Trump to change H1B visa program

[PC2]

@Skroe If your timeline is already at 2.5 years you are only 6 months from when re-election efforts startup. Your scheming sounds pretty close to just saying "win the next election".

[Skroe]

@Skroe If your timeline is already at 2.5 years you are only 6 months from when re-election efforts startup. Your scheming sounds pretty close to just saying "win the next election".

Democrats and anti-Trump moderates winning in the Midterms are a huge part of the plan, particularly in the house.

You do realize that if Republicans experience the average losses in the house that the party that holds the Presidency typically experience in their first mid-term, Paul Ryan will not be speaker anymore and Nancy Pelosi (a truly vile creature) will be? And while Democrats are at a huge disadvantage in the Senate in terms of pick-ups, many of those specific Democrats are popular in their states.

The mid-term election in other words, will be ESSENTIAL to removing Trump.

The next two years will be spent preparing the case. It will likely be (I think anyway) after the mid-terms, where Republicans lose control of the House (or control it in an even narrower majority) that impeachment begins.

You correct look out to the 2020 election shortly after. That's entirely the point. That's the "hard place" to the other effort's "rock". 2020 there will be many statehouses on the line, many Republicans (mirroring 2018 for Democrats) in the Senate. If Trump's Administration is disintegrating by the 2.5 year mark, the goal is to get House and Senate Republicans to look to jettisoning Trump, in favor of Pence, in a hope of winning (or mitigating losses), particularly because 2020 has another feature that plays in anti-Trump forces favor:

The Census and Redistricting.

The results of the 2010 census allowed Republicans to rewrite the map for the 2010s. If Republicans blow that opportunity in 2020, they'll be positioned for a structural disadvantage for the 2020s (much as the Democrats are today). That will matter more to them, individually, than Trump having another 4 years.

Broadly speaking, it's a multi-point pressure strategy. Republicans have zero loyalty to Trump and the alt-right, beyond the fact that he signs legislation they put before him. Pence can do that, with less complication. We must work to get them to realize that over time. Not now. But when everything is in place for them to end it.

[Felya]

I'm gonna go with him being delusional.

Why do you need to go with him? You seem to be doing a fine job with it on your own.

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I can't call it clairvoyance, as it predates my post saying this is the opposite of needs to be done by a few hours:

https://massie.house.gov/newsroom/pr...t-of-education

Rep. Massie Introduces Bill to Abolish Federal Department of Education

The people to direct your support or angst to:

Original co-sponsors include Rep. Justin Amash (R-MI), Rep. Andy Biggs (R-AZ), Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-UT), Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-FL), Rep. Jody Hice (R-GA), Rep. Walter Jones (R-NC), and Rep. Raul Labrador (R-ID).

[Caolela]

Very glad to see this. The H1B visa program was supposed to help companies fill high-skill positions with foreign workers, but only if there were no suitable domestic workers.

Instead, tech companies were exploiting the H1B visa program to replace $100k+ salary jobs with minimum wage foreign workers. Hell, the whole meme of 'must have 5 years experience in some obscure program and code language' derives from the fact that tech companies would make ridiculous demands because it was mandatory for them to make public job listings, which they only used to say "See! Nobody but Dinesh is qualified for this job!"

Meanwhile those poor H1B fuckers are splitting a 1 bedroom apartment 8 ways because it's the only way to survive in the Bay Area on an H1B wage.

All the while there are a hundred qualified domestic workers lining up for every position.

It's a lose-lose for everyone involved except the trillion dollar tech industry.

Exactly correct.

What they should do instead of picking on immigrants, or fucking American workers that are displaced by them is - go after employers that hire them.

Too many foreign workers coming in, taking too many Murcun jobs? Fine a company the first time and an official warning; large fine and lose business license/permit/incorporated status on the second offense. Shut them down and get serious. Go after the demand not the supply.

If someone from Mexico or India knows they won't get hired here, they probably won't make the trip.

Fat chance though, because the politicians have no balls to stand up to their benefactors.

[skitzin]

Well I will admit I wasn't familiar with this particular visa.

But google defined it as "The H-1B is a non-immigrant visa in the United States under the Immigration and Nationality Act, section 101(a)(15)(H). It allows U.S. employers to temporarily employ foreign workers in speciality occupations."

And to me that sounds like an easy system for companies to exploit for a whole host of reasons from getting your mates into the country to hiring people on lower wages to do the same job. I mean the data (from the Office of Foreign Labor Certification) I looked at showed a dominance of workers with Bachelor’s degrees among H1B visa workers. Which suggests that they are being brought in to substitute domestic labour rather than do any leading or cutting-edge innovation.

So from my perspective is that yes it does need changes to limit the use of this visa to those who are actually bringing something worth your time into the country. I'd start with getting quite specific about the job requirements.

[Felya]

Exactly correct.

What they should do instead of picking on immigrants, or fucking American workers that are displaced by them is - go after employers that hire them.

Too many foreign workers coming in, taking too many Murcun jobs? Fine a company the first time and an official warning; large fine and lose business license/permit/incorporated status on the second offense. Shut them down and get serious. Go after the demand not the supply.

If someone from Mexico or India knows they won't get hired here, they probably won't make the trip.

Fat chance though, because the politicians have no balls to stand up to their benefactors.

This isn't true at all. H1B has nothing to do with his "minimum wage foreign workers". It's bullshit hyperbole at best. I also don't think much of H1B comes from Mexico.

Having the balls to stand up to their benefactors, is to have a federally mandated curriculum in public education. You think it sucks that talent is being brought in at 60k, instead of 100k? How about having an education system, where you have the proficiency to do these jobs, regardless where employers choose to set up shop. That 100k job sounds a lot better if you can get it at 60k, immediately after Highschool.

Things like fighting competition by creating barriers, instead of raising up your people, is a race to the bottom. You know who is hurt when jobs that used to pay 60k now paying 100k +? Every single consumer... without increasing the bottom, justifying a near 3rd of the cost in a single area, will have a rippling effect. Because unlike a minimum wage hike, the increase wouldn't justify the increase in purchasing power. The solution to reducing cost of a demanded field, is to provide the supply... not increase cost of entry... that's shooting your self in the foot...

[Mihalik]

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/31/tech...ech-companies/

Another move by Trump to put Americans first is to end the H1B visa program. This will free up many good jobs, mostly in tech, and send many foreigners back.

#Americafirst

Yeah. No.

I'm pretty sure someone has said this somewhere, this will do very little or nothing to create more US jobs, what it WILL DO, is encourage companies to strategically resettle certain operations and offices to areas where they can guarantee the mobility of their employees.

Of course not all operations can be relocated or are worth relocating, but everything that can be relocated will be relocated and a lot of operations will now be worth relocating, something they weren't in the past.

I'm telling you this as a person running a industrial technologies company. I am not based in the US, but if I would be forced to hire local and local only, I'd spin off a number of areas like technical design and set up a subsidiary in a country with greater mobility, and in my case it's not even a question of wages, but a question of talent.

[Shadee]

Well I will admit I wasn't familiar with this particular visa.

But google defined it as "The H-1B is a non-immigrant visa in the United States under the Immigration and Nationality Act, section 101(a)(15)(H). It allows U.S. employers to temporarily employ foreign workers in speciality occupations."

And to me that sounds like an easy system for companies to exploit for a whole host of reasons from getting your mates into the country to hiring people on lower wages to do the same job. I mean the data (from the Office of Foreign Labor Certification) I looked at showed a dominance of workers with Bachelor’s degrees among H1B visa workers. Which suggests that they are being brought in to substitute domestic labour rather than do any leading or cutting-edge innovation.

So from my perspective is that yes it does need changes to limit the use of this visa to those who are actually bringing something worth your time into the country. I'd start with getting quite specific about the job requirements.

Exactly, it is a broken system which needs to be limited and will be. I don't understand the resistance to limiting it here unless everyone bitching about it are SJWs, on H1Bs, or just trolls.

[Caolela]

This isn't true at all. H1B has nothing to do with his "minimum wage foreign workers". It's bullshit hyperbole at best. I also don't think much of H1B comes from Mexico.

I didn't say only H1B, and I'm aware that H1B has more to do with higher paid areas, but I'm talking about in the aggregate. If there are too many foreign workers being hired, you should go after the employers in varying degrees. Hell, simply enforcing existing laws on the books would help.

Having the balls to stand up to their benefactors, is to have a federally mandated curriculum in public education. You think it sucks that talent is being brought in at 60k, instead of 100k? How about having an education system, where you have the proficiency to do these jobs, regardless where employers choose to set up shop. That 100k job sounds a lot better if you can get it at 60k, immediately after Highschool.

Things like fighting competition by creating barriers, instead of raising up your people, is a race to the bottom. You know who is hurt when jobs that used to pay 60k now paying 100k +? Every single consumer... without increasing the bottom, justifying a near 3rd of the cost in a single area, will have a rippling effect. Because unlike a minimum wage hike, the increase wouldn't justify the increase in purchasing power. The solution to reducing cost of a demanded field, is to provide the supply... not increase cost of entry... that's shooting your self in the foot...

Better education, sure, but not at the expense of ignoring the employers and their scamming the system. No reason both can't be dealt with except for the vested interests in the way. OTOH, many US companies (for the jobs that are left) don't want an educated populace, nor do the powers that be. They only need them to be smart enough to run their Wal-Marts and Burger Kings to make them millions, but not smart enough to know how to do anything about it. That also serves to justify their low wage race-to-the-bottom.

This has been happening since W and the changes to education then, which is focused not on teaching critical thinking skills and questioning authority but blind conformity, and teaching what to think instead of how to think. With Trump's Sec'y of Ed. privatization champion just being confirmed by only one vote, get ready for more of the same.

[skitzin]

Exactly, it is a broken system which needs to be limited and will be. I don't understand the resistance to limiting it here unless everyone bitching about it are SJWs, on H1Bs, or just trolls.

Yeah I don't know.

I guess people are just trying to fit this into their existing beliefs about Trump rather than try to understand the change and discuss the actual issues surrounding it.

[wunksta]

And in this field, no Americans are getting squeezed out of jobs.

Right and what were the Disney tech lawsuits about? Some of the people in these fields were being forced to train their replacements.
www.youtu.be/YSyRMtT0-sM

Some tech giants do have trouble meeting the demands and filling positions, but some companies have been exploiting H1B and I think it's disingenuous to say that it has never happened.

[Caolela]

I've said, repeatedly, it will take 2-2.5 years to get rid of Trump. That it will take a comprehensive strategy to destroy him and his Presidency AND to counter Bannon's strategy. It will take a strategy to beat a strategy.

Commendable taken on its face, but I don't think some of you have thought this out as well as you believe, (my emphasis and notes):

Donald Trump’s regime is rapidly reconfiguring the United States into an authoritarian state. All forms of dissent will soon be criminalized. Civil liberties will no longer exist. Corporate exploitation, through the abolition of regulations and laws, will be unimpeded. Global warming will accelerate. A repugnant nationalism, amplified by government propaganda, will promote bigotry and racism. Hate crimes will explode. New wars will be launched or expanded.

And, as this happens, those Americans who remain passive will be complicit.

“We don’t have much time,” Kali Akuno, the co-director of Cooperation Jackson and an organizer with the Malcolm X Grassroots Movement, told me when I reached him by phone in Jackson, Miss. “We are talking two to three months before this whole [reactionary] initiative is firmly consolidated. And that’s with massive resistance.”

Flurries of executive orders and memorandums are being issued to demolish the anemic remnants of our bankrupt democracy. Those being placed in power—such as Betsy DeVos*, who if confirmed as secretary of education will defund our system of public education and expand schools run by the Christian right, and Scott Pruitt, who if confirmed as head of the Environmental Protection Agency will dismantle it—are agents of destruction. In the eyes of the Christian fascists, generals, billionaires and conspiracy theorists around Trump, the laws, the courts and legislative bodies exist only to silence opponents and swell corporate profits. It is impossible to know how long this transformation will take—it may be longer than the two or three months Akuno fears—but unless we mobilize quickly to stop the Trump regime the end result is certain.

“The forces around Trump have a plan to roll this [attack on democracy] out,” said Akuno, who was the coordinator of special projects and external funding for the late Mayor Chokwe Lumumba in Jackson. “They have a strategy. They have a timeline. They know whom they need to divide and whom they need to recruit. They are consolidating their base. Those who try and chalk this up to Trump’s pathology miss the intentionality, the strategic aims and the objectives. We will do ourselves a great disservice if we underestimate this regime and where it is going.”

Stephen Bannon, the president’s chief counselor, was behind the ban on Muslims entering the United States from seven Muslim-majority countries—a ban you can expect to see extended if the Trump administration is successful in removing a stay issued by a district court. He was behind the order to the Department of Homeland Security to draw up lists of Muslim organizations and individuals in the United States that, in the language of the executive action, have been “radicalized” and have “provided material support to terrorism-related organizations in countries that pose a threat to the United States.” Such lists will be used to criminalize Muslim leaders and the institutions and organizations they built. Then, once the Muslims are dealt with domestically, there will be new Homeland Security lists that will allow the government to target the press, activists, labor leaders, dissident intellectuals and the left. It is the beginning of a fascist version of Leon Trotsky’s “permanent revolution.”

“Lenin wanted to destroy the state, and that’s my goal too,” Bannon told writer Ronald Radosh in 2013. “I want to bring everything crashing down, and destroy all of today’s establishment.”

The Trump regime’s demented project of social engineering, which will come wrapped in a Christianized fascism, can be implemented only if it quickly seizes control of the bureaucratic mechanisms, an action that Max Weber pointed out is the prerequisite for exercising power in industrial and technocratic societies. Once what the historian Guglielmo Ferrero calls the “silken threads” of habit, tradition and legality are gone, the “iron chains” of dictatorship will impose social cohesion.

“This problem is not going to be solved in the 2018 elections,” warned Akuno,... “That hope is an illusion. The democratic apparatus will be completely gutted by then. We have to look beyond Trump. We have to look at the consolidation on the state level of these reactionary forces. They are near the threshold of being able to call for a constitutional convention because of the number of governorships and state legislatures where they hold both chambers. They can totally reorder the Constitution, if they even continue to abide by it, which they may not. We are facing a serious crisis. I don’t think people grasp the depth of this because they are focused on the president and not the broader strategy of these reactionary forces.” ...http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/...nable_20170205

*DeVos has been confirmed by 51-50 vote. - Cao

If any of this is true, then you'd better ramp up your efforts and shoot for a much shorter timeline, unless you have ulterior motives for not doing so. To be very candid, coming from you, Skrew, and the utter hogwash I've seen you post for the past year or so during Clinton's run, I personally wouldn't trust you as far as I could throw 14 elephants.

We've seen how quickly Trump & Co. have moved so far. It isn't going to take 2+ years for them to revert the U.S. to some version of 1930s Germany or Italy.

[skitzin]

Some tech giants do have trouble meeting the demands and filling positions, but some companies have been exploiting H1B and I think it's disingenuous to say that it has never happened.

Wil the H1B covering roles such as:

- Occupations In Computer System User Support,
- Occupations In Computer System Technical Support, and
- Other Computer-Related Occupations.

Most of these roles are covered by most Computer Science degrees and include levels of those roles that don't even need a degree really.

You cannot tell me with a straight face that these companies are trying particularly hard to find local hires.

[Mormolyce]

More than 100 companies join legal fight against Trump travel ban

America's biggest tech firms have stepped into the legal fight against President Donald Trump's travel ban.
A total of 127 companies -- including Apple (AAPL, Tech30), Facebook (FB, Tech30), Google (GOOGL, Tech30), Intel (INTC, Tech30), Microsoft (MSFT, Tech30), Netflix (NFLX, Tech30) and Twitter (TWTR, Tech30) -- filed court papers declaring that Trump's executive order on immigration "violates the immigration laws and the Constitution." The wave of opposition came in two court filings, one on Sunday and one on Monday.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/02/05/tech...ex.html?iid=EL

But who's going to listen to those failing losers, right?

Funniest one - Twitter.

Temporary foreign workers don't become vested in the region. They are not ideal.

My head hurts.

You know we're talking about skilled labour here? Not apple pickers? You know there is aggressive competition in the world economy for this kind of labour?

Whatever, you want to scupper your country's competitiveness in tech I'm sure the rest of the world won't stop you.

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@Skroe If your timeline is already at 2.5 years you are only 6 months from when re-election efforts startup. Your scheming sounds pretty close to just saying "win the next election".

Look around you, the election season never ended.

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If you must know PrimaryColor, the goal is to get five words out in the open that are the same ones that destroyed Nixon: a phone call from Senior House and Senate Republicans with these 5 words used in it: "We will not protect you.". Nixon knew the jig was up, and he departed shortly after. Trump will do the same.

I dunno about that. Nixon was an actual politician, he understood the long term damage he was doing to the Republican Party and stepped down to save them from it.

Trump is unlikely to understand or care, and he has zero loyalty to the party.

So IMO he wouldn't quietly disembark, the Republicans would have to make him walk the plank.

If it does in fact come to that. The alternative of course is that every day of the next four years is Trump doing irreparable damage to the Republican Party. Personally I call that karma.

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That's just more lies from the liberal media.

Hahahahaha!

Okay I get it, you're a liberal running a satire account.

[Omega10]

Temporary foreign workers don't become vested in the region. They are not ideal.

I work with a lot of these "temporary foreign workers". They ARE vested in our region - if anything on a local level they are more active than "real Americans". While there are a lot of reasons to bash the people that I work with, this is not one of the better arguments. Well it is down right false. One thing that the H1B program does well it that it does a good job of bringing in very good people over here to work. They work hard, they are extremely moral and nice and friendly, and they are very competent. And they most definitely DO participate in our community in a positive way.

[mcgillimmigrationlaw]

Hello Friends.......
I am new here. I want to join this community to know about H1B visa.

Thanks.....

[Ryme]

Trying to turn the tide of globalism at this point is going to ineffective at best but at worst it works and you're left severely behind the nations that embraced it.

I don't like globalism, but let's face the reality of the situation here, it's easily used as a highly efficient engine of progress. Countries should be looking toward how they can best make use of this engine to the sum benefit of their nation, not shut it out entirely.

[minteK917]

People whining about globalization while using the biggest globalization platform to ever exist. Irony is just lost on people.

[Mekh]

People whining about globalization while using the biggest globalization platform to ever exist. Irony is just lost on people.

They'd probably prefer national webs too.

[Nadiru]

People whining about globalization while using the biggest globalization platform to ever exist. Irony is just lost on people.

Internet is purely voluntary association, which makes it a different beast than any immigration or visa program to exist or be modified in the US.