Trump to change H1B visa program

[Detritivores]

Well it's the tech companies that abuse the system. Mark Zuckerberg was trying to get a bill passed that would triple the H1Bs.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/11/23/tech...reform/?iid=EL

Throw the doctors out with the bathwater, got it.

Shouldn't we ask ourselves why Mark Zuckerberg needs more foreign workers rather than demonizing him for it? How is it abuse of the system that he wants talened workers to come to his company? It's not like he's not paying the immigrants competitively. Could it be that we aren't producing people with the talent he needs? Could it be that our education system needs work? Not to worry. I'm sure Betsy fucking Devoss has answers.

[Dragoncurry]

The only right thing you said. How on earth is ending H1B visas ending the brain drain? lol

brain drain
ˈbrān ˌdrān/
noun[COLOR=#878787 !important]informal[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]

• the emigration of highly trained or intelligent people from a particular country.
  
  
  You're ending the emigration of highly trained or intelligent people from India to America.
  
  
  
  

[Wells]

For citizen candidates, don't conflate that with illegals and temporary foreign workers.

Yeah, I'm aware the goal post is moving, that's the point.

[Dragoncurry]

The only right thing you said.

So go back to my post and refute the argument that American companies exploit H1b in order to lower their labor expense while maintaining their productivity. Follow up point: This allows them to neglect domestic labor because such a pool exists.

[Cyberowl]

brain drain
ˈbrān ˌdrān/
noun[COLOR=#878787 !important]informal[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]

• the emigration of highly trained or intelligent people from a particular country.
  
  
  You're ending the emigration of highly trained or intelligent people from India to America.
  
  
  
  

Oops, thought you meant it would cause a brain drain from the US. >.>

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, I'm aware the goal post is moving, that's the point.

Not even trying to hide his shame.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

You mean, so ends the brain drain.

I guess that's a better way of putting it...end result the same...America gets dumber.

[PC2]

Yeah, I'm aware the goal post is moving, that's the point.

Nothing moved. You're taking comments about illegals out of context.

[tratra]

Well it's the tech companies that abuse the system. Mark Zuckerberg was trying to get a bill passed that would triple the H1Bs.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/11/23/tech...reform/?iid=EL

you do realize that an average employee on fb makes double the money of what anyone else in america makes yes? and with bonuses that skyrockets...

Also do you realize that its prolly harder to get a job with facebook in the tech rather than going to harvard.

[Dug]

Yes, I know. This is why no effort is made in investing in our graduates/schools. We have a pool of highly qualified, underpaid workers to select from.

Eh I'd say it's more of a work ethic issue. When I was dabbling in CS before moving to Environmental sciences out of 30 something students maybe one or two were worth a damn. Everyone else was just going through the motions, never bothering with internships or working on solo projects to build up their resume. I do however think it's not cool that companies can pay these foreign workers pennies compared to American workers and that really should be addressed but investing more into graduates/schools can't just magically make them give a damn about tech fields.

[Dragoncurry]

I guess that's a better way of putting it...end result the same...America gets dumber.

Only temporarily. You should not underestimate American youth. I think a lot of them feel helpless at the moment.

[Wells]

Nothing moved. You're taking comments about illegals out of context.

Oh horse shit. For literally decades every time people point out the nativist rhetoric from the right for what it is we're told no, "we don't have any problem with legal immigration". Well here we are. Cracking down on legal immigration.

The only context here is mouth foaming jingoism.

[Dragoncurry]

Eh I'd say it's more of a work ethic issue. When I was dabbling in CS before moving to Environmental sciences out of 30 something students maybe one or two were worth a damn. Everyone else was just going through the motions, never bothering with internships or working on solo projects to build up their resume. I do however think it's not cool that companies can pay these foreign workers pennies compared to American workers and that really should be addressed but investing more into graduates/schools can't just magically make them give a damn about tech fields.

Sure. I agree. I work in an environment now where myself (not an H1b) and a Chinese guy with a H1b does about 200x the work that the Americans do. I'm here mainly because I learn more from how much this guy knows about Excel and Systems analysis moreso than anyone else in any company, in my opinion, from a pure skillset POV.

That doesn't change that at one point, for the better of this country, we need to improve our productivity, and our base. If we have to fall behind the rest of the world first, that's a necessary change.

P.S. - He's underpaid by almost 20K due to that single fact.

[Wells]

Sure. I agree. I work in an environment now where myself (not an H1b) and a Chinese guy with a H1b does about 200x the work that the Americans do. I'm here mainly because I learn more from how much this guy knows about Excel and Systems analysis moreso than anyone else in any company, in my opinion, from a pure skillset POV.

That doesn't change that at one point, for the better of this country, we need to improve our productivity, and our base. If we have to fall behind the rest of the world first, that's a necessary change.

P.S. - He's underpaid by almost 20K due to that single fact.

[PC2]

Oh horse shit. For literally decades every time people point out the nativist rhetoric from the right for what it is we're told no, "we don't have any problem with legal immigration". Well here we are. Cracking down on legal immigration.

The only context here is mouth foaming jingoism.

How does this relate to H1B? Immigrants by definition come to live permantly in the new region. H1B is specifically a non-immigrant visa.

[Wells]

How does this relate to H1B? Immigrants by definition come to live permantly in the new region. H1B is specifically a non-immigrant visa.

Because it makes clear that the problem isn't the legality of their actions, its that they're the wrong people.

[Dragoncurry]

Snip

First - I don't know the source data behind that chart. What are you basing productivity on? Does this include only American citizens & GC holders?

Second - Are H1bs in this data set, driving productivity up, while keeping hourly compensation low? This may explain a piece of it.

Third - You would naturally expect productivity to rise as systems, tech and etc become more efficient.

For example, if it takes me 1 hr to process 5 orders, and we get a new system and I can now do 10 orders in an hr, I should not be paid more.


My claim regarding productivity is that a foreigner on an H1b can do 300 orders in an hour and you can pay him significantly less than an American who does 10 orders in an hour.

[Aggrophobic]

Bad for the US, good for the rest of the world when US tech companies are forced to leave the sinking ship.

[sarahtasher]

FTR, if you go on the other agitprop topic of the week, the riot at Berkeley, you will spot the same usual suspects violently advocating for closing Berkeley over this.

I really, really wonder what people means by STEM...With my Jedi powers, I have visions of people getting diplomas for for profit college in STEM fields (thus, pardon me, completely worthless pieces of paper) and being told that if only they could rid off of all the brown people, they would get a 100k job.

[Wells]

Its US nonfarm worker productivity. Pretty simple. BLS data.

My claim regarding productivity is that a foreigner on an H1b can do 300 claims in an hour and you can pay him significantly less than an American who does 10 claims in an hour.

A claim you haven't actually provided any data for.

[PC2]

Because it makes clear that the problem isn't the legality of their actions, its that they're the wrong people.

Temporary people are the wrong people, outside of short events like tourism.