Brexit demographics

[Runenwächter]

So why reference Afghan refugees in Germany to support your argument when we are talking about EU immigrants in the UK?

The UK has always had full control of non-EU immigration and brexit doesn't change that.

I am not talking about refugees, refugees deserve protection under the law and are an entirely different matter. I think thats an interesting topic and deserving attention what europe can and should do, but it is absolutely not what I am talking about.

I was talking about the differences you experience when you come about people of different cultures, especially very conservative ones (when it comes to gender equality yada yada), in low income, low education settings and high income, high education settings.
In the example I proposed I used "afghan" nationality as merely a placeholder for "very foreign". I mean whats not to like about having an afghani doctor as your neighbor? Except that he is taking up the space of two supermodells, fucking nothing.

I think citizenship is easier to obtain in some EU countries than it is on others, especially for people from former colonial teritories. Which the countries of europe have had many of. The UK themselves has debated how to handle the fallout that comes with free movement and the right to settle within the empire for not decades but probably centuries. France has been experiencing the consequences for several decades at least.

You will have to seek your debate about inter EU migration, especially the case of workers from eastern europe migrating for work into the UK, with someone else though. I think expanding the EU east was a bright idea, although it lacked refinement in its execution. I dont approve Brexit, I think it was a bad idea.
However I get why some people feel differently about it. I think many saw the vote for Brexit as a surrogate and a means to send a message.

[Rockyreg]

I never called anyone "lazy" that's your description not mine.
Eh, no I haven't asked all British farm workers etc why they don't want to work, nor have you. All those jobs you listed are minimum wage jobs, if employers are paying below minimum wage to immigrant workers they are breaking the law and should be prosecuted. The fact is that immigrant workers are harder working and more reliable than their indigenous counterparts.

Unbelievable, you have empirical evidence for such a claim as above do you or is this yet another general generalisation?

I never said camp brexit would stop immigration, camp brexit said they would reduce immigrant numbers to the tens of thousands and come 24/6/16 they quickly distanced theirselves from that promise. There is a very good reason for that. The uk needs the level of immigration it currently has.

I'm afraid this is just incorrect. The 'tens of thousands' came from the Conservative party in 2010. 'Camp Brexit' said no such thing, they put no hard figures on this unless you can find me a link that disproves this.

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I can understand the problems in the South East, but Norfolk? Houses are almost buy 1 get 1 free there.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-...ludeSSTC=false

Plenty for 4.5 x national salary plus small deposit.

Great Yarmouth (teen pregnancy capital of the UK) is a special case, nobody wants to live there unless they have to.

I'm probably giving too much away but this is my neck of the woods and the type of problem we have here.

http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/det...UmbdcKecr2g.97

[dribbles]

Great Yarmouth (teen pregnancy capital of the UK) is a special case, nobody wants to live there unless they have to

I'm probably giving too much away but this is my neck of the woods and the type of problem we have here.

http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/det...UmbdcKecr2g.97

Ah I see, don't know Norfolk well. All I think is that once we are out from the shackles of the protectionist EU who are restricting how banks operate and what they can lend, property prices will continue to fly on their upward trajectory quickly and it's never soon enough to get on the property ladder. Even if you can't afford the greatest area some bricks and mortar anywhere are better than none at all. If Yarmouth is the teen pregnancy capital, always seemed nice when I went as a kid, demand for property will always be assured.

[May90]

No. They know how to analyze astrophysical data, but not economical. Economics is not hard science. Logic in economics is not intuitive. Demand invites Supply but Supply can create Demand. Cause and effect are one and the same. That was just an example.

No one knows how economics truly works, not even economists.

In fact logic, scientific method and being used to analyse astrophysical data will be DETRIMENTAL to understanding economics. Average Joe might be more capable given that he LIVES closer to it. Common sense beats Scientific sense in Economics.

Economics is the same science as any other science: you use logic to analyze the available data and to make conclusions based on it. Logic in economics is just as intuitive as anywhere else, you just picked a deliberate example in which one does not understand a basic concept of positive feedback.

Common sense and scientific sense are fundamentally the same: you use common sense, which is a part of basic logic, in scientific method.

Said both sides.

One side says that it is clear that 2+2=4, because it follows from the definition of summation. The other says that it is clear that 2+2=5, because f!@k globalism. These statements aren't exactly equal.

[Rockyreg]

http://www.workpermit.com/news/uks-t...youth-20140121

So he has discovered this by talking to employers, the people who have a vested interest in making sure things remain the same.

From UKIP 2015 manifesto:
https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.ne...pdf?1429295050

This is a UKIP manifesto for the 2015 General Election which has nothing to do with 'Camp Brexit'.

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Ah I see, don't know Norfolk well. All I think is that once we are out from the shackles of the protectionist EU who are restricting how banks operate and what they can lend, property prices will continue to fly on their upward trajectory quickly and it's never soon enough to get on the property ladder. Even if you can't afford the greatest area some bricks and mortar anywhere are better than none at all. If Yarmouth is the teen pregnancy capital, always seemed nice when I went as a kid, demand for property will always be assured.

Its more that the kids are settled in school so wouldn't want to uproot them to move. As a renter I'm hoping that house prices level off (that is until I can afford to buy)

[Elim Garak]

Economics is the same science as any other science

No. Its theories do not have predictive power required for them to be scientific.

Common sense and scientific sense are fundamentally the same: you use common sense, which is a part of basic logic, in scientific method.

No. Scientific sense is more specialized and thus limited.

One side says that it is clear that 2+2=4, because it follows from the definition of summation. The other says that it is clear that 2+2=5, because f!@k globalism. These statements aren't exactly equal.

No. One side says the electron spins up, the other side says it spins down. And the Schrodinger's cat cba to educate them about quantum entanglement.

[May90]

No. Its theories do not have predictive power required for them to be scientific.

No. Scientific sense is more specialized and thus limited.

No. One side says the electron spins up, the other side says it spins down. And the Schrodinger's cat cba to educate them about quantum entanglement.

Emm, what? Economics is all about predicting the outcome of economical decisions, mate. You are basically saying that, just because one can't predict everything in economy with 100% certainty, predictions are useless - they are not.

One side says that the electron has either spin up or spin down, but it cannot have both spin up and spin down at the same time. The other side says, "Yeah, but you don't know whether it is spin up or spin down, do you? So your knowledge is worthless, and we shouldn't listen to you and we must make up our own mind based on nothing but wishful thinking". This isn't how it works, dude.

[kamuimac]

Great Yarmouth (teen pregnancy capital of the UK) is a special case, nobody wants to live there unless they have to.

I'm probably giving too much away but this is my neck of the woods and the type of problem we have here.

http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/det...UmbdcKecr2g.97

beggars cant be choosers

harsh i know but its true - if you cant afford something maybe settle for less and then in 5-10 years reevaluate situation sell 1 property and buy better one instead wasting life on unreachable in this particular moment in time dreams.
still better investment then paying random joe every month and having next to none out of it in long term.

[Elim Garak]

Emm, what? Economics is all about predicting the outcome of economical decisions, mate. You are basically saying that, just because one can't predict everything in economy with 100% certainty, predictions are useless - they are not.

Fortune tellers are also all about predicting stuff, mate. That's not what I meant.
The problem with economics is you basically cannot predict ANYTHING with 100% accuracy. That's the problem of economics as science.
In physics for instance you can predict what will happen if you drop an apple from Trump's tower. It will fall on Trump's head as he leaves the building. With economics you cannot. It might fall on Trump's head, or it might fall in Melania's purse or it might be on sale and thus would rise instead. Nobody knows for sure.

One side says that the electron has either spin up or spin down, but it cannot have both spin up and spin down at the same time. The other side says, "Yeah, but you don't know whether it is spin up or spin down, do you? So your knowledge is worthless, and we shouldn't listen to you and we must make up our own mind based on nothing but wishful thinking". This isn't how it works, dude.

No dude, stop pretending that one side knows it all and the other are stupids, because this way I cannot tell which is which. And that proves my point.

[Tommi]

Both brexit camps lied about reducing immigration, unfortunate that the brexit muppets bought those lies.

You mean politicians don't tell the truth!?

[Mormolyce]

Both brexit camps lied about reducing immigration, unfortunate that the brexit muppets bought those lies.

Seems like the kind of thing education might help with.

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Not being funny but "graduates" mean nothing in the UK, because the value of a degree has diminished so much that any one with even D grade A levels is capable of going to University.

Most of them are out of work afterwords or doing jobs that have absolutely nothing to do with their stupidly expensive degree in business studies or economics.

The graduates I work with make dumb mistakes because they think they know everything and in fact one of the biggest problems we face in the UK is a lack of skilled workers, not smart arse uni graduates.

One of the best decisions I ever made was not going to university and doing a diploma on the job. Most of the smartest and highest earning people in my sector do not have PHD's, some barely went to college.

I.E your graph is a load of shit, just like the BBC.

Okay so let me follow your logic. It's okay that Brexiteers were less educated because getting an education doesn't make you smart... therefore the graph showing Brexiteers were less educated is wrong.

See, this kind of logic error is the sort of thing they teach you about in college.

[ati87]

No. Its theories do not have predictive power required for them to be scientific.

No. Scientific sense is more specialized and thus limited.

No. One side says the electron spins up, the other side says it spins down. And the Schrodinger's cat cba to educate them about quantum entanglement.

You can't predict the exact effect of certain policies but you can easily predict if the direction of certain economic policies will be positive or negative. Policy could have added a thousand jobs or eleven hundred.

Trickle down economics is stupid and never worked, the western economie is based on movement of money and that happens when the 99% of the people spend money and not the 1% buying boats and expensive alcohol.

[Deleted]

So much for the "those who voted for Brexit were stupid" narrative.

"populations with lower qualifications were significantly more likely to vote Leave."

Wtf happened to OT, people shitpost so much that they can't even read, it fucking seems.

Was OT always this stupid?

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Seems like a failure of education.

I lol'ed. This was genuinly clever.

[Elim Garak]

You can't predict the exact effect of certain policies but you can easily predict if the direction of certain economic policies will be positive or negative. Policy could have added a thousand jobs or eleven hundred.

Trickle down economics is stupid and never worked, the western economie is based on movement of money and that happens when the 99% of the people spend money and not the 1% buying boats and expensive alcohol.

No you really can't. Coincidences are just that. There's no system of prediction.
It all comes down to a simple fact. Economics is a "science" of what PEOPLE do with their possessions. It's in the same league as Sociology and Psychology as far as sciences go. You can build a pretty neat mathematical model of the country's economy and then watch PEOPLE throw it outta window.
The only things that economics can predict are the same things ANYONE can predict. Offer a 50% off sale, and you MIGHT get more sales. DUH. Thank you mister economist who spent years studying economics to make THIS prediction.

[Deleted]

That's all irrelevant. A brilliant astrophysicist is not better at understanding say economics than an average Joe. Specialization is the thing. Hell Astrophysicists often suck at other physics specializations and vice versa.

And don't confuse smartness with IQ with intelligence. Being an academic might not be the smartest thing in the grand scheme of things. Being a plumber in a world that needs more plumbers might be smarter. That was just an example.

In a world where THE EXPERTS cannot agree on the long term results of Brexit. Anyone, I repeat ANYONE is smart enough to decide what's best. Because all we can agree on - with brexit life will continue in one way, without it in another and no one knows which is better LONG TERM. I said KNOWS. Everybody knows there will be issues SHORT TERM after Brexit. They are expected, they are even calculated. One side just screams "The end is nigh" the other "oh get a grip you lil' cunt, we'll pull through".

This is not coherent logic.

No-one being able to assert the right answer, does not increase qualifications towards a good end result for everyone.

There is literally NO Connection of logic, there.

[Chemii]

Okay so let me follow your logic. It's okay that Brexiteers were less educated because getting an education doesn't make you smart... therefore the graph showing Brexiteers were less educated is wrong.

See, this kind of logic error is the sort of thing they teach you about in college.

To argue that graduates are more intelligent than citizens who didn't go to University at all is wrong, that's my point. Anyone who reads a book or two has the same education, as is the terrible system we have here. It's mostly fostered to keep people in debt for decades, hence they keep raising student fees to astronomical amounts, students no less with worse A level grades than me in a lot of cases.

The skilled work force for example, who are subjected to stupid EU legislation on a daily basis, might feel the EU was working against them, rather than for them - right or wrong that is just an example.

To automatically assume that a lack of graduates voting exit must mean the people who voted exit are dumb is flat out ignorant and doesn't "explain" anything. It's similar to the highly media supported notion that it comes down to racism and while that might be true in a lot of cases, not everyone who voted out cares about our border control, we need migrants to keep our skilled workforce strong and our economy moving.

Disputing the the graph was a mistake in a literal sense, I merely meant using it as evidence to indicate a lack of intelligence was stupid.

[Deleted]

To argue that graduates are more intelligent than citizens who didn't go to University at all is wrong, that's my point. Anyone who reads a book or two has the same education, as is the terrible system we have here. It's mostly fostered to keep people in debt for decades, hence they keep raising student fees to astronomical amounts, students no less with worse A level grades than me in a lot of cases.

The skilled work force for example, who are subjected to stupid EU legislation on a daily basis, might feel the EU was working against them, rather than for them - right or wrong that is just an example.

To automatically assume that a lack of graduates voting exit must mean the people who voted exit are dumb is flat out ignorant and doesn't "explain" anything. It's similar to the highly media supported notion that it comes down to racism and while that might be true in a lot of cases, not everyone who voted out cares about our border control, we need migrants to keep our skilled workforce strong and our economy moving.

Disputing the the graph was a mistake in a literal sense, I merely meant using it as evidence to indicate a lack of intelligence was stupid.

I agree with this point.

You can't conclude the intelligence of a person, on the mere metric of a gated educational system.

There is a lot of reasons to why you'd qualify for studies, but intelligence does not coherently have to relate to that, at all. You merely have to have ambition, time and be above the level of comprehending whatever you are reading.

Which, does not really leave you "intelligent", more so than "Could read and understand abstract concepts". As in, "Can read", lol.

[Deleted]

That's literally what the first plot suggests.

Not having a college degree makes you stupid? Besides when the last generation grew up they didn't need a bachelors degree to teach kindergarten like we do now.
The inflation in our educational system is out of control. It seems most people in college are barely literate.

[Mormolyce]

To argue that graduates are more intelligent than citizens who didn't go to University at all is wrong, that's my point. Anyone who reads a book or two has the same education, as is the terrible system we have here. It's mostly fostered to keep people in debt for decades, hence they keep raising student fees to astronomical amounts, students no less with worse A level grades than me in a lot of cases.

The skilled work force for example, who are subjected to stupid EU legislation on a daily basis, might feel the EU was working against them, rather than for them - right or wrong that is just an example.

To automatically assume that a lack of graduates voting exit must mean the people who voted exit are dumb is flat out ignorant and doesn't "explain" anything. It's similar to the highly media supported notion that it comes down to racism and while that might be true in a lot of cases, not everyone who voted out cares about our border control, we need migrants to keep our skilled workforce strong and our economy moving.

Disputing the the graph was a mistake in a literal sense, I merely meant using it as evidence to indicate a lack of intelligence was stupid.

For the record I don't think college graduates are necessarily smarter than people without college degrees. That would be a silly statement.

This is not just about college though.

The correlation is strong, whether based on assessing graduate and equivalent qualifications or lower-level ones.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38762034

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Not having a college degree makes you stupid?

No, the graph is saying that less educated people voted Brexit.

[Deleted]

It's curious to see how people who would probably describe themselves as on the left defend or glorify the destruction and abuse of the working class in the west.

The lack of social solidarity is astoumding, here in Sweden our 3rd largest city of Malmö is basically on the brink of blowing up, it's a massive net drain on our state funds and people are failing to even graduate grade school because lack of teachers, schools. We are unable to render life saving services like fire reaponse, ambulances or police in some parts of the city and when they do get there you are trained to be prepared for physical assault. Organized crime has a massive grip on the housing in the city, so that you may not rent or buy a house without their influence and on that note, they house these migrants/refugees and collect money on nilkimg poor prople from across the world.

The EU is going to shit and I think it's only going to get worse before it gets better.

http://www.sydsvenskan.se/2002-09-27...-hyr-in-larare

http://www.sydsvenskan.se/2016-03-28...b-i-malmo-stad

http://www.svd.se/55-no-go-zoner-i-sverige

http://www.sydsvenskan.se/2016-06-27...r-ett-eget-hem

http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel...rtikel=6340607

http://www.migrationsverket.se/Andra...-uthyrare.html

http://avpixlat.info/2016/01/08/soci...iminella-gang/

I dont imagine it being very different from other places in europe, remember how Merkel forcefully took ownership of peoples estates and houses?