Rerolling for AotHG/DoG legs

[Aphotophilic]

So to start off, I've been playing my DH since they were released pre-xpac. Since then, I've put 20 days game time at max lvl. I raid with a semi hardcore group and sometime join some friends in their mythic raiding guilds. With that being said, I need some more emphasis on ST to stay on par with them. The more I play though I find it frustrating to have to compete with DH's 10+ Equipped ilvls under me. That being said, the diminishing returns on leg drops is causing me to toss around the idea of just Rerolling another DH. I've seen first hand how in the time it takes to get another leg, I could already have another toon to ilvl ~870 with 2 legs, I've already done it twice ffs. So in you alls opinion, would it be worth it? I already know the class like the back of my hand and enjoy playing it, I just wanna be able to contribute more to my guild as a progression dps.

[Rankstar]

As a 3/10 mythic DH with bad lego's ive also considered this.

however blizzard then cucks you again by making you reroll a 2nd DH on a different server as your capped to one per server. SO even if you do get good lego's on your second DH you will have to pay to xfer it to your main server and delete your current main.

absolutely aids.

[Raiju]

From the content you're doing it sounds like you absolutely do not need to reroll for legendaries to compete with their respective rosters. Do it if you want to, but you'd do just as well practising. Legendaries will push you into the top percentiles from 9X's, but they will not push you to the top percentiles from say, 7X's, or even 8X's.

Rerolling will also give you a bigger gear disparity with no guarantee you will get better legendaries, or even get them quickly. By the general standard I should have 5 legendaries but currently have 3.

[Extremity]

How many do you have? Two? In the time that you gear up another toon to be equal with your current DH, you probably would have gotten another legendary anyways. Plus, what's the limit now before you have a reduced chance? Four legendaries? Five? I can't remember if they removed that entirely or bumped the cap.

Tons of people have bad luck with the legendary drops, you are far from alone. Just keep at it. The ring is not the must-have item it was before; it's certainly still good, but since the nerf it's by no means an item you're screwed without. I don't have the belt, and Demon Hunters with less gear than me are able to keep up because of that ONE item. It's frustrating, I hate it, but I'll get it eventually.

[Killface1]

I donno if thats the faster option, but as somebody who has AotHG and is in a guild with a DH that has DoG + convergence + Artifact relic, I can for sure say this: the difference is huge, you're not overstating it, its absolutely fucking ridiculous that blizzard will not allow people to craft/obtain their most wanted legendaries other than RNG, and its insanely frustrating.

I produce about 20% more fury than demon hunters without the ring do. Thats a monster of a difference, especially since I'm pretty much never hitting dead spots in my rotation during burst. He gets meta exactly every 2 minutes, which is equally huge. If you dont have one of those legendaries you're about 10% damage down on the people that do.

I didn't get AotHG until recently, and I agree its insanely frustrating. That fury gen should be baseline, damage should be balanced around it, and such a legendary shouldn't exist.

Edit: or, conversely, rather than scrapping the whole legendary system, keep these huge legendary upgrades in there and scrap (some) of the RNG about it and give people tokens to get whatever legendaries they want.

[Deleted]

I produce about 20% more fury than demon hunters without the ring do. Thats a monster of a difference, especially since I'm pretty much never hitting dead spots in my rotation during burst. He gets meta exactly every 2 minutes, which is equally huge. If you dont have one of those legendaries you're about 10% damage down on the people that do.

This guy is simply pulling numbers out of his ass. Using the standard NH M gear profile in simc we have this scenario:


First of all, we see that the ring compared to no legendary at all is roughly a 6.2% increase, but compared to another 940 legendary (sephuz in this case) its only a 4% increase.

With the ring we see 17.7 fury spent per second and with sephuz we se 15.6, which is roughly 13% more fury.

For those wondering, yes the sim is using meta when its up and syncing it with chaos blade in the shoulder build (it has on average 130 seconds cd, 126 with shoulders+ring).

Here is a comparison for 2 legendaries combined, we see the difference still being below 10%


So if you'd like to reroll for the chance of getting 4% additional damage then all power to you, but farming +15 m+ is gonna net you more overall damage than rerolling for the time spent.

[Rankstar]

This guy is simply pulling numbers out of his ass. Using the standard NH M gear profile in simc we have this scenario:


First of all, we see that the ring compared to no legendary at all is roughly a 6.2% increase, but compared to another 940 legendary (sephuz in this case) its only a 4% increase.

With the ring we see 17.7 fury spent per second and with sephuz we se 15.6, which is roughly 13% more fury.

For those wondering, yes the sim is using meta when its up and syncing it with chaos blade in the shoulder build (it has on average 130 seconds cd, 126 with shoulders+ring).

Here is a comparison for 2 legendaries combined, we see the difference still being below 10%


So if you'd like to reroll for the chance of getting 4% additional damage then all power to you, but farming +15 m+ is gonna net you more overall damage than rerolling for the time spent.

^^ This.

As someone with pyrdaz and bracers, I frequently beat the other DH in our raid on ST who uses AOTHG and prydaz. There is a difference, but it is minimal. Legendaries are just a crutch that bad players lean on.

And even so, my guild members all recognize that my dps is higher then a fellow DH with ring..

[Ysho]

I would question the intelligence of anyone who would consider rerolling the same toon with that much time invested. If you have a bunch of crap legendaries then you are more likely to get the one you want next time. Vs thowing away all your gear, earned AP, and essentially starting you back on the path of getting more crap legendaries. I can't even.

[Extremity]

I'd like to say that after clearing raid tonight and using the ring, I was Fury starved for pretty long amounts of time on almost every fight. It happens to everyone, ring or not. That's RNG. A ring adding 1-8 on DB procs can be just as unlucky. Getting 1 Fury added to each one for multiple hits in a row can happen. You're really not going to change your playstyle or notice any incredible difference with or without the ring. Over time, sure; per-fight, though, you'll still have times that you feel like you've got no Fury.

I had attempts where for the entire fight my crit rate was 15% lower than it should have been. I was #1 on Guldan until the last 5% or so when I dropped to #2. Great attempt. On fights before that, I barely stayed in the top ten. On the same fight, two different attempts, I got #1 and #7. We rely on tons of RNG; it sucks but it's how it is. Rerolling and hoping for a quicker ring is going to do more damage than good when you have to gear up again. You're not missing out on any tremendous difference. It's nice and it helps, for sure, but it's not going to make or break your toon. At all.

[Shadroz]

The APL for Havoc in Simcraft is wrong/broken for the reduced cooldown on Meta. The shoulders + convergence + relic + AoTHG is miles ahead of any other combination we have. 2 minute meta. Synced with chaos blades and Nemesis. It's borderline broken.

[Adoxe]

You're not hardcore enough to benefit from 4% increase that much. If you were in a top 10 guild, sure, but this is completely unnecessary. Your decision though.

[Littlepwny]

The APL for Havoc in Simcraft is wrong/broken for the reduced cooldown on Meta.

In what sense?

[Deleted]

The APL for Havoc in Simcraft is wrong/broken for the reduced cooldown on Meta. The shoulders + convergence + relic + AoTHG is miles ahead of any other combination we have. 2 minute meta. Synced with chaos blades and Nemesis. It's borderline broken.

No its not, did you even read my post? I literally said it uses meta on almost a 2 min cooldown, you have to remember that to get meta down to 2 minutes you are losing out on a lot of things:

A critical chaos relic
A trinket slot (so around 1.2K secondary stats)
Another legendary effect

So every meta you do with that build is signifcantly weaker than every one you would do with the standard build, making it a lot less lucrative than it appears. The shoulders are very aptly named for this reason, "Delusion of Grandeur"

[Accendor]

I'd like to say that after clearing raid tonight and using the ring, I was Fury starved for pretty long amounts of time on almost every fight. It happens to everyone, ring or not. That's RNG. A ring adding 1-8 on DB procs can be just as unlucky. Getting 1 Fury added to each one for multiple hits in a row can happen. You're really not going to change your playstyle or notice any incredible difference with or without the ring. Over time, sure; per-fight, though, you'll still have times that you feel like you've got no Fury.

Not the ring alone, but Ring +2 set +4 set is such a huge difference in the playstyle. I know it, I tried it.

[actiwe]

I already have the belt as my 2nd leg and got ring as 4th, I would probably have quitted/rerolled if I didn't have either of them. The legendaries of this expansion has been so aids

[Shirofune]

This guy is simply pulling numbers out of his ass. Using the standard NH M gear profile in simc we have this scenario:


First of all, we see that the ring compared to no legendary at all is roughly a 6.2% increase, but compared to another 940 legendary (sephuz in this case) its only a 4% increase.

With the ring we see 17.7 fury spent per second and with sephuz we se 15.6, which is roughly 13% more fury.

For those wondering, yes the sim is using meta when its up and syncing it with chaos blade in the shoulder build (it has on average 130 seconds cd, 126 with shoulders+ring).

Here is a comparison for 2 legendaries combined, we see the difference still being below 10%


So if you'd like to reroll for the chance of getting 4% additional damage then all power to you, but farming +15 m+ is gonna net you more overall damage than rerolling for the time spent.

Nobody can deny the ring is a 5% DPS increase, though. At least for me it is (replacing Sephuz for Aothg, can link sims). That's a tier set bonus damage increase. Also halves the waiting time.

It's still RNG. Sure, you can fight without it, but you're fighting at a disadvantage.

I wouldn't reroll tho, Legion is a bitch for any kind of alt/reroll.

[Killface1]

Well, I donno how important this is to me to fight over it. I'm relating my experience with numbers based on real life testing and in logs. It's a smaller sample size than the hundreds of thousands of iterations simcraft can do for sure, and if you want to take issue with that its fine, but I'm not pulling numbers from my ass, because we've been looking at this specific number for the past 3 weeks and laughing about it constantly. I have 1% more crit than him and 2% less haste, and the only other difference is the ring, and on average I've been producing 20-30% more fury than him on every single boss. His numbers seem to reflect other demon hunters without the ring.

I think arguing that simcraft is more accurate than reality is pretty silly though, and I think being super antagonistic and saying "this guy is talking out of his ass" is pretty hostile for no reason.

Also, as so much of our damage is frontloaded into our burst phases, where we typically have bloodlust rolling and were meleeing faster, having 20% more fury over the course of the fight doesn't mean people with the ring are going to do 20% more damage over the course of the fight - that just isn't how that relationship works. It means you might get a few extra annihilation's off, but mostly it means you'll get more chaos strike damage which is typically the dead spot in our damage anyway. People with ring are just less feast or famine, and our baseline damage without cooldowns is higher.

Anyway, arguing over this shit by somebody being a dick isn't really how I want to spend my time, I'll continue to trust WCL stats over simcraft and to only use simcraft to get a rough idea of stat priorities, and you use simcraft as the gospel of christ, and we can each be happy in our own bubbles.

[Deleted]

Well, I donno how important this is to me to fight over it. I'm relating my experience with numbers based on real life testing and in logs. It's a smaller sample size than the hundreds of thousands of iterations simcraft can do for sure, and if you want to take issue with that its fine, but I'm not pulling numbers from my ass, because we've been looking at this specific number for the past 3 weeks and laughing about it constantly. I have 1% more crit than him and 2% less haste, and the only other difference is the ring, and on average I've been producing 20-30% more fury than him on every single boss. His numbers seem to reflect other demon hunters without the ring.

I think arguing that simcraft is more accurate than reality is pretty silly though, and I think being super antagonistic and saying "this guy is talking out of his ass" is pretty hostile for no reason.

Anyway, arguing over this shit by somebody being a dick isn't really how I want to spend my time, I'll continue to trust WCL stats over simcraft and to only use simcraft to get a rough idea of stat priorities, and you use simcraft as the gospel of christ, and we can each be happy in our own bubbles.

I didnt say the guy was 100% incorrect, i said his numbers were off and proved it in simcraft. Well if you'd like to not trust simcraft then fine, lets look at the top logs of M krosus. At the time of writing there is 7 parses in the top 50 that doesnt have the ring (one of them being 4:th).

Obviously someone would do more dps with the ring than without it, but saying its mandatory and everybody without it should reroll is incorrect, because you can definitely do good and competitive damage without it.

Also, if you find a fault with simcraft feel free to report it, they're usually pretty quick about fixing things that are incorrect.

[Shadroz]

No its not, did you even read my post? I literally said it uses meta on almost a 2 min cooldown, you have to remember that to get meta down to 2 minutes you are losing out on a lot of things:

A critical chaos relic
A trinket slot (so around 1.2K secondary stats)
Another legendary effect

So every meta you do with that build is signifcantly weaker than every one you would do with the standard build, making it a lot less lucrative than it appears. The shoulders are very aptly named for this reason, "Delusion of Grandeur"

I spoke to Wordup in my guild about this the other night. I received two Meta CDR relics. After using the second one, my dps dropped 25k or so in Simcraft, even after gaining weapon ilvls. He explained to me that the APL is incorrect for Meta with relics and CDR. I am going to trust him over you.

Logically speaking, the shoulders, combined with a Meta CDR relic and convergence and AoTHG, is BiS on longer fights. Meta, when combined with chaos blades and nemesis, increases damage so significantly that I can't see belt or trinket even coming close, especially when fights are long enough to gain 1-3 extra Metas.

Technically you aren't "losing out on another legendary effect". Yes you're missing out on 6% chaos crit strike damage, and a little bit of second stats, but you're gaining 2 minute Metas, not just 2 minute Metas, but 2 minute Metas ALIGNED with CB/NEM.

Fights with shorter duration gain less benefit, true, so maybe belt/ring or trinket/ring are better choices in those scenarios, but a lot of the fights in Nighthold are 6+ minutes, where the setup will truly shine. Gul'dan being a prime example, 16 minutes on Mythic.

[Enentari]

I'm siming 30k more dps on a 5 min fight with shoulders, cof, ring and meta relic than ring + belt + angrboda.

The cost seems huge, but is not that much. You just need a couple of stars to align to make it works ^^

Oh and don't forget you ALWAYS get an extra meta with these, unless the fight is shorter than 2 min.