"Skills, not gear should matter in PvP" - Look at it now...

[Deleted]

Personally I love being completely decked out in PvP gear in battlegrounds being able to absolutely destroy people in 3-4 seconds. On the flip side I also love going in as a freshly dinged soon, struggling to make a difference and keep up, only to improve bit by bit in each battleground, ultimately to have a strong character that can contest objectives. The entire progression in battlegrounds is what made them fun for me.

Arena is a different story but not far off, if you had a full set of battleground gear you could easily contest players at a 1800-2000 rating, then when it improved you could hit 2200+.

All in all the new system doesn't interest me in the slightest, I have 0 drive to queue for BGs or Arena at the moment

[melodramocracy]

If you are bored with PvP because you aren't getting rewards, you probably just don't enjoy PvP as much as you think you do.

[Toppy]

"Skills, not gear should matter in PvP" people said.
Blizzard listened, and made gear barely matter at all in PvP.

Well, here we are. Your dream came true. Is PvP fun now?
Cuz all I see is people saying PvP is more boring than ever.

And don't come here saying it is boring because x spec is OP. There will ALWAYS be a spec that is performing better than others in 1v1 situations. Now you just can't outgear it.

No good gear rewards in PvP = no reason to do it.

After unlocking all PvP talents, we get no satisfaction from gaining paragon levels. It's the worst system you have ever had.

It's an MMORPG. The whole point of this whole genre is to get better gear. And when you get better gear you are supposed to be excited.
I get a gear upgrade and I am like "I guess this is an ilvl upgrade, I'll equip it, woo so fun I am now 0.000001% stronger time to beat some horde ass".

And don't even get me started on how stupid this system is when it comes to World PvP. Again, the mythic raiders dominate World PvP. Hell, even random heroic dungeon players perform better than people farming random battlegrounds. I guess Blizz still thinks World PvP is not real PvP, it does not belong in this game and it is supposed to be dominated by mythic raiders.

Give me a system making me farm day out and in. The more you farm, the better gear you get. In the end, the people that farm the very most, they get gear that is so powerful you dominate everyone not only in Battlegrounds, but also in World PvP.

No gear =\= fun. Farming for exciting huge gear improvements == fun.

Gear mattered less in WoD than it does now in Legion. Why? WoD had gear scaling, which was a perfect system and worked fantastic. If anything they could have scaled it more so the gap would have been less. But blizz decided they wanted gear to still matter, but also tossed in artifact power which gives both damage and survivability, kept ilvl making a difference, scaled weapons poorly, and added a system worse than any PvP gearing system in years.

There goes your entire crappy argument.

- - - Updated - - -

Uhhh. During current season, getting current season gear was not "fast". It's always been about a 90 hour honor grind in previous expansions just to catch up to last seasons gear (Or get starter gear if it's a new expansion). And that's just to get to the point where farming conquest gear from RBG/Arena is viable. From there it's a 10 week grind fighting conquest cap to just get to the current season gear.

So no. Getting gear for pvp has never been "easy", just stupidly grindy to the point where casual players went "fuck that" and stuck to PvE content.

Also, customizing stats? Really? That sounds like that can be easily fixed with some sort of reforging mechanism, instead of shooting casual PvPers in the foot.

Edit: I don't understand why "PvPer" suddenly means "has all the time in the world to be the best at the game". There are casual PvPers too, and we make up a much larger portion of the PvP population than those willing to subject themselves to ridiculous grinds.

90 hour honor grind? lol. 10 hours maybe, and only if you wanted a full suit of honor (why?). What game are you playing? Hell any time I started late in MoP or WoD I would grind honor for like, 2 or so hours, then jump into arena.

Not to mention the later you started the more conquest you could gain. So if you started three months late you could be mostly conquest geared the week you start gearing. I dont think you actually PvPed since Cata, since this stuff has been in since MoP

[Mazeari]

Gear is pretty balanced. Except for the fact that every trait increases your stamina and dmg output. Except that after multipe daillies, 100 arena games. I still don't even have lv 30 honor talents (which is absurd tbh). Let alone the balance, but that's been going downhill ever since mop.
I think the gear rewards system works okish, it's the only thing that makes me come back for arena. Hell it's so bad after 5 wins I cba, I can't even bother to do 10 wins a row. That's coming from someone that got 2.2k every season till WoD.

[Tyrean]

I actually liked the old system. The honor grind was not too bad at all as you could play alts. I always had my main in full conquest gear and my alts I would stop at honor gear to just have fun in BGs. The conquest gear was perfectly fine for players if they just want to cap for the week and did not care about rating. You could get a conquest gear set before the season was over to have fun on BGs without tons of arena play.

I actually wish they just had a hybrid of what they have now. Gear scales in ilvl like it did before where PvP gear scales slightly higher. You still have templates based on ilvl. Artifact weapons are fully engaged in the template. The only "grind" you would have would be the honor talents, which I think is perfectly fine.

So for example, the base template is ilvl 800. Every 10 ilvls above that is a 1% increase just like it is now. If you get a piece of 840 ilvl pvp gear, it scales to ilvl+15 or something in the template. As your pvp ilvl increases you get increased drops stopping at 880 ilvl So if all you ever do is pvp you can get gear that works better for pvp than pve gear and you are not gimped by your artifact weapon. Of course they could tweak the numbers to whatever is appropriate.

I really think the honor talents are the best part of the system, I would LOVE to see them extend the honor talents to also have stat focus talents. So you could have a tier of honor talents that convert X amount of crit to haste or something. So you could have choices over your stat distribution.

[Soisoisoi]

"Skills, not gear should matter in PvP" people said.
Blizzard listened, and made gear barely matter at all in PvP.

Well, here we are. Your dream came true. Is PvP fun now?
Cuz all I see is people saying PvP is more boring than ever.

[...]
No gear =\= fun. Farming for exciting huge gear improvements == fun.

1) Skills should be the king in PvP. The problem is the template system isn't being balanced properly. That doesn't change that skills SHOULD be the reason you win, not gear.

2) It took all of a few hours of farming Trashran to gear up to the minimum, then 1 item a week after (assuming starting at season start). The process of gearing up was not fun as you were just constantly one shot or grinding lootables to hand in until you were geared if you started later. So, after the few hours of "fun" farming... You're in the same spot as you're in right now for Legion. You literally made no argument for it.

You should be blaming artifacts for late-joiners now, but even that's not exactly difficult as you can get AK25 really quick now and it's capped for PvP.

Gear and artifacts now impact pvp more than gear ever did in the past during this decade.

Gear has fuck all impact on instanced PvP right now. It's 0.1% to your stat template per 1 ilvl. If you are 50 ilvl above someone that's a mere 5%. Compare that to like 25% per season or whatever through MoP/WoD etc, it's a tiny difference.

[Baneador]

I preffer the new system.

[Hiricine]

Pvp is more competitive than its ever been, even in casual bgs you rarely see a 5:0 AB or 3:0 WSG anymore.

For the most part, blizz just needs to adjust pvp rewards to reflect the higher level of competitiveness. The system as it stands was mostly designed around good players steamrolling scrubs, which doesn't happen much anymore with the gear changes. The rate of gains should be a bit higher, and losing needs to feel a little more rewarding when you stick it out.

[Deleted]

Did someone rek you so hard you felt the need to post about it in a 3rd party website?

Personally I'd post about it on their forums but I was given a permanent ban after I said if Blizzard had been a company during world war 2, they would have sold the incinerators used to burn thel jews to the nazis.

I guess they didn't like the comparison about their business ethics.

- - - Updated - - -

Pvp is more competitive than its ever been, even in casual bgs you rarely see a 5:0 AB or 3:0 WSG anymore.

That's considerably far from the truth.

That being said, being spanked by people with considerably better gear was fun - because when you did win against them, it felt good. Now it's just.. boring.

[Lady Dragonheart]

I prefer the new PvP system. Queue and joining groups is easier than it ever has been before and no one is gated by a "gear ladder." So, it's much easier to have fun in such a competitive situation.

[FelPlague]

Gear and artifacts now impact pvp more than gear ever did in the past during this decade. Pvp gear was easy & fast to obtain and reaching an equal playing field didn't take very long.

What they took away was the option to customize your character's stats, but stat and damage differences are still there. This is only going to get worse with 7.2 as the 35+ traits are gonna unlock in pvp as well.

35+ traits are not getting added to pvp(the next few may but not paragon)

[Super Kami Dende]

Reducing gear factor in PvP was a good change. People are shooting at the wrong reasons why PvP is bad in Legion, which are:

- Artifact Power. Your artifact level gives you extra damage, utility and health. So, it's a huge source of imbalance in place of old gear problems.

If you are this far into legion and don't have the first 34 traits as a PvPer, You either play less than 2 BG's a week or are just complaining for the sake of complaining.

The Stat Boosts Traits from 34-54 are disabled in PvP.

[sofos87]

"Skills, not gear should matter in PvP" people said.
Blizzard listened, and made gear barely matter at all in PvP.

Well, here we are. Your dream came true. Is PvP fun now?
Cuz all I see is people saying PvP is more boring than ever.

And don't come here saying it is boring because x spec is OP. There will ALWAYS be a spec that is performing better than others in 1v1 situations. Now you just can't outgear it.

No good gear rewards in PvP = no reason to do it.

After unlocking all PvP talents, we get no satisfaction from gaining paragon levels. It's the worst system you have ever had.

It's an MMORPG. The whole point of this whole genre is to get better gear. And when you get better gear you are supposed to be excited.
I get a gear upgrade and I am like "I guess this is an ilvl upgrade, I'll equip it, woo so fun I am now 0.000001% stronger time to beat some horde ass".

And don't even get me started on how stupid this system is when it comes to World PvP. Again, the mythic raiders dominate World PvP. Hell, even random heroic dungeon players perform better than people farming random battlegrounds. I guess Blizz still thinks World PvP is not real PvP, it does not belong in this game and it is supposed to be dominated by mythic raiders.

Give me a system making me farm day out and in. The more you farm, the better gear you get. In the end, the people that farm the very most, they get gear that is so powerful you dominate everyone not only in Battlegrounds, but also in World PvP.

No gear =\= fun. Farming for exciting huge gear improvements == fun.

another pver hidden behind a pvp profile ..... when pvevp arrives well call you

[Zachsophone]

I like the new PvP system; it’s actually the most fun I’ve had in PvP since Cataclysm. I’ve also had gear rewards and a couple of legendry’s.

I'm going to have to agree with this guy and say you're just flat out wrong on this one lol. This is by far the best version of pvp. I don't pvp for progress, I pvp for fun, and for the sweet cosmetic rewards. I PVE for progress.

That said, you actually can get decent gear from pvp if you're skilled enough anyway. "people farming random battlegrounds." There's your problem lol, don't farm RANDOM battle grounds for gear ya dunce! Do arenas or rated BGs. If you don't want to, that's fine, but don't complain that easy content isn't giving you top end gear.

Edit: Thought I should add, "No good gear rewards in PvP = no reason to do it". For the sake of argument and ignoring the true fact that RATED pvp actually gives solid gear rewards assuming your rating is decent, this is a game. Reason No. 1 for playing should be for fun, Reason No. 2 to play an MMORPG should be for progress (and "progress" could have MANY different definitions depending on the player). So if you're not playing for fun FIRST, then it might be time to hang up the ol' mouse and keyboard and do something else.

[Christonya]

"Skills, not gear should matter in PvP" people said.
Blizzard listened, and made gear barely matter at all in PvP.

Well, here we are. Your dream came true. Is PvP fun now?

OP are you an idiot? Or just ignorant? What people wanted (myself included) was to have skill be the deciding factor, not gear, not how much you grinded, your skill. What is pvp right now?

A massive grindfest where you need artifact power, without your artifact weapon at about lvl 29, you're worthless, when they added the catch up mechanic for AK it was like night and day, my alts went from behind unable to even do any thing, to being semi competitive.

And thats AP. What about honor talents? It's impossible to count how many losses / 1v1s I couldnt pull off. . . . BECAUSE I LACKED CERTAIN CORE HONOR TALENTS.

As for gear? Ilvl STILL matters, it STILL improves your stats, in a compounding way, you have 890 Ilvl? You have 9% more damage, healing, life, this isnt as simple as a 9% gain, this is a 9% gain in multiple areas giving you more along the lines of a 25% increase in power.

Well, here we are. Your dream came true. Is PvP fun now?

So no, we arn't here, in fact the 'gear' situation for pvp is the worst it's ever been, only getting some what better with the AK catch up mechanic -- But next patch they want to enable the paragon trait which will once again create a massive disparity.

I think it's also worth noting that pvpers never wanted them to remove the acquisition of gear, looking cool is awesome, we wanted it to stop playing a roll in pvp combat, that's it.

[Jazzhands]

I think the OP misses the times when he could stomp fresh max level players in his welfare pvp epics, and suddenly sucks now that he doesn't have that gear crutch.

PVP always had a gear hard cap, more or less, once you got your gear you simply pvp'd for points or fun. Now, you farm your first 50 levels, and you're set. Not really any different.

[Hashtronaut]

-snip-

As others have brought up...The thing is gear does actually matter, especially your artifact weapon.
There's plenty to do that'll make your character stronger in PvP which is what PvP gear used to do.

Personally I'm enjoying PvP this xpac.
Also until the most recent patch, 3s (which is what PvP is more or less balanced around) was pretty balanced. Now it's just a bunch of rmd running around oping all over the place.

[Deleted]

Uhhh. During current season, getting current season gear was not "fast". It's always been about a 90 hour honor grind in previous expansions just to catch up to last seasons gear (Or get starter gear if it's a new expansion). And that's just to get to the point where farming conquest gear from RBG/Arena is viable. From there it's a 10 week grind fighting conquest cap to just get to the current season gear.

So no. Getting gear for pvp has never been "easy", just stupidly grindy to the point where casual players went "fuck that" and stuck to PvE content.

Also, customizing stats? Really? That sounds like that can be easily fixed with some sort of reforging mechanism, instead of shooting casual PvPers in the foot.

In wod it took you 1-3 days of semi-casual (as in you didn't spend 90 hours in there) ashran to get full honor gear. You also gained conquest during that game + a conquest item. You were already closer to the max gear available than you'll ever be now without raiding or 2+ arena rating. In Mop, just like in Wod the conquest catch up mechanism also ensured you could catch up real fast with some 2vs2 - and finding a partner with the lfg tool in Wod wasn't exactly hard. In cata you could trade your easily obtained valor for conquest.

The best gear for pvp came from pvp and it was always capped. Now, you are stuck in an endless pve grind mill in order to reach an equal playing field as the rng gearing really does not work in pvp.

[Spiffums]

Seems like it would be easier to get "PvP" gear than "PvE" gear. All you're looking at is the ilvl so just do the world quests that reward gear and AP.

[Sencha]

Legion had the benefit to clean pvp of all wannabe pvpers who just liked to farm their pvp stuff to one-shoot people with no pvp gear.

Now that they have to rely more on skills, they complain. This is so funny.