances for them to separate themselves from the Washington's rule. However, if the president is chosen according to the US law, as is the case with Trump, then the California CANNOT take law in their own hands.

Can't you cross the border and live in the holy land? How you can even bring up lawful, legal grounds etc. is hilarious. What is lawful in other countries (for example Independence requests) is not determined by Russia.

[caervek]

The funny thing is, it's not like they (the Ukrainians) weren't warned. Their ex-president basically turned round and said sorry guys this EU deal isn't going to work, their demands are mental and we'd be shooting ourselves in the foot, Russia are offering a deal that's N times better so were going to go with theirs. Then they overthrew him in a coup and replaced him with somebody who would sign an EU deal. Any Ukrainian west of Donbass who is unhappy with how things have gone downhill since the EU deal only has themselves to blame!

NB: I'm not saying Yanukovych shouldn't have been ousted (though legally would have been better), just that it's pretty funny that he was right about the issue that saw him deposed

[Pannonian]

Russia cares. As long as Ukraine was upholding democracy there was no legal grounds for Russia to accept Crimea's request for reunification. Russia respected this, and took no action. However, the moment the president was illegally ousted, Crimea was free to choose for themselves. And they did. The crimeans had no obligations towards the usurpers at Kiev.

If, for example, some pro-Russian task force had managed to successfully attack the White House during Obama's presidency and install some Sergei in his place, then the Californians wouldn't have had to obey this new illegitimate leadership. It would be perfectly justified under such circumstances for them to separate themselves from the Washington's rule. However, if the president is chosen according to the US law, as is the case with Trump, then the California CANNOT take law in their own hands.

Now to give him credit, this is not Putins invention! This exact line of argumentation has already been used in history - when Hitler annexed the czech republic. So... that seems ok...

[Flarelaine]

I don't understand why some people from, say, Bulgaria, hate that much the Germans.

They hate the Germans that sell them good cars ? They prefer the Germans that get them in lost wars ?

Envy.

As a historical side note, Bulgaria actually came out from WWII with territorial gains and they escaped direct devastation by never even declaring war on the Soviets, claiming Slavic fraternity. The Soviets declared war on them on their way West, but they folded promptly.

[Uzkin]

Can't you cross the border and live in the holy land? How you can even bring up lawful, legal grounds etc. is hilarious. What is lawful in other countries (for example Independence requests) is not determined by Russia.

I wouldn't call Russia a holy land myself, but you're free to have your own opinion ofc. I think Finland is traditionally quite a bit better place to live in than Russia, although recently we have managed to harm our top-in-the-world standard of living quite a bit by joining the short-sighted and wrongful sanctions/propaganda war against Russia.

[caervek]

Now to give him credit, this is not Putins invention! This exact line of argumentation has already been used in history - when Hitler annexed the czech republic. So... that seems ok...

IIRC Hitler's argument for annexing Czechoslovakia was that there was an oppressed German minority there.

By contrast Crimea had an ethnic Russian majority, and Crimea as a whole had been trying to rejoin Russia ever since Ukraine took it over 20 years prior. After the coup while Ukraine was in disarray (and busy passing extra anti-Crimea legislation, great idea boys) they took their opportunity to escape and asked Russia for reunification.

[Deleted]

Have you heard of hyperbole and caricature, lol.

It's like saying POC smoke weed a lot, it's not saying they are subhumans who should be put back on the leash.

There was nothing suggesting he was joking. As for hyperbole I don't see it. He just seriously stated a whole ethnic group has a trait to complain a lot. Heck, I as a slav myself don't necessarily disagree. But the reason for my post was two things. The moderation here is quickly to infract you if you make similar comments about non-white races. And a lot of posters on this forum are the type to cry racism if you state you are against taking in refugees. There are definitely double standards going on here.

[Uzkin]

Can't you cross the border and live in the holy land? How you can even bring up lawful, legal grounds etc. is hilarious. What is lawful in other countries (for example Independence requests) is not determined by Russia.

Perhaps I should also comment that latter sentence of yours. Whenever something massively unconstitutional/illegal takes place in a country, it is up to the other countries to decide which actions/outcomes they recognize. The west chose to recognize the illegitimate usurpers as the new leaders of Ukraine, whereas Russia chose to recognize Crimea's right for self-determination under those circumstances (cf. my California example). The coup at Kiev was the illegal action which enabled all the follow-up events.

[Kremzy]

Ok, so first of all, I'm Ukrainian, and reading the posts some of these people publish makes me want to think that turning Russia into North Korea would be for the best. Some guys are literally writing the same stuff they get from the TV Russia Today or w/e. The Economy is shit here, because we have corruption at the highest branches of the government, and we're working on that, so whatever we do in our country is our problems not the EUs or Mordor(Russia). Secondly, Russia invaded. Period. Not supported, not assisted, but INVADED. If you look at the history of other "large" countries it's how they always handled inner problems. Government failing, people are unhappy, revolution might start... what to do... hm.. Let's invade our neighbour and tell the people it's all of US/Russia/Terrorists fault... surprise it works, why? because people are actually that stupid (not all of them but most). I have a lot of friends in Russia and US and Eu and all over the world, and war is started not by ordinary people, but by politicians and interested parties (who never suffer from it but gain profit), so let's not argue and whoever here has access to the Kremlin please bomb it, problem solved

[Pannonian]

IIRC Hitler's argument for annexing Czechoslovakia was that there was an oppressed German minority there.

By contrast Crimea had an ethnic Russian majority, and Crimea as a whole had been trying to rejoin Russia ever since Ukraine took it over 20 years prior. After the coup while Ukraine was in disarray (and busy passing extra anti-Crimea legislation, great idea boys) they took their opportunity to escape and asked Russia for reunification.

The procedure is essential. I wouldn't have that much of a problem if the crimean peninsula seceded from Ukraine, then voted on joining Russia - everything's fine, that's basic human rights.

Invading a country, then holding an election to proclaim: "see, everything's fine", is still an act of war, because Russia attacked Ukraine.

Also its not Russia place to define what is oppression, there are institutions for this. And i really don't want to have this as a role model, because it could endanger the integrity of my own country (given the protection of the EU thats unlikely), because with the same line of arguments, Germany could annex Austria by invading it (and already did)

[Mehrunes]

Russia cares. As long as Ukraine was upholding democracy there was no legal grounds for Russia to accept Crimea's request for reunification. Russia respected this, and took no action. However, the moment the president was illegally ousted, Crimea was free to choose for themselves. And they did. The crimeans had no obligations towards the usurpers at Kiev.

If, for example, some pro-Russian task force had managed to successfully attack the White House during Obama's presidency and install some Sergei in his place, then the Californians wouldn't have had to obey this new illegitimate leadership. It would be perfectly justified under such circumstances for them to separate themselves from the Washington's rule. However, if the president is chosen according to the US law, as is the case with Trump, then the California CANNOT take law in their own hands.

Considering how secession of Crimea as well as hypothetical secession of California are illegal, it's OK to commit illegal actions if others do it too? Amazing.

[rowaasr13]

Yeah, who cares about sovereignty and jurisdiction these days?

I still believe Russia should have consulted the map before invading. It's not complicated, take a look:

Go spew your shit about laws to ukronazi who firebombed then-ruling party offices and opposing people at roadblocks way back in December. Or to squares of jumping mob shouting "hang the moskovites". I still believe it should be a capital offense for people to install mound of shit called "Western Press" into their head instead of brain and post on Internet after that. It's not complicated, indeed.

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Just for a bit of nuance here.

http://www.economist.com/news/financ...ate-still-edge While things are still hard, it's not as apocalyptic as Cybran makes it out to be, especially not for a country that is effectively at war with Russia.

More bits and pieces.

Real wages in Ukraine grow by 7.2% in June

Read more on UNIAN: https://www.unian.info/economics/144...2-in-june.html

Ukraine posts $406 mln surplus in balance of payments in H1

Read more on UNIAN: https://www.unian.info/economics/144...nts-in-h1.html

Uh, man, small, but very important advice, find any REAL UKRAINIAN (look carefully, I'm not even writing "Russian") and ask him about his grown wages and income. Then please stick your articles where they belong. After talking to aforementioned Ukrainian you'll know where it is.

[Aggrophobic]

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/23/b...rade.html?_r=0



Europe refuses to open it's market to Ukraine and Russia closed it's market. After the fake protests all that is left is misery and poverty. Great job.

Whats your point? Ukraine is not in the EU so they don't have full access to the EU market.
You want them to join the EU then or?
You're a bit inconsistent, did you know that?

[caervek]

The procedure is essential. I wouldn't have that much of a problem if the crimean peninsula seceded from Ukraine, then voted on joining Russia - everything's fine, that's basic human rights.

They tried, Ukraine sent in the military, deposed the Crimean government, sacked the president, tore up the constitution and revoked all the laws guaranteeing Crimean Tatars equal rights.

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Whats your point? Ukraine is not in the EU so they don't have full access to the EU market.
You want them to join the EU then or?
You're a bit inconsistent, did you know that?

They can't join the EU, they'd get rejected.

[Mehrunes]

Perhaps I should also comment that latter sentence of yours. Whenever something massively unconstitutional/illegal takes place in a country, it is up to the other countries to decide which actions/outcomes they recognize. The west chose to recognize the illegitimate usurpers as the new leaders of Ukraine, whereas Russia chose to recognize Crimea's right for self-determination under those circumstances (cf. my California example). The coup at Kiev was the illegal action which enabled all the follow-up events.

The difference is that recognition of governments, even those created through a coup, is an established element of international law. Recognition of illegal referendums, not so much. Especially if you "recognize" such a referendum in a foreign territory you're already occupying, like Russia did. What exactly did they "recognize" to send soldiers to a region of another country prior to the act of self-determination that was the referendum?

[Flarelaine]

Go spew your shit about laws to ukronazi who firebombed then-ruling party offices and opposing people at roadblocks way back in December. Or to squares of jumping mob shouting "hang the moskovites". I still believe it should be a capital offense for people to install mound of shit called "Western Press" into their head instead of brain and post on Internet after that. It's not complicated, indeed.

Uh, man, small, but very important advice, find any REAL UKRAINIAN (look carefully, I'm not even writing "Russian") and ask him about his grown wages and income. Then please stick your articles where they belong. After talking to aforementioned Ukrainian you'll know where it is.

Butthurt much?

Your aversion to freedom of speech has been duly noted. It is not as unique on these boards these days as it should be, I fear.