Boomkin Single target dps

[Liandryl]

This post is not about ranting for more buff etc...
I just wanna know the opinion of good boomkin (That raid mythic and rank 90 percentile+) and other good opinions about how we are doing actually.
Maybe I am missing something important and that is why I am starting this post.

I love the fact that we finally have our niche with cleaving starfall spec. I could not really enjoy my spec as much during E.N. and I think we are in a good spot on that side right now.
The only thing I am wondering about is, should we receive a small buff on our single target considering we are straight bottom on single target encounter ?

I went through the logs on and on single target fights, other than for the lucky number 1-2 log for boomkin that do not represent the class, we are always at least 100k+ dps away from the top 100. We are also bottom 5 on all of them.
Trilliax, Chronomatic, Krosus we are bottom 2-3 with 75th percentile heroic kill.
The only reason we are not that low on star augur is because we can cheese some dps during the last phase.

We are 100k dps below the best spec on Krosus and Trilliax.

Is that suppose to be the end game for a spec? To shine on some fights and be bottom on others?
Tbh, I believe it is not that far off the goal of blizzard as they always said they wanted classes to have niche.
Where I see the issue is when I compare to classes like Frost DK that actually shine on all type of fights right now.

I don't think we should be top 10 single target, but my opinion on that subject right now is that the gap between the 1st and the 24th spec is still too high.
A single target buff reducing to gap with us and the top 5 on single target would seem fair while buffing those that are in the same boat.
Also, in mythic Single target becomes more important on many fights which makes it hard to shine as a boomkin (Botanist is the best example).
Once again, I wanna make sure you all understand: I do not believe we should be top 10 or really close to that on single target as our niche is clearly multi dot cleave right now.

[Skyepic]

IMO we need talent adjustments more than a buff/tuning/whatever. I didn't look at every single spec but if you take a look at some of the overall statistics for classes on Warcraft logs you'll notice a lot of classes have a very "cookie cutter" type build where 1 build (or very close to 1 build) is effective on all fights. Allowing them to provide near max efficiency in AoE and Single Target at the same time. Whereas boomkins are pretty much the opposite. I feel we sacrifice a lot more than other classes when deciding how to spec for an encounter. With a lot of fights in Nighthold having a variety of single target and cleave throughout the encounter, it leaves us decent during part of the fight and then severely lacking during the other. Throughout our talent tree we have more choices to make than other classes, SotF vs INC, SS vs BotA, SD vs NB. Sometimes it's hard to decide between the two, whereas other classes are just like "I take X because Y and Z suck".

For a long time druids have been asking Blizzard to make Natures Balance and caked in passive and give us a new 100 talent.

[Liandryl]

IMO we need talent adjustments more than a buff/tuning/whatever. I didn't look at every single spec but if you take a look at some of the overall statistics for classes on Warcraft logs you'll notice a lot of classes have a very "cookie cutter" type build where 1 build (or very close to 1 build) is effective on all fights. Allowing them to provide near max efficiency in AoE and Single Target at the same time. Whereas boomkins are pretty much the opposite. I feel we sacrifice a lot more than other classes when deciding how to spec for an encounter. With a lot of fights in Nighthold having a variety of single target and cleave throughout the encounter, it leaves us decent during part of the fight and then severely lacking during the other. Throughout our talent tree we have more choices to make than other classes, SotF vs INC, SS vs BotA, SD vs NB. Sometimes it's hard to decide between the two, whereas other classes are just like "I take X because Y and Z suck".

For a long time druids have been asking Blizzard to make Natures Balance and caked in passive and give us a new 100 talent.

Sure, Nature's balance as a basis for boomkin could be nice, but I disagree with your point of view on talents.
It would be easier to have 1 good for all, but what is the point of having 3 talents options then? I actually like the talents and choosing which talents are best for what encounter is what makes you better than those who do not optimize. It's part of the game and that is fine. I don't really have issue with the gameplay of boomkin as of now.

Talents like fury of elune would be a priority to rework over nature's balance. I have never liked it. The idea behind it was not bad, but it does not work with tier, legendary and the area of effect of that talent is way too small. Stellar flare also needs something to bring to the table to feel good using.

[Zan15]

i had to go cleave spec, and learn to pad on heroic Gul because my guild was going to sit me. While it was really not needed with a raid group full of hunters, DH, warlocks, mages....

ST is just about a dead spec when any fight has adds since other specs have very bursty AOE even in their ST specs which makes it that much harder to "appear" to keep up.

Mythic logs trickling out are really starting to show how much we suffer on fights with 0 or little add up time....and movement

[Nerxyrall]

Logs and personal experience show pretty much : If there arent a lot of adds, a little spread out (that other speccs cant cleave as good) we do really competive ~top5 dps.
If it is singel target or close to singel target we suck really hard.

In my opinion there are the following ways to go to make me happy/Moonkin more competitive(on singel target) :
- Natures balance baseline + new 100 singel target talent
- Buffs to singel target
- Nerf the other speccs singel target

Probably a combination would be best. I dont think it is bad if speccs have different strengths. But we arent that good in Aoe that we should be last/nearly last on Singel target. Especially if there are speccs that shine in both AoE and Singel Target.

Since talent changes are very unlikely (at least before 7.2) just tweak some numbers....isnt that hard.

[Skyepic]

Sure, Nature's balance as a basis for boomkin could be nice, but I disagree with your point of view on talents.
It would be easier to have 1 good for all, but what is the point of having 3 talents options then? I actually like the talents and choosing which talents are best for what encounter is what makes you better than those who do not optimize. It's part of the game and that is fine. I don't really have issue with the gameplay of boomkin as of now.

Talents like fury of elune would be a priority to rework over nature's balance. I have never liked it. The idea behind it was not bad, but it does not work with tier, legendary and the area of effect of that talent is way too small. Stellar flare also needs something to bring to the table to feel good using.

I'm not saying we can't or shouldn't have different viable talents. I'm saying the sacrifice we have to take to be competitive regarding AoE vs Single Target is larger than other classes. Hypothetically, if a mage picks an AoE talent for a single target fight their DPS may drop 10%. If a balance druid picks an AoE talent for a single target fight our dps drops 25%. Which means when their are fights that have a mixture of AoE and single target we more or less once again become a Jack of No Trades because we don't excel at either to begin with.

[foibooze]

Which talent do you skip for singletarget that makes you drop 25% dps?

Remember, Starsurge isn't a talent!

[Moshots]

IMO we need talent adjustments more than a buff/tuning/whatever. I didn't look at every single spec but if you take a look at some of the overall statistics for classes on Warcraft logs you'll notice a lot of classes have a very "cookie cutter" type build where 1 build (or very close to 1 build) is effective on all fights. Allowing them to provide near max efficiency in AoE and Single Target at the same time. Whereas boomkins are pretty much the opposite. I feel we sacrifice a lot more than other classes when deciding how to spec for an encounter. With a lot of fights in Nighthold having a variety of single target and cleave throughout the encounter, it leaves us decent during part of the fight and then severely lacking during the other. Throughout our talent tree we have more choices to make than other classes, SotF vs INC, SS vs BotA, SD vs NB. Sometimes it's hard to decide between the two, whereas other classes are just like "I take X because Y and Z suck".

For a long time druids have been asking Blizzard to make Natures Balance and caked in passive and give us a new 100 talent.

Although I do agree with the sentiment that we need some talent adjustments I like the notion that Talents matter. and that we swap talents on every fight seems to fit that narrative that blizzard has been saying.. As to us not needing buffs. Have a hard time agreeing with you when looking at the numbers. granted ive been one ranting for buffs for weeks. but still...

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11#boss=1865
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11#boss=1867
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11#boss=1842

3 single target fights in this tier. Boomkin 23/24th on all 3....

Spellblade were good cause of adds but lets look at damage to boss
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...metric=bossdps

What we need is Wrath/LS damage increased by 15-25%... make our fillers matter and give us a single target buff without Pigeonholing us back into ED helm or bust by buffing SS.... Our aoe is fine and balanced

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11#boss=1871

Were only #4 here on what should be our best fight in the instance. our AOE is far from Broken but we just need our single target to be brought up in a way that helps us out in all situations and I think 20% wrath 20% LS would do that.

[Myztikrice]

Most guilds are barely through Mythic, posting logs from them is pointless when there's only 100 for an entire class.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...1&difficulty=4

Here Moonkins are #2

[Moshots]

Most guilds are barely through Mythic, posting logs from them is pointless when there's only 100 for an entire class.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...1&difficulty=4

Here Moonkins are #2

Heroics mean basically nothing though. Boomkins are good at "padding"

When we did splits week 1 with some people have 875 and worse alts I was #1 dps on Spellblade as we barely killed adds fast enough to have them not blow up even an arcane going off....

when we did splits week 2 with more gear on mains and alts with some normal gear I was down to #3 dps with arcane adds dying before any blew up.

When we did all mains week 3 I was like 6-7th with arcane adds dead half way through their cast...

Mythic Logs are all that matter. and especially single target logs because single target doesn't change much depending on fight time. maybe you clip over the CD mark and get a extra set of cd's and move up a spot or 2 but its pretty static between classes once you hit the 5 minute or so mark.

The only heroic logs that might matter or be of any use in balancing are the ST ones because no differential is adds living...
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...2&difficulty=4 (24/24) Krosus
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...7&difficulty=4 (23/24) Trilliax
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...5&difficulty=4 (23/24) Chromatic
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...3&difficulty=4 (15/24) Star Augur (2 target spread cleave part of fight)

Also we don't have logs of the last few fights yet in which boomkins are even worse.

Methods Lorgoc is Methods most geared raider... He was 13th on Elesandre from the video.
Serenity's Nagura who everyone knows as one of the best druids in the world wasn't in the top 10 on Serenity's kill meters.

Guldan.
Nagura wasn't in on the kill after being in 9/10 Both weeks and geared
Lorgoc was in I believe but we will have to see how he did...
Exorsus ran 0 boomkins.


And again i'm not saying the sky is falling because we don't have to be better than the melee who get to sit on boss on 2/3rd of these fights. We need to be equal to the other ranged so were only 2-3% behind. not 7-8%.

[Myztikrice]

So when other spces are are at the top it's because they do good DPS, but when we're at the top it's because we padded there? And 75th percentile is so you avoid padding. The top 3 guilds in the world aren't a good indicator of general performance either. You whiners never get it right.

[Skyepic]

Which talent do you skip for singletarget that makes you drop 25% dps?

Remember, Starsurge isn't a talent!

Remember, i said hypothetical....(that means the statistics aren't exact)

- - - Updated - - -

Although I do agree with the sentiment that we need some talent adjustments I like the notion that Talents matter. and that we swap talents on every fight seems to fit that narrative that blizzard has been saying.. As to us not needing buffs. Have a hard time agreeing with you when looking at the numbers. granted ive been one ranting for buffs for weeks. but still...

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11#boss=1865
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11#boss=1867
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11#boss=1842

3 single target fights in this tier. Boomkin 23/24th on all 3....

Spellblade were good cause of adds but lets look at damage to boss
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...metric=bossdps

What we need is Wrath/LS damage increased by 15-25%... make our fillers matter and give us a single target buff without Pigeonholing us back into ED helm or bust by buffing SS.... Our aoe is fine and balanced

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11#boss=1871

Were only #4 here on what should be our best fight in the instance. our AOE is far from Broken but we just need our single target to be brought up in a way that helps us out in all situations and I think 20% wrath 20% LS would do that.

I like the notion that talents matter as well, i just think more classes should be put in our situation. That will bring other classes down to us instead of us being buffed to match them. The end result is still the same.

[Nerxyrall]

So when other spces are are at the top it's because they do good DPS, but when we're at the top it's because we padded there? And 75th percentile is so you avoid padding. The top 3 guilds in the world aren't a good indicator of general performance either. You whiners never get it right.

Then we are good on spellblade...doesnt matter if we are really bad in sooo many other fights.

Personal experience and warcraftlogs and top guild performances give you - together - a pretty good picture ....
Like people are saying the sky isnt falling, but our singel target is in a bad spot. If you want to raid mythic in a somewhat comepetive environment, it is a problem.

And even if you dont get sat on progress, you dont feel like you are contributing much to the kill and another specc with less gear/skill could help with the kill faster.

[Kikazz]

im not in a top end guild.

but once you get 4 set, you will see your damage increase.

what types of legends do you have?

whats your rotation like?

yes i sit around the middle of the pack, but Boomkin scales better with gear than it does without, where as most specs can do well without gear.

BALANCE DRUIDS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN MORE GEAR THE BETTER WE GET.

just get the right Relics, the right optimized gear, please tell me your going Haste Prime/Mastery off as much as possible.

dont overcap haste past 34%, with Whispers/Metranome Procced, aka sit around 29%.

and boost mastery to 70% you will do fine.

just practice.

[Deleted]

im not in a top end guild.

but once you get 4 set, you will see your damage increase.

what types of legends do you have?

whats your rotation like?

yes i sit around the middle of the pack, but Boomkin scales better with gear than it does without, where as most specs can do well without gear.

BALANCE DRUIDS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN MORE GEAR THE BETTER WE GET.

just get the right Relics, the right optimized gear, please tell me your going Haste Prime/Mastery off as much as possible.

dont overcap haste past 34%, with Whispers/Metranome Procced, aka sit around 29%.

and boost mastery to 70% you will do fine.

just practice.

Dude the majority of the players in these mythic logs already have the 4set and all the items u are saying yet they are hammered by the other classes. Nagura openly stated on stream that any melee is better than her on auger and all the upper bosses, they just didnt have anyone to replace her. Also these sweeping statements that a class is gear dependent is utter rubbish, every class in the game is gear dependent, simple as that.

[Kikazz]

Dude the majority of the players in these mythic logs already have the 4set and all the items u are saying yet they are hammered by the other classes. Nagura openly stated on stream that any melee is better than her on auger and all the upper bosses, they just didnt have anyone to replace her. Also these sweeping statements that a class is gear dependent is utter rubbish, every class in the game is gear dependent, simple as that.

the same players also stated that our biggest killer is movement, if you can sort out your movement you should be fine.

me and another boomkin pull around 600-800k dps easily in our kills, and i dont see a problem, are you pulling near the same? or are your other dps doing 1m+???

im not sure how to compare what the OP is saying themself is different to the rest.

yes Nagura/Logok and all that would be replaced if they had a replacement for Mythic Prog because our class gets shat on if we move, we just have to adapt.

as for Augr, perfect example, we get shat on due to having to move a fair bit.

[Moshots]

Remember, i said hypothetical....(that means the statistics aren't exact)

- - - Updated - - -



I like the notion that talents matter as well, i just think more classes should be put in our situation. That will bring other classes down to us instead of us being buffed to match them. The end result is still the same.

The only issue with that is the raids are not tuned in a way that agree's with you.

krosus 600k out of every dps. as of like 4 days ago which was the last time i checked only the top like 9 Parses of boomkin did the required dps to "not be carried".

This raid was/is tuned at multiple places to have hard dps checks. Spellblade/Krosus/Star augur/Elisande all have brutal enrage timers/dps checks and right now Boomkins are barely able to do enough damage to warrant bringing them to almost any of the DPS check fights unless they are "guilds pet" like Lorgoc who had the highest Ilvl in Method by 2 full ilvl's when they killed those bosses and still was 13th dps on Elisande although he had an amazing pull on Star Augur on their kill. or like a gapezilla or Nagura. I mean not taking away from these players being good and deserving the gear but just making the point that unless your getting fed gear hard your getting smoked by classes with 2-3 less ilvl's even.

[MV Kaa]

Dude the majority of the players in these mythic logs already have the 4set and all the items u are saying yet they are hammered by the other classes. Nagura openly stated on stream that any melee is better than her on auger and all the upper bosses, they just didnt have anyone to replace her. Also these sweeping statements that a class is gear dependent is utter rubbish, every class in the game is gear dependent, simple as that.

Take anything Nagura says with a grain of salt. I highly doubt a guild that has 4 split runs doesnt have a replacement for one dps :P

[Nerxyrall]

the same players also stated that our biggest killer is movement, if you can sort out your movement you should be fine.

me and another boomkin pull around 600-800k dps easily in our kills, and i dont see a problem, are you pulling near the same? or are your other dps doing 1m+???

im not sure how to compare what the OP is saying themself is different to the rest.

yes Nagura/Logok and all that would be replaced if they had a replacement for Mythic Prog because our class gets shat on if we move, we just have to adapt.

as for Augr, perfect example, we get shat on due to having to move a fair bit.

logs pls then.

But you cant argue that if you do similar warcraftlog% than other speccs and are way behind something is wrong. And thats just a statistical fact, which can be observed over several bosses.

If your personal experience varies from that a lot i would be suprised but it would just be an outlier.

The only issue with that is the raids are not tuned in a way that agree's with you.

krosus 600k out of every dps. as of like 4 days ago which was the last time i checked only the top like 9 Parses of boomkin did the required dps to "not be carried".

This raid was/is tuned at multiple places to have hard dps checks. Spellblade/Krosus/Star augur/Elisande all have brutal enrage timers/dps checks and right now Boomkins are barely able to do enough damage to warrant bringing them to almost any of the DPS check fights unless they are "guilds pet" like Lorgoc who had the highest Ilvl in Method by 2 full ilvl's when they killed those bosses and still was 13th dps on Elisande although he had an amazing pull on Star Augur on their kill. or like a gapezilla or Nagura. I mean not taking away from these players being good and deserving the gear but just making the point that unless your getting fed gear hard your getting smoked by classes with 2-3 less ilvl's even.

We progressed on krosus a bit and while my low dps was ofcourse partly from low skill, even with more luck (not targeted as often with the aoe-ball-thing)and more skill the 600k dps check is really hard. While nearly every other specc can pull way better numbers.

[Moshots]

Take anything Nagura says with a grain of salt. I highly doubt a guild that has 4 split runs doesnt have a replacement for one dps :P

Star augur was a 2 heal fight... Serenity has 4 main healers and started with a 24 man roster which was down to 22 by mid week 1.... You do the math.

Serenity also 2 healed Elesande and then Nagura sat out Guldan once they were back to a 4 heal fight,

Lorgoc from method was fed gear for some ungodly reason (maybe he is an officer or something) and he had the highest ilvl in method by 2 full ivl at one point. And even with that outside his amazing star augur pull where he finished 3rd he was Almost dead last on Elisande and once we have a guldan video i can all but guarantee he was nowhere to be seen on that dps chart either.