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  1. #21
    I've recently switched from feral to moonkin so I'm a little new, but I parse about 80% perc. I feel like we can only just compete in ST if we have 2/4piece and the ring / helm. We're fantastic at AoE and 'padding', but really fall behind on ST fights where it matters imo.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerxyrall View Post
    logs pls then.

    But you cant argue that if you do similar warcraftlog% than other speccs and are way behind something is wrong. And thats just a statistical fact, which can be observed over several bosses.

    If your personal experience varies from that a lot i would be suprised but it would just be an outlier.
    to be technical then, we have our fights, and other classes have their fights. cant expect to be top 5 every single fight.

    even op says that some fights we pull ahead and some fights we dont.

    its called learning to adapt.

    yes you can say the BEST of the BEST say we have problems, and i to aknowledge that we do have problems.

    but you yourself can limit them if you put more effort into playing instead of complaining.

    as i said.

    Movement is our biggest issue, as many others in this thread have stated.

    my logs as i said aint going to prove anything,
    Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler

    If you are trying to AE tank and a bad dps is attacking the wrong target and dies, we call that justice.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Kikazz View Post
    to be technical then, we have our fights, and other classes have their fights. cant expect to be top 5 every single fight.

    even op says that some fights we pull ahead and some fights we dont.

    its called learning to adapt.

    yes you can say the BEST of the BEST say we have problems, and i to aknowledge that we do have problems.

    but you yourself can limit them if you put more effort into playing instead of complaining.

    as i said.

    Movement is our biggest issue, as many others in this thread have stated.

    my logs as i said aint going to prove anything,

    The Problem is there are way more fights were we are bad then we are good at. We´re good at scorpiron (hahahaaha) spellblade, maybe tich (no idea, not that much data) .
    We are bad at anomaly, trilliax, krosus, botanist for sure. And i think staraugur elisandre guldan we will be probably bad as well.

    While for example a lot of melee classes are top 5-10 on nearly everything.

    And your approach "learn to play" instead to complain is rather fruitless....because on the lvl we are talking about the specc and not the skill is the way more limiting factor.

    And if movenment is our biggest issue then we still need buffs to compensate for that....because guess what...we have to move...we cant limit it to zero....

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Kikazz View Post
    to be technical then, we have our fights, and other classes have their fights. cant expect to be top 5 every single fight.

    even op says that some fights we pull ahead and some fights we dont.

    its called learning to adapt.

    yes you can say the BEST of the BEST say we have problems, and i to aknowledge that we do have problems.

    but you yourself can limit them if you put more effort into playing instead of complaining.

    as i said.

    Movement is our biggest issue, as many others in this thread have stated.

    my logs as i said aint going to prove anything,
    we have our fights and other classes have their fights the problem is our chart looks like this

    skorp (no one cares)
    chromatic 23/24
    Trilliax 24/24
    spellblade 3/24
    Krosus 24/24
    Tichon 9/24
    Botonist Heroic 2/24 Mythic 20/24 albeit with limited data will probably go lower
    Star augur heroic 17/24
    elesande heroic 15/24
    Guldan Heroic 21/24

    See the problem isn't that we don't have "our fights" its that We have 2 fights that we are "top 5" 1 fight where we are 9th and 7 fights that we are 15+..... with 6 of those being in the bottom 5..... and that is an issue that requires people to complain and try to get dev's attentions to get it fixed because we are the new ele shamans....... Fuck ele shamans are above us now.
    Last edited by Moshots; 2017-02-09 at 02:57 AM.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Mohoots View Post
    we have our fights and other classes have their fights the problem is our chart looks like this

    skorp (no one cares)
    chromatic 23/24
    Trilliax 24/24
    spellblade 3/24
    Krosus 24/24
    Botonist Heroic 2/24 Mythic 20/24
    Star augur heroic 17/24
    elesande heroic 15/24
    Guldan Heroic 21/24

    See the problem isn't that we don't have "our fights" its that We have 2 fights that we are "top 5" and 8 fights that we are 15+..... with 6 of those being in the bottom 5..... and that is an issue that requires people to complain and try to get dev's attentions to get it fixed because we are the new ele shamans....... Fuck ele shamans are above us now.
    Ignore my post take this one. Its much better ^^

    And its quite easy to fix. Buff solar wrath and lunar strike. Wont make us op on spellblade and would help with all the rest.

  6. #26
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Kikazz View Post
    to be technical then, we have our fights, and other classes have their fights. cant expect to be top 5 every single fight.

    even op says that some fights we pull ahead and some fights we dont.

    its called learning to adapt.

    yes you can say the BEST of the BEST say we have problems, and i to aknowledge that we do have problems.

    but you yourself can limit them if you put more effort into playing instead of complaining.

    as i said.

    Movement is our biggest issue, as many others in this thread have stated.

    my logs as i said aint going to prove anything,
    Yes we have our fights, our cheesy little lower nighthold easy padding fights

    Heres the newsflash. Those fights would be just as easy and quick without any padding from moonkins.

    The fact is that on the upper bosses, where every single ounce of dps matters and isn't padding, boomkins suck dreadfully in these situations.
    They are performing horribly, even with ED + 4set (the ring is more important now incase you haven't figured that out). They need a single target buff no matter what you personally believe.

    However you want us to learn to adapt, so then, I ask you, how can we learn to adapt to Augur, how can a boomkin compete with spriest or warrior execute, the insane burst of havoc, the churning sustained single target of rogues and frost dks, the op low targets cleave of warlocks.

    btw you said your dps range was 600k-800k? Augur, Elisande and Guldan will be ur lowest so therefore 600k. Thats way too low for the current tuning of those fights, gg.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerxyrall View Post
    The Problem is there are way more fights were we are bad then we are good at. We´re good at scorpiron (hahahaaha) spellblade, maybe tich (no idea, not that much data) .
    We are bad at anomaly, trilliax, krosus, botanist for sure. And i think staraugur elisandre guldan we will be probably bad as well.

    While for example a lot of melee classes are top 5-10 on nearly everything.

    And your approach "learn to play" instead to complain is rather fruitless....because on the lvl we are talking about the specc and not the skill is the way more limiting factor.

    And if movenment is our biggest issue then we still need buffs to compensate for that....because guess what...we have to move...we cant limit it to zero....
    the fights you list us as good at are strange, as skorp, spellblade and Tich, can be accounted to just MEMEKIN, its not an actual proper build for boss damage, its a pad spec, anomaly trilliax and krosus, i do fairly well, and get good ranks at, sure not top 10%, but still purple rankings, while others dont get that. Botanist Non Mythic i guess could also be a pad spec due to being able to memkin,

    me myself im an 899 Balance druid, and i know for a fact my failings in rankings are due to me dropping dots, or moving more than i should.

    yes you could say buff us to compensate for losing a fair bit due to movement, but then every other class would want the same treatment, and we would get what we had in mop, WHERE every class could cast while moving.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mohoots View Post
    we have our fights and other classes have their fights the problem is our chart looks like this

    skorp (no one cares)
    chromatic 23/24
    Trilliax 24/24
    spellblade 3/24
    Krosus 24/24
    Tichon 9/24
    Botonist Heroic 2/24 Mythic 20/24 albeit with limited data will probably go lower
    Star augur heroic 17/24
    elesande heroic 15/24
    Guldan Heroic 21/24

    See the problem isn't that we don't have "our fights" its that We have 2 fights that we are "top 5" 1 fight where we are 9th and 7 fights that we are 15+..... with 6 of those being in the bottom 5..... and that is an issue that requires people to complain and try to get dev's attentions to get it fixed because we are the new ele shamans....... Fuck ele shamans are above us now.
    alright put it like this, you guys are basing yourselves off of the best of the best, but you state you arent so it really shouldnt matter.

    so i guess you guys are saying that your bottom in your guilds? and look at the top and say they are/arent so thats why im at the bottom?

    i dont understand i guess i must be above average cause in our 30 man heroics im no where near the bottom on some of those fights.

    i raid with rogues dks demon hunters another balance, and hunters as well as warlocks mages shadow priests, and i sometimes beat them.

    i guess it all balls down to going off your evidence that the rest of our raiders are shit.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Foxdye View Post
    Yes we have our fights, our cheesy little lower nighthold easy padding fights

    Heres the newsflash. Those fights would be just as easy and quick without any padding from moonkins.

    The fact is that on the upper bosses, where every single ounce of dps matters and isn't padding, boomkins suck dreadfully in these situations.
    They are performing horribly, even with ED + 4set (the ring is more important now incase you haven't figured that out). They need a single target buff no matter what you personally believe.

    However you want us to learn to adapt, so then, I ask you, how can we learn to adapt to Augur, how can a boomkin compete with spriest or warrior execute, the insane burst of havoc, the churning sustained single target of rogues and frost dks, the op low targets cleave of warlocks.

    btw you said your dps range was 600k-800k? Augur, Elisande and Guldan will be ur lowest so therefore 600k. Thats way too low for the current tuning of those fights, gg.
    alright i get that you would like to see orange near the top, but your satetment that ED and 4 set play horrible IFE has always been our BIS, i would run OI instead of ED this tier just for the fact that the procs from OI would be better than they would for ED procs. outside of burst.


    and you say 600k is way to low for tuning of Heroic Guldan augr and Elisande?
    they die how is it to low? the rest of our dps are around the same mark?


    _________________________________________________________________________

    overall i guess the problem then is the fact that my dps is near on par with my guildies so i dont see the issue.
    shit dies so i guess there is no problem for me?

    i guess when more and more guilds get the kills and we start to see more and more people outside of the top 10 guilds kill the bosses we will see more class spread for bosses.

    Someone has to be at the bottom, and going off of evidence supplied, if you are in the top 10 guilds (kek), we are the bottom performer.

    but i dont look at damage as being an indicator of where we are, they are not the only things that count in a fight.

    Mechnics, raid usability they all count as well.

    druids can soak a lot of things due to bear form bark/ironfur then frenzied, or run yseras to help healers, pop inenrvate to give healers a relax on mana, i look at the overall fight, i dont look at damage and leave it there, as if the boss dies damage doesnt really matter.
    Last edited by Kikazz; 2017-02-09 at 03:15 AM.
    Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler

    If you are trying to AE tank and a bad dps is attacking the wrong target and dies, we call that justice.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Kikazz View Post

    alright put it like this, you guys are basing yourselves off of the best of the best, but you state you arent so it really shouldnt matter.

    not sure you get how ranks and percentiels in warcraftlogs work.

    Your % is for your own specc.
    If you are 80% you have made a log that is in the top20% of all moonkin logs.

    So if other speccs do also 80% and have way more dps it is a problem.

    For example here :
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11#boss=1867

    You see every specc has 75% so they performed in comparision to all logs from their specc the same.

    And you see moonkin is way on the bottom. This can be seen with most relevant bosses.

    So ist not "best of the best" its "people of my own skill/gear".
    Last edited by Nerxyrall; 2017-02-09 at 03:21 AM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerxyrall View Post
    not sure you get how ranks and percentiels in warcraftlogs work.

    Your % is for your own specc.
    If you are 80% you have made a log that is in the top20% of all moonkin logs.

    So if other speccs do also 80% and have way more dps it is a problem.
    no.

    its 80% of the Balance druids that have logged in that ilvl bracket......................

    http://imgur.com/a/vOF1B
    it does give u a list that says you ranked say 347/18900, some classes have more representation,

    and yes i know doing 450k dps on a fight where a mage does 600k is unheard of.

    i put it like this.

    we are a hybrid dps, they are a pure dps?

    who should win?

    my vote would go to the Pure Dps as they cant do as many of the things a hybrid can adapt to.
    Last edited by Kikazz; 2017-02-09 at 03:22 AM.
    Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler

    If you are trying to AE tank and a bad dps is attacking the wrong target and dies, we call that justice.

  10. #30
    Deleted
    Kikazz firstly we're not talking about heroic and secondly let me enlighten you on something to do with warcraftlog rankings, when u get a nice purple number or orange number that isnt you ranking against all other dps in the game, thats you ranking against all others balance druids in the game. 75% of the 24th lowest spec in most of the single target fights in nighthold is pretty fecking crap. And so what if you are beating some of your casual guildies.

    We dont care if your having a blast in your heroic raids with your casual guild. We care that boomkins are currently a valid replacement target on dps tight fights in upper mythic nighthold, that infact low dps beyond your control can be denying your guild the kill. Now obviously you can say someone must always be bottom and i totally agree, i do not mind being the bottom of a fairly even pile. But its not an even pile, we are very behind and you are just not informed enough to see it.

    But if you are to take anything from this comment just remember your ranked against other boomies not everyone.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kikazz View Post
    no.

    its 80% of the Balance druids that have logged in that ilvl bracket......................

    http://imgur.com/a/uwrWS
    it does give u a list that says you ranked say 347/18900, some classes have more representation,

    and yes i know doing 450k dps on a fight where a mage does 600k is unheard of.

    i put it like this.

    we are a hybrid dps, they are a pure dps?

    who should win?

    my vote would go to the Pure Dps as they cant do as many of the things a hybrid can adapt to.
    As soon as you spec Balance you are a pure dps, get out of this thread you troll monkey

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Kikazz View Post
    no.

    its 80% of the Balance druids that have logged in that ilvl bracket......................

    http://imgur.com/a/vOF1B
    it does give u a list that says you ranked say 347/18900, some classes have more representation,

    and yes i know doing 450k dps on a fight where a mage does 600k is unheard of.

    i put it like this.

    we are a hybrid dps, they are a pure dps?

    who should win?

    my vote would go to the Pure Dps as they cant do as many of the things a hybrid can adapt to.
    god...hybrid argument now......thats debated a thousand times.....hybrid tax is gone......warries, dks, (dhs) are never been subject to it.


    Since i worded it so badly and we are both obviously not native speakers i dont coment on the warcraftlogs part

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Foxdye View Post
    Kikazz firstly we're not talking about heroic and secondly let me enlighten you on something to do with warcraftlog rankings, when u get a nice purple number or orange number that isnt you ranking against all other dps in the game, thats you ranking against all others balance druids in the game. 75% of the 24th lowest spec in most of the single target fights in nighthold is pretty fecking crap. And so what if you are beating some of your casual guildies.

    We dont care if your having a blast in your heroic raids with your casual guild. We care that boomkins are currently a valid replacement target on dps tight fights in upper mythic nighthold, that infact low dps beyond your control can be denying your guild the kill. Now obviously you can say someone must always be bottom and i totally agree, i do not mind being the bottom of a fairly even pile. But its not an even pile, we are very behind and you are just not informed enough to see it.

    But if you are to take anything from this comment just remember your ranked against other boomies not everyone.

    - - - Updated - - -



    As soon as you spec Balance you are a pure dps, get out of this thread you troll monkey
    so what your asking is to not be the bottom, and be viable at every aspect of the game in Mythic content?

    and no im not in a casual guild, im actually progressing on Mythic content as well, im not on the top tier yet, as probably you might be.

    but asking blizzard to make every single spec within a few 100 dps of each other or even 10k is a bit much as blizzard cant factor for any of the following

    • RNG - Will you get targeted by this or not?
    • Skill -
    • latency


    yes i see you are quoting the fact we are 23/24 on a lot of fights when looking at top end logs.

    but as i stated the whole class isnt represented by the top end logs. as they play on a different level.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerxyrall View Post
    god...hybrid argument now......thats debated a thousand times.....hybrid tax is gone......warries, dks, (dhs) are never been subject to it.


    Since i worded it so badly and we are both obviously not native speakers i dont coment on the warcraftlogs part
    Sorry, i try but i must not convey message good enough, all good over this topic for now, many people tell me im wrong i will drop subject.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Foxdye View Post
    As soon as you spec Balance you are a pure dps, get out of this thread you troll monkey
    ok can a mage change to a tank mid fight, can they pop out and heal?

    can they taunt when a tank needs a reprieve?

    hence hybrid.
    Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler

    If you are trying to AE tank and a bad dps is attacking the wrong target and dies, we call that justice.

  13. #33
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Kikazz View Post
    so what your asking is to not be the bottom, and be viable at every aspect of the game in Mythic content?

    and no im not in a casual guild, im actually progressing on Mythic content as well, im not on the top tier yet, as probably you might be.

    but asking blizzard to make every single spec within a few 100 dps of each other or even 10k is a bit much as blizzard cant factor for any of the following

    • RNG - Will you get targeted by this or not?
    • Skill -
    • latency


    yes i see you are quoting the fact we are 23/24 on a lot of fights when looking at top end logs.

    but as i stated the whole class isnt represented by the top end logs. as they play on a different level.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Sorry, i try but i must not convey message good enough, all good over this topic for now, many people tell me im wrong i will drop subject.
    Balance druids are in the bottom 5 dps overall in nighthold from the 5th percentile to the 75th percentile and then they are 18/24 in the 100th percentile overall that is. Now this is overall data thats actually weighted heavily in our favour because it does not yet include the upper fights which will drag our average down further.

    You are happy because your a >80th percentile balance druid beating 0-75th percentile other specs which should always be the case.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Kikazz View Post
    so what your asking is to not be the bottom, and be viable at every aspect of the game in Mythic content?

    and no im not in a casual guild, im actually progressing on Mythic content as well, im not on the top tier yet, as probably you might be.

    but asking blizzard to make every single spec within a few 100 dps of each other or even 10k is a bit much as blizzard cant factor for any of the following

    • RNG - Will you get targeted by this or not?
    • Skill -
    • latency


    yes i see you are quoting the fact we are 23/24 on a lot of fights when looking at top end logs.

    but as i stated the whole class isnt represented by the top end logs. as they play on a different level.
    a 50% boomkin is losing to a 50% of 23 other classes just like a 99% boomkin is losing to 99% of 23 other classes..... Your literally trying to make a point that we what happens in LFR or normal mode guilds should matter in class balancing? news flash if your bad at the game that isn't blizzards problem the game should be balanced around what the best can do and if you can't play your class thats not blizzards fault most classes have 4 button rotations now if you can't click 4 buttons idk........ The other 23 classes are getting the same RNG/latency and when your looking at the top 100 or 200 players the same skill..... The only difference is our class does dick for damage single target and their classes are actually doing damage.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Kikazz View Post
    so what your asking is to not be the bottom, and be viable at every aspect of the game in Mythic content?

    and no im not in a casual guild, im actually progressing on Mythic content as well, im not on the top tier yet, as probably you might be.

    but asking blizzard to make every single spec within a few 100 dps of each other or even 10k is a bit much as blizzard cant factor for any of the following

    • RNG - Will you get targeted by this or not?
    • Skill -
    • latency


    yes i see you are quoting the fact we are 23/24 on a lot of fights when looking at top end logs.

    but as i stated the whole class isnt represented by the top end logs. as they play on a different level.

    - - - Updated - - -
    It doesnt really mtter if you look at 75% or 25% the picture is the same.(So even with lower skilled players and not "top end logs")
    And with rng/skill/latency...the thing is thats why we look at the logs for averages. Because every specc is subjekt to these things to a degree. And when looking at for example 75% we can asume that all got targeted etc about the same amount.

    The problem is the discrepancy is too big. Nobody would complain if we would be middleish on singel target or if we were bottom by 50k dps to the top. But its more like over 100k dps.

    Sorry, i try but i must not convey message good enough, all good over this topic for now, many people tell me im wrong i will drop subject.

    - - - Updated - - -
    Wasnt meant as an insult or anything.


    ok can a mage change to a tank mid fight, can they pop out and heal?

    can they taunt when a tank needs a reprieve?

    hence hybrid.


    The thing is thats our utility.
    Taunt a boss and heal a very limited bit. Other "pure" dps classes have other utility (for example mage with ice block to negate mechanics completly) and most pure dps have more selfhealing then we do and dont loose that much dps while doing it.

    And since our utility isnt greater than what others bring it shouldnt be an argument to being not capable to do as much dmg as "pure" dps classes. Especially because it doesnt affect all "hybrids".
    Last edited by Nerxyrall; 2017-02-09 at 04:07 AM.

  16. #36
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Kikazz View Post
    ok can a mage change to a tank mid fight, can they pop out and heal?

    can they taunt when a tank needs a reprieve?

    hence hybrid.
    In mythic I can take a total of 2 hits (roughly 2 GCDs of time) from most of the bosses in bearform with guardian affinity before i die. A mage can cauterize and survive a killing blow entirely.

    And yes mages can heal health back by blinking while also casting damage. We can cast 3-4 heals for 300k non-crit or so before going oom, a total of 4 GCDs wasted doing nothing, while also being forced to be stationary.

    I'd say thats even enough to call a mage a hybrid if u call a balance druid a hybrid.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Kikazz View Post
    ok can a mage change to a tank mid fight, can they pop out and heal?
    can they taunt when a tank needs a reprieve?
    hence hybrid.
    Could you please post your log to support your argument that you are progressing on Mythic.
    I cannot believe that a Mythic raider will say something like this.

  18. #38
    I really feel like Nature's Balance just needs a damage component tacked on to make our ST more competitive. Increased empowerment damage similar to sotf. Something that won't make ED even more required for ST.
    Whaleshark /spits on your science.

  19. #39
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Irefusetodie View Post
    I really feel like Nature's Balance just needs a damage component tacked on to make our ST more competitive. Increased empowerment damage similar to sotf. Something that won't make ED even more required for ST.
    Even before 7.1.5 people have been suggesting that Nature's Balance should be baked into the spec, which i agree on, and then have a more powerful single target talent there, something that increases our solar wrath by 20% when both dots are up or something like that. But thats rework territory and its not going to happen

  20. #40
    good thing they nerfed our 4pc right before release. Whew. Otherwise we...oh...wait....

    I mean, it's never good to fix a core problem with a set bonus, but man it's weird to make a weakness weaker by nerfing something. Just suggests a deep misunderstanding of how the class functions.
    Last edited by thedeisel; 2017-02-09 at 10:23 PM.

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