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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by mcbubble View Post
    I don't understand posts like this. When someone is saying that Resto Shammies are falling behind in numbers, people say stop QQ'ing. This isn't addressing the issue. At what point do you think it becomes an issue? Right now we're ~10% lower than the top according to the median of top parses. What if we fall to 25% lower? Is it still a moot point because we still 'bring the utility' (which is just silly, because we don't necessarily bring that much more utility other than SLT, aka...Shaman Loving Thatraidspotbecausethetotemisop)
    Not every class is going to be equal dude. How boring it would be if every single class was able to do the same thing to the T, there would be zero disparity. They've even said it, not every class is great at this situation, you'll be strong here but weak here. The same goes for damage dealers. just because you aren't number one in one aspect doesn't mean you are broken. Listen to any of the top leaders, these fights can be done with any set up. Is it easier to bring 4 of these on a world first race because it makes the fight easier at the VERY beginning of a tier. Method and Serenity have already said Shamans are in their eyes number 1 for Mythics because of their utility, it's too valuable. If u think SLT is their only utility, then you are just bad at seeing the class for what it is.

    TLR, don't expect every class to be just like it's cousin, because that's not how this game has Ever been or will ever be.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by mcbubble View Post
    I don't understand posts like this. When someone is saying that Resto Shammies are falling behind in numbers, people say stop QQ'ing. This isn't addressing the issue. At what point do you think it becomes an issue? Right now we're ~10% lower than the top according to the median of top parses. What if we fall to 25% lower? Is it still a moot point because we still 'bring the utility' (which is just silly, because we don't necessarily bring that much more utility other than SLT, aka...Shaman Loving Thatraidspotbecausethetotemisop)
    Because you're using logs as a way to determine healer effectiveness, which isn't accurate at.

    You can't just look at hps and draw conclusions like you can with dps. Healing is way to random and dependant on the raid as a whole to do so.

    Resto shaman are part of the world first NH guilds, so clearly they're not "falling behind".

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Hashcrypt View Post
    Because you're using logs as a way to determine healer effectiveness, which isn't accurate at.

    You can't just look at hps and draw conclusions like you can with dps. Healing is way to random and dependant on the raid as a whole to do so.

    Resto shaman are part of the world first NH guilds, so clearly they're not "falling behind".
    Finally someone with sense chimes in on this cancer thread.

  4. #84
    I don't think it's something that requires immediate attention. But I do think it's something that I hope blizzard will keep an eye on.

    The way I see it, shamans are really good progression healers (still) because they are most effective when healing matters most. That makes us very valuable in early mythic raids. Even if you don't see it in HPS logs, a resto shaman can pull 300k HPS casually and then pop to 600k+ HPS when shit hits the fan. Overal we won't outheal the other healers, but our healing does come at a time when the stress on the healers overal is highest.
    Paladins and Priests can do 500k+ sustained healing, but I know (from my own raids and from playing paladin as well) that I love having a shaman around when shit hits the fan.

    I do think that it's something that we need to be careful about that it doesn't snowball into worse.
    With NH coming on farm in a while shamans will drop even further; on top of that the situations in which our burst healing and SLT are super useful will drop as well.

    Shamans have the privilege to be the (arguably) #1 healers for progression. Not because we do the most healing overal, but because we are the best healers for those tough cases where you lose a healer and need to step up your throughput; for when you want to cheese a boss ability; etc.
    On farm however we drop behind and other healers gain even more momentum. A resto druid or disc priest with fight knowledge can be extremely effective with their proactive healing style.
    Progression matters a lot (the most to world first guilds), but being a dull class to play that falls behind on farm. Which minds you is the majority of the tier, isn't a good state to be in either.

  5. #85
    I would say that the healers are never better balanced than right now. How much HPS you getting on the Meters is more depended, how often you can use your healing CDs than your actual gameplay. If your HTT ist planned for an ability in the middle of the fight rather than one of the first you're basicly not topping the meter. Look(Elematics-Onyxia-EU) at my logs for example the only that change from EN to NH is that HTT comes first.


    With that said, I'd rather discuss systemic problem of the restoration shaman. In my opinion our healing niche is to narrow. We're only good at stacked constant AoE fights with the help of Innervates/SDW and moving encounters, where SWG is just OP.
    But we are bad at all Single-target/Spread-AoE(too far for CH(like Spellblade))/Cleave-heal scenario.

    What i would like to see going forward ist a new 100 Talent for wellspring. They could fix the numbers on Wellspring but this would basicly just shift our problems. Wellspring and Hightide are just too simuilar. I rather see something that would synergies well with UL. Maybe bring back Earthshield but give it a small beacon mechanic instead of the 20% more healing part.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Riise View Post
    I would say that the healers are never better balanced than right now. How much HPS you getting on the Meters is more depended, how often you can use your healing CDs than your actual gameplay. If your HTT ist planned for an ability in the middle of the fight rather than one of the first you're basicly not topping the meter. Look(Elematics-Onyxia-EU) at my logs for example the only that change from EN to NH is that HTT comes first.


    With that said, I'd rather discuss systemic problem of the restoration shaman. In my opinion our healing niche is to narrow. We're only good at stacked constant AoE fights with the help of Innervates/SDW and moving encounters, where SWG is just OP.
    But we are bad at all Single-target/Spread-AoE(too far for CH(like Spellblade))/Cleave-heal scenario.

    What i would like to see going forward ist a new 100 Talent for wellspring. They could fix the numbers on Wellspring but this would basicly just shift our problems. Wellspring and Hightide are just too simuilar. I rather see something that would synergies well with UL. Maybe bring back Earthshield but give it a small beacon mechanic instead of the 20% more healing part.
    Actually, I'm doing pretty well on spread AoE with the M+ Riptide build, as long as the damage comes in chuncks (on Tichondrius for example Druid HoTs have amazing efficiency) In fact, I went up on logs the moment I stopped bothering trying to get that 4jump CH out, especially as I got the 2p at the same time. The only AoE heals I cast are my artifact & Healing Rain on the tanks/melee. It ofcourse helps my case that I run in smaller heroic groups and our ranged never bother to stand together.

    As for Wellspring, the entire last row is AoE heals, with Ascendance as CD and High Tide as the passive/consistent one, so Wellspring would fall in nice in between ... except even then it is still competing with CH, because it is a cast time heal. If it was instant, it still wouldn't beat High Tide for pure, reliable AoE spam, but it would have its uses in high movement fights or quick reacting to unforseen incoming raid damage.

  7. #87
    Deleted
    Right now we're ~10% lower than the top according to the median of top parses. What if we fall to 25% lower?
    That's actually a good point. At the start of Cata we were so far behind, that they eventually had to give us a flat +15% heal buff, yet pre buff there were still lots of people saying how fine Resto shaman is, because they got raid spots due to Manatide and Spiritlink and it was possible to kill bosses with Rshamans despite their lower output.

    I guess whoever does competitive raiding and also cares about log performance has already rerolled to Resto druid or Holy pally expansions ago and what's left are people who either don't care about those things or just want to comfortably do mediocre Hps (e.g because they don't like the pressure of being expected to deliver top Hps in every fight), but still want to feel valuable because they bring important Cds. Of course they will always claim shamans are fine even if they're 10-20% behind and it's nothing wrong with that, because everybody has a different mentality, but just accept that there are people who care about performance a bit more. It doesn't make them worse or better healers.

    I personally don't see the problem when people demand equal Hps output to the other healers. SLT is strong but in exchange we already lack a tank Cd and a strong instant. There's no need for an output tax. Why are people so afraid of Rshaman Hps being on par? If it's the spec that you're passionate about, you want it to perform as good as it possibly could. And even if we ended up being, god forbid, the top healer for one tier, why the hell not? Disc priests or Holy pallys had that pleasure for whole expansions, every spec deserves their time to shine once in a while, don't pretend like it's not fun to feel powerful now and then. Blizzard could easily bump overall Resto output by a small amount and it would not be a problem balance wise at all.

  8. #88
    >spirit link totem
    >ancestral protection totem
    >reincarnation

    yep, worst healer at the moment.

    :thinking:

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    >spirit link totem
    >ancestral protection totem
    >reincarnation

    yep, worst healer at the moment.



    :thinking:
    Boggles my mind when people claim our ONLY utility is SLT.

  10. #90
    ITT: noobs who want to have top hps on the meter.

    Hps does NOT matter.

    Resto mastery + our cds make us op when it matters, and weak on hps. If you don't like that, then you can reroll. Resto shaman has and always will be in a great spot due to the great kit blizzard has made for the spec. Quit qq'ing because you're bad and don't know how healing works

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