Ret 31% haste?

[bigred]

Just out of curiosity what trinkets are you using?

for that fight i stuck with the scorpion trinket 870 (can't remember the exact name) and a 860 stat stick with haste. I might should have used my 840 FCM and the stat stick...may try some pulls with that combo.

[Goldenboy1]

for that fight i stuck with the scorpion trinket 870 (can't remember the exact name) and a 860 stat stick with haste. I might should have used my 840 FCM and the stat stick...may try some pulls with that combo.

Go with 840 FCM and Skopryons trinket for single target
Go with 860 Stat stick and Skorpryons trinket for hectic cleave/aoe

[Almondknight]

I'm sitting at 29% haste and 24% crit and it feels pretty nice. There is a small chance that you will have downtime, but it feels smooth all the way through the rotation / priority list. I'd say push for the 30-31% that most are getting, then focus on crit / vers as able to while going for that 4p!

[ThePants999]

Feels this, feels that. More rubbish.

Empty GCDs ("downtime") is what stops a rotation feeling "smooth", and haste doesn't affect that. It reduces the GCD by the same amount that it reduces the ability CDs, so if your rotation is X, Y, X, <nothing>, X at 0% haste, it'll be exactly the same at 50% haste, only faster.

[Deleted]

for that fight i stuck with the scorpion trinket 870 (can't remember the exact name) and a 860 stat stick with haste. I might should have used my 840 FCM and the stat stick...may try some pulls with that combo.

Does the scorpion trinket work on Krosus now?
I recall reading somewhere it doesn't hit him...

Feels this, feels that. More rubbish.

Empty GCDs ("downtime") is what stops a rotation feeling "smooth", and haste doesn't affect that. It reduces the GCD by the same amount that it reduces the ability CDs, so if your rotation is X, Y, X, <nothing>, X at 0% haste, it'll be exactly the same at 50% haste, only faster.

Not true. It will also increase your autoattack speed.
Why would that be a factor? See "Blade of Wrath" and what it does.

[Deleted]

Sim your upgrades, it's really that simple and a lot better than relying on blanket statements.

[MarshallX]

Sim your upgrades, it's really that simple and a lot better than relying on blanket statements.

20% haste is where it's at boys.

[dnicks17]

Does the scorpion trinket work on Krosus now?
I recall reading somewhere it doesn't hit him...

It's been fixed.

[Deleted]

Feels this, feels that. More rubbish.

Empty GCDs ("downtime") is what stops a rotation feeling "smooth", and haste doesn't affect that. It reduces the GCD by the same amount that it reduces the ability CDs, so if your rotation is X, Y, X, <nothing>, X at 0% haste, it'll be exactly the same at 50% haste, only faster.

How much is 20% of 1.5 seconds (GCD) and how much is 20% of 6 seconds, for example? I am inclined to disagree with that.

[ThePants999]

How much is 20% of 1.5 seconds (GCD) and how much is 20% of 6 seconds, for example? I am inclined to disagree with that.

With 0% haste, a 6sec CD is available every 4 GCDs. With 50% haste, your GCD is reduced to 1s, and the ability is reduced to 4s - or in other words, 4 GCDs. The rotation remains identical.

[Grusalugg]

From my sim and play experience. Haste has higher value on ST than haste on 2+ targets. Crit and Vers becomes more and more valuable as the target number increases. I tried to optimize my gear for each scenario with what I have in my bank/inv. I sit @19 haste on ST gear and 15 haste on 2+ targets.

I did many sims and tried on gameplay.

From what I've seen on what sim is dragging me to, I can say that general behavior is
On ST: Crit=Vers=>Haste>>>>>>>Mastery
On Cleave: Crit=Vers>>>Haste>>>>>>Mastery

Mastery's value diminishes as target number increases. You don't need sim for that tho, it's logic.

Tried to share my experience. Hope it helps in some way.

[Deleted]

With 0% haste, a 6sec CD is available every 4 GCDs. With 50% haste, your GCD is reduced to 1s, and the ability is reduced to 4s - or in other words, 4 GCDs. The rotation remains identical.

Well... not exactly, because now you have 2 more globals to fill with abilities in the same ammount of time. The judgment debuff isn't affected by haste either, so your judgment window can now include 2 more globals. Actually the biggest gain of haste is so you only have one global in wich your judgment debuff isn't up per cycle.

Though i must confess i'm surprised at the way it works, if your claims are correct. You'd think 50% haste would lower the cooldown of a 6 second ability to 3 seconds.

[ThePants999]

Well... not exactly, because now you have 2 more globals to fill with abilities in the same ammount of time.

But that's irrelevant to the rotation. You're doing the same sequence of abilities, just faster. If your sequence of abilities included an empty GCD, it still will. Ergo, no difference in "smoothness".

The judgment debuff isn't affected by haste either, so your judgment window can now include 2 more globals. Actually the biggest gain of haste is so you only have one global in wich your judgment debuff isn't up per cycle.

Aaaaaand if you look back at my first post in this thread, that's exactly what I said. We have specific haste breakpoints relating to our Judgment window. However, since there's one at very low haste and one at very high haste, it's basically irrelevant. Going from 15% haste to 30% haste won't change how many GCDs fit in the Judgment window.

Though i must confess i'm surprised at the way it works, if your claims are correct. You'd think 50% haste would lower the cooldown of a 6 second ability to 3 seconds.

No, that would need 100% haste. You divide the GCD/CD/cast time by 1+haste, i.e. 10% haste means divide by 1.1, 50% haste means divide by 1.5, 100% haste means divide by 2.

[Deleted]

But that's irrelevant to the rotation. You're doing the same sequence of abilities, just faster. If your sequence of abilities included an empty GCD, it still will. Ergo, no difference in "smoothness".


Aaaaaand if you look back at my first post in this thread, that's exactly what I said. We have specific haste breakpoints relating to our Judgment window. However, since there's one at very low haste and one at very high haste, it's basically irrelevant. Going from 15% haste to 30% haste won't change how many GCDs fit in the Judgment window.


No, that would need 100% haste. You divide the GCD/CD/cast time by 1+haste, i.e. 10% haste means divide by 1.1, 50% haste means divide by 1.5, 100% haste means divide by 2.

Basically we are in agreement. But theres still one point on the smootheness topic. That is that an empty global with less haste is longer than a global with more haste, thus leading to the feelings you dismissed on other people that the rotation feels smoother. Less dead time leads to people feeling this way.

[stolker]

I thought so. Thanks. I wish there was just a hard and fast rule: "25% haste and then do this"... but I know each character and sim is different. It'll all work out

If the people running the discord, silverhand.com etc. were any good at what they do they would seek an optimal character at a certain item level via stat overrides in sim craft, this would give you objective stat weights to pursue that you can chase when you reach that item level (of course, used such that your overall stat distribution matches the stat weights when you reached that item level). 'every sim is different' is true, but since stat weights are highly misleading for overall gearing (they are only partial derivatives of a function that depends on many variables, they don't consider synergies and breakpoints emerging at different levels of different stats for example) they should not be used for overall gearing - only 'in the moment' gearing (equipping what sims highest form the gear you have). In other words, if you just chase the highest value that simcraft stat prios give you when you sim with a new piece of gear, it's very likely that it will lead you down a suboptimal path of overall gearing (because there are many branching possibilities, and it's unlikely the stat priorities steer you in the correct one).

some spec spokespersons, such as the guys from howtopriest, know and do this, btw. but the people doing ret guides are for the most part retarded memers and attention whores who don't actually know what they're talking about that much.

[Dropakeg]

Oddly enough, I have about 30% crit and 18% haste, and simc still shows crit as my best secondary. What gives?

[ThePants999]

Oddly enough, I have about 30% crit and 18% haste, and simc still shows crit as my best secondary. What gives?

Depends on the fight conditions. What fight are you modelling? For sustained AoE, for example, crit is simply king - but, of course, not many fights actually look like that.

[Flynntard]

Uber jelly of the belt