Ask Mr. Robot or Simulation craft?

[howolowitz]

Hey fellow rogues!

I've got a question which of the simulators is more accurate. I just obtained my 3rd legendary will of valeera. My others are insignia of ravenholdt and prydaz. (My luck right -_-) Now simcraft tells me insignia + prydaz gives me more dps. According to ask mr robot its will of valeera. Any ideas which i should go for? My other neck is 875 beleron's choker and my other pants are splotched bloodfur leggins 870.

Thanks in advance

[Fallakin]

Simulation craft. There are no Patchwerk style fights (which is what Mr Robot runs).

[elfporn]

Simulation craft. There are no Patchwerk style fights (which is what Mr Robot runs).

This is misinformation about AMR. Completely false. Both AMR and simcraft have the option to sim out patchwerk style fights, as well as other options.

AMR is more accurate but takes longer(gearing strategy takes about 30min-1hour) There are more features for AMR as well. Both are fairly accurate, AMR moreso.

It's also worth noting that the AMR platform was completely rebuilt for legion. And shadowcraft is still inaccurate af.

[Hecktix]

Simulation craft. There are no Patchwerk style fights (which is what Mr Robot runs).

I don't know where you got that idea but that is false. The default setting on Simcraft is a Patchwerk style fight. Please don't spend misinformation as it only confuses people further when they come to forums looking for help.

Hey fellow rogues!

I've got a question which of the simulators is more accurate. I just obtained my 3rd legendary will of valeera. My others are insignia of ravenholdt and prydaz. (My luck right -_-) Now simcraft tells me insignia + prydaz gives me more dps. According to ask mr robot its will of valeera. Any ideas which i should go for? My other neck is 875 beleron's choker and my other pants are splotched bloodfur leggins 870.

Thanks in advance

What you need to do is:
1. Go to AMR
2. Check your best in bags
3. Sim your setup in Simcraft
4. Take the Pawn string from your sim results and import your Pawn string on your Pawn add-on
5. Equip any upgrades given by Pawn
6. Repeat steps 3-5 till you get the most optimal results in Simcraft.

You are getting varying results because each platform uses different stat weights. You need to figure out the stat weights that apply to your character in it's current state, in current gear. If anything, equip your Beleron's choker and sim yourself on SimC with just your Insignia on then follow the steps I listed to figure out which legendary would be the biggest % upgrade according to Pawn after getting your stat weights. Technically you're just trying to find out which stats would be most beneficial for you, since neither of the leg's equips are dps equips.

[howolowitz]

Alright hadnt thought of doing it that way yet! thanks for the replies everyone i'll try it out

[Sharpdarts]

With practice and some tutorials, I find amr very powerful, and somewhat easy to use. I use it to get stat weights, BiS Gear, Talents, ect. I also like the Gui interface over simcraft. Things I wonder though is how they figure out their rotations which i'm sure i could figure out if i took the time and how to customize your own.

[Hecktix]

With practice and some tutorials, I find amr very powerful, and somewhat easy to use. I use it to get stat weights, BiS Gear, Talents, ect. I also like the Gui interface over simcraft. Things I wonder though is how they figure out their rotations which i'm sure i could figure out if i took the time and how to customize your own.

I will say that AMR definitely has a more user friendly GUI. I find it very annoying when trying to swap gear on Simcraft when it is so quick and simple on AMR. Both have their pros and cons.

[Zoopercat]

@Sharpdarts Hey, I'm from Ask Mr. Robot. Our theorycrafter, Swol, is the rainman of rotations. Really. His process is something like this: boil the rotation down to the basics - generate energy, then spend it. Then we adds tests in with some extra tools we built. For example, he's able to set up automatic roll the bones tests that iterates over every combination to find out which one is best (instead of guess & tests).

Then the last step goes to me. I'm not the brilliant rotation wizard that Swol is, but I am the data queen. So I take his rotations, simulate them, and then compare them to actual WCL logs. This is the final way we are able to make sure they match up with reality. We don't try to 'game' the simulator to get extra damage out that isn't realistic - we want to make sure it matches what players really can do.

That all being said, there are tweaks here and there as players develop and new ideas are tested. If you run across any, just let us know and swol will test them out and implement them.

If you're interested in toying around with rotations, here's a video intro on them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MVBF44vXvM (short video)

Also if you're REALLY interested, these long videos might be interesting to you (about 30 minutes each) where Swol compares to SimC rotations (not 'who is better' but 'how they are different') and the second shows how he analyzes rotations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1mm9Ofd0VQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTfA0A7s0Fo

@elfporn - quick update: we just released multi-client options so you can run gearing strategies faster (about 12 hours ago, this is hot off the press!). There might be a few kinks to work out, so if you run into bugs, let me know. One we are working on is running multiple clients on the same computer can cause errors some times, just fyi. http://blog.askmrrobot.com/simulator-client-roadmap/

[ymirsson]

generate energy, then spend it? Thats pure genius

[Zoopercat]

Ha, ok I see how that sounds silly! What I meant was, he gets down to the basics and then builds from there, rigorously testing every assumption. Rather than just including assumptions that may or may not work, and rather than the old 'guess & test' method that doesn't cover every scenario. Sorry about that, this is why HE's the expert rotation maker, not me

[ymirsson]

Thought so. Still, i will pass this wisdom on in any possible scenario. Trade chat shall know the secrets of roge supremacy regarding the damage dealing henceforth!

[Blayke]

This is misinformation about AMR. Completely false. Both AMR and simcraft have the option to sim out patchwerk style fights, as well as other options.

AMR is more accurate but takes longer(gearing strategy takes about 30min-1hour)

Only an hour? I would sell my soul to only have it take that long. Mr Robot's Gear Strat sim takes forever on my computer, which is admittedly a bit old. My processor is an AMD-A4-3420 APU. Is it too old to run AMR effectively? Or am I doing something wrong? Or is there something I can tweak to make it run faster? I am currently running the client at max performance settings, which, in spite of the warning, doesn't seem to be affecting the rest of my system in any way. It's just the sim itself which takes forever.

[elfporn]

Only an hour? I would sell my soul to only have it take that long. Mr Robot's Gear Strat sim takes forever on my computer, which is admittedly a bit old. My processor is an AMD-A4-3420 APU. Is it too old to run AMR effectively? Or am I doing something wrong? Or is there something I can tweak to make it run faster? I am currently running the client at max performance settings, which, in spite of the warning, doesn't seem to be affecting the rest of my system in any way. It's just the sim itself which takes forever.

outlaw takes a lot longer, ill admit. Must be RTB, and yes there are tweaks you can do to shorten it up, i'm not sure what they are thou gh.

[Zoopercat]

@Blayke Yeah with an older computer it will take longer. We might end up decoupling trinkets from stat weights. Trinkets (and any item with a proc) takes up about half of the run-time. Since trinket procs can't be ranked from stat weights, we sim all items with procs at various iLevels and then bundle that with the stat weight report. That allows us to rank all procs directly from simulations.

But if you just want to update stat weights and keep the trinket data from your last run, that would speed it up. So we're thinking of a way to do that nicely

[DakonBlackblade]

Only an hour? I would sell my soul to only have it take that long. Mr Robot's Gear Strat sim takes forever on my computer, which is admittedly a bit old. My processor is an AMD-A4-3420 APU. Is it too old to run AMR effectively? Or am I doing something wrong? Or is there something I can tweak to make it run faster? I am currently running the client at max performance settings, which, in spite of the warning, doesn't seem to be affecting the rest of my system in any way. It's just the sim itself which takes forever.

Leave PC on running a Gearing Strategy overnight while you go to sleep, wake up with statweights waiting for you.

[Deleted]

Simcraft by far.

[Zoopercat]

@Wunju - A few things about stat weight differences between the 2 simulators:

1. AMR looks at 1000s of data points, whereas simC only looks at 2 (one above and one below your gear). When you look at only 2 data points, the slope of the line can change quite a bit depending on which 2 points you pick. So for AMR, we look at a lot of data points and then run a multiple linear regression to find the best fitting line (Slope).

2. AMR also looks at stat interactions, simC's stat scaling function does not. However, if you use simC, you CAN see stat interactions in the reforge plots.

3. Stat weights don't handle balancing stats well - it doesn't matter which simulator you use, that's the nature of stat weights. So we introduced a new method (in beta) - Machine Learning. Here's more info on that: http://blog.askmrrobot.com/machine-learning/

[Deleted]

@Zoopercat Look that´s all really nice I´m sure, but your tool is STILL suggesting mastery is bis for outlaw, which is very far from. It´s not last one now because of set bonus only, otherwise it would be dead last. The very limited time I spent with amr has given me a lot of reasons not to trust it, it needs a lot of work/polish from what I have seen of it, which is natural these kind of sims are very work intensive to perfect.

[elfporn]

@Zoopercat Look that´s all really nice I´m sure, but your tool is STILL suggesting mastery is bis for outlaw, which is very far from. It´s not last one now because of set bonus only, otherwise it would be dead last. The very limited time I spent with amr has given me a lot of reasons not to trust it, it needs a lot of work/polish from what I have seen of it, which is natural these kind of sims are very work intensive to perfect.

Swol's post on why outlaw sims are odd put rest to the reason mastery was valued high(or wasnt valued high).

After taking into account the legendaries and items that significantly affect stat values, my results mirrored swol's almost exactly.

Your opinion that mastery is never good for outlaw is just that...opinion.

The other two specs are much more straightforward in the sims, and are affected less than outlaw (by orders of magnitude) by the gear/legendaries they have.

[Deleted]

Swol's post on why outlaw sims are odd put rest to the reason mastery was valued high(or wasnt valued high).

After taking into account the legendaries and items that significantly affect stat values, my results mirrored swol's almost exactly.

Your opinion that mastery is never good for outlaw is just that...opinion.

The other two specs are much more straightforward in the sims, and are affected less than outlaw (by orders of magnitude) by the gear/legendaries they have.

Nah it´s not... Opinion, it´s simcraft data + looking at what actual top players use, ie no mastery if they can help it.