Barely any dps gain from unholy tier bonuses?

[Maxweii]

Your reference is a month old. Unholy DK is bottom of the pile at the moment

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11/

Linking mythic when it's only a few weeks in

[Deleted]

Linking mythic when it's only a few weeks in

but thats when it count doesnt it ? who cares about dps charts when the bosses are on farm ?

[bungie]

but thats when it count doesnt it ? who cares about dps charts when the bosses are on farm ?

No, the p value is too large because the sample size is too small.

[Deleted]

Or you can just play UH in mythic and realize yourselves that it´s behind by a decent margin. Not on all bosses, but on most.
And more importantly UH sucks on priority target dmg.

The thing is, UH is not even terrible. The data is probably skewed, because most players already switched to frost.
However, in an instance were melee classes dominate the meters, UH is the only melee spec that isn´t capable of topping any fights.

[Shadowman 747]

Baseline unholy has problems with resource overcapping. 3 spec specific legendaries offer resource generation. The 4piece offers resource generation.

Ultimately what the 4piece offers is reduced reliance on Festering Strike. You start going for GCD efficiency over resource effeciency because there is no way to effectively spend faster than you build while playing around Scourge. Essentially it turns the spec into spamming Death Coil until Scourge proc, then dump Claws until the duration runs. You pretty much only FS once after Scourge ends and you have less than 4 wounds and less than 95 runic power. that's about it.

Ultimately this results in a higher mastery contribution, as a higher percentage of UH's damage becomes shadow, as you cast FS less. It's not a very strong contribution, however.

The spec is basically broken until they drop the GCD to 1s so we can spend the absurd amount of resources we're given.

[Adlian]

The spec is basically broken until they drop the GCD to 1s so we can spend the absurd amount of resources we're given.

That's what i'm talking from awhile. The whole rotation feels so much better when my GCD is around 0.8-1sec, once heroism + soul reaper buffs are gone i start getting over capped with runes or RP.

And we would lose all purpose in having haste again. Bad idea.

Haste increase rune regen + pet attacks (more wounds if IC is selected, more runes with pet ring). Guess it wont be that usless? Also the 1sec GCD + some kind of dmg buff can be used as a band aid fix for the current tier. More changes in 7.2.

[Deleted]

Incoming unholy might 10% ;(

[Deleted]

I seriously wish I felt over capped all the time, I don't btw, which I've mentioned before. I find the 4-set pretty unpredictable and there are times when I gamble to proc a festering with DC so that I can cast my SR - Apocalypse combo. The spec can feel gloriously fluid but there are times it feels clunky and you're having to hold back using some abilities because some important CDs are about to reset and you need resources to use them effectively.

[Maxweii]

but thats when it count doesnt it ? who cares about dps charts when the bosses are on farm ?

world first comps are not indicative of what actually goes on in raiding. When for example Gul'dan has only one kill that makes any spec that was in for that kill propped up on an overall view, and then anything not in much much lower because they have a fat zero on their score for a boss.

That's what i'm talking from awhile. The whole rotation feels so much better when my GCD is around 0.8-1sec, once heroism + soul reaper buffs are gone i start getting over capped with runes or RP.



Haste increase rune regen + pet attacks (more wounds if IC is selected, more runes with pet ring). Guess it wont be that usless? Also the 1sec GCD + some kind of dmg buff can be used as a band aid fix for the current tier. More changes in 7.2.

It used to do all of that before, and was entirely useless for the most part. The GCD reduction is one of the main reasons we enjoy haste to where we take it now, as the 21% haste is just a good feeling point for rotational flow.

[Mosin]

No, the p value is too large because the sample size is too small.

I think we have enough sample to show that we don't scale with gear from EN to NH, and mythic NH is just another additional case of showing how further behind we fall as we gear up.

[Deleted]

I think we have enough sample to show that we don't scale with gear from EN to NH, and mythic NH is just another additional case of showing how further behind we fall as we gear up.

It´s not the gearing though. Secondary and primary stat scaling of Unholy is pretty good. Infact it´s better than for frost, hence UH would at some theoretical but unreachable gearing point outscale frost.

The problem is the shit set bonuses, combined with bad legendaries and generally low single target damage to start out with.

[Maxweii]

I think we have enough sample to show that we don't scale with gear from EN to NH, and mythic NH is just another additional case of showing how further behind we fall as we gear up.

Two weeks of inconsistent and flawed data (lack of Unholy logs on some bosses presents big zeros which drives us down) is far from being anything close to a representation of scaling.

[Saltysquidoon]

Two weeks of inconsistent and flawed data (lack of Unholy logs on some bosses presents big zeros which drives us down) is far from being anything close to a representation of scaling.

(I'm quoting this post because it's you latest post although I'm not going to be speaking to it directly just more your stance on this on the whole).

Most top 200 guilds are going to be 9/10 (10/10) this week and the top 1000 guilds with be 9/10(10/10) (and lets be clear here outside of the top 1000 it doesn't matter what you play and 1000 is stretching it) inside 2 months like at what point is it ok to say unholy is terrible for prog? I don't know if you're just being facetious on the forums or you legitimately believe there's some hidden break point where unholy is going to start popping off.
I personally think at this point its a safe bet to say NH unholy under performing right now, unholy is the only spec in the game right now that still hasn't matched the 650K mark on krosus which is the 'minimum' dps you need for that fight.

I notice you tend to be glib but also quite careful with your wording when you post so I'm going to ask you straight out; Do you think unholy is performing adequately right now?

[Mosin]

Two weeks of inconsistent and flawed data (lack of Unholy logs on some bosses presents big zeros which drives us down) is far from being anything close to a representation of scaling.

Then you will never get your answer, because UH will be under-represented throughout the raid.
Those very few who play UH on mythic are telling me the same story. We do about 75%~80% of others on single target DPS when similarly geared. With big fat DPS wall blocking NH, we will be the least favored one on the team.

Moreover, we aren't looking at 2 weeks of data. We have 6 months of it telling us that we fall behind as we progress, and we are searching for exceptions that would suggest CS buff may have changed something, which doesn't seem likely.

[bungie]

Then you will never get your answer, because UH will be under-represented throughout the raid.
Those very few who play UH on mythic are telling me the same story. We do about 75%~80% of others on single target DPS when similarly geared. With big fat DPS wall blocking NH, we will be the least favored one on the team.

Moreover, we aren't looking at 2 weeks of data. We have 6 months of it telling us that we fall behind as we progress, and we are searching for exceptions that would suggest CS buff may have changed something, which doesn't seem likely.

The changes to 7.1.5 changed how unholy gears entirely, changed how secondary stats work, changed it so that pet does shadow damage and scales with mastery. That invalidates the data from before 7.1.5.

[Maxweii]

Then you will never get your answer, because UH will be under-represented throughout the raid.
Those very few who play UH on mythic are telling me the same story. We do about 75%~80% of others on single target DPS when similarly geared. With big fat DPS wall blocking NH, we will be the least favored one on the team.

Moreover, we aren't looking at 2 weeks of data. We have 6 months of it telling us that we fall behind as we progress, and we are searching for exceptions that would suggest CS buff may have changed something, which doesn't seem likely.

Part of people not playing Unholy is they jumped ship to Frost for the marginally more damage it did in 7.1, leaving them at a point with more traits in their frost weapons as well as frost legendaries. People who had better Unholy legendaries stayed, or in general people who didn't believe that a very marginal damage difference was reason enough to swap. Just like Frost was underrepresented in 7.0, give it time and more Unholy logs will come in. That is obvious.

The below comment addresses your second part. Nothing before 7.1.5 matters, we got huge buffs overall, legendary changes, talent changes, complete different gearing now. Anything pre-7.1.5 isn't relevant now.

The changes to 7.1.5 changed how unholy gears entirely, changed how secondary stats work, changed it so that pet does shadow damage and scales with mastery. That invalidates the data from before 7.1.5.

[Mercane]

Max you can admit that Frost is severely out performing Unholy right now, it's okay man.

[bungie]

Max you can admit that Frost is severely out performing Unholy right now, it's okay man.

I don't think he needs to admit to it. We all can look at WCL and see how the only fight (which isn't even mythic) that Unholy excels at it is a cheese strat meme boss (Skorpy Ron). We can also just look at the stats for across the instance for heroic at the 95 percentile, Frost is first, Unholy is near to dead last.

HOWEVER. With the right gear/legendaries/skill and considering not many of us are playing in top 50 guilds in the world playing unholy is fine if you are really good. Because chances are your raid group has some bads that you are pretty than even while playing one of the worst performing specs in the game.

[Slim1256]

Here you go:

What's your take on this log?:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...&view=rankings

That's the number one UH DK parse on M Krosus. He's beaten by an assassination rogue that is 7 ilvls lower, and parsed 39th percentile.

Is Unholy OK?

[Deleted]

I don't know, personally i dropped ~890 items for 875 set items and i got overall like 40-50k sim DPS, and that is also reflected in actual fights. Bracers + Trinket for me. Both 2pc aswell as 4pc were around 20k+, despite losing better stats and strenght.