The hypocrisy of abortion not '' being murder ''

[May90]

I heard there's a method some men have been using to avoid having children that has a 99.99% success rate.

What about the rest 0.01%? *scared look*

[Mekh]

I heard there's a method some men have been using to avoid having children that has a 99.99% success rate.

Lies, only women can use contraception and if they do they are dirty hoes who can't keep their legs closed! /s

[Raelbo]

He has a point though, males wont get anything for their pain when a woman goes through an abortion that he is against. The guy does experience emotional pain because of this action, but there is no compensation for him.

Sorry but I really don't see how this is relevant. Just because there are some similarities does not create an equivalance.

It basically comes down to an issue of precedence. You cannot rationally argue that a man's emotional pain of losing an unborn child trumps a woman's right to bodily autonomy. Now, if you could prove that a woman purposefully fell pregnant for the sole intention of getting an abortion and in so doing cause emotional harm to her partner, then I believe you would have a case. Good luck with that though.

[pateuvasiliu]

I heard there's a method some men have been using to avoid having children that has a 99.99% success rate.

Abstinency?

You might be surprised to find out there have been males raped that still had to pay child support.

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Not everything fits into neat little boxes where everything is fair, unfortunately.

Haha, nice, I'm sure that explanation will really help the dude that's depressed over his kid being dead.

Meanwhile the woman's emotional pain is factored in in cases like this one.

You people have no notion of equality.

Who the fuck cares who the kid is inside? Are you saying a mother can love a fetus more than the father because the kid isn't inside him? That's just bogus.

Either you take the emotional pain of both into account or none. You can't have it the sexist way.

I mean, you can, because the law hates men, but you shouldn't.

[Revi]

Because personal feelings should not constitute whether rights apply or not.

Abortion is legal because a fetus is not legally a person.

Not because the mother doesn't want it.


So even if a mother wants the kid, that doesn't make it a person.

Abortion is legal by the mother because it's in her body though. If a woman donates eggs for someone else to carry the child, the donator of the eggs does not have the right to force an abortion on the woman carrying the child.

If we make machines that can carry a child from conception to birth, the woman no longer has sole rights to decide to turn of the machine to kill the child.

Bodily autonomy is a big part of this.

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Haha, nice, I'm sure that explanation will really help the dude that's depressed over his kid being dead.

Meanwhile the woman's emotional pain is factored in in cases like this one.

You people have no notion of equality.

There's a big difference between violations of your body that make you depressed, and events happening to others that make you depressed.

If you're raped and emotionally scared from it, the courts can give you restitution from the rapist in the form of money, on top of his prison sentence.

You are not entitled to anything from the courts if you're emotionally scared by someone else getting raped though.

Not everything hurtful is meant to be mended by the court. Doesn't mean it doesn't suck, it's just not a legal issue.

[pateuvasiliu]

Abortion is legal by the mother because it's in her body though. If a woman donates eggs for someone else to carry the child, the donator of the eggs does not have the right to force an abortion on the woman carrying the child.

If we make machines that can carry a child from conception to birth, the woman no longer has sole rights to decide to turn of the machine to kill the child.

Bodily autonomy is a big part of this.

Abortion isn't taking the kid out of the body, though, it's outright smashing it to pieces. So it's not just '' get out of my body '' it's '' I'll meatgrind you out ''.

So

Abortion is legal by the mother because it's in her body though

Doesn't hold much water.

[May90]

You people have no notion of equality.
...
I mean, you can, because the law hates men, but you shouldn't.

The nature also hates men. You can read it here, for example:

https://www.amazon.com/Where-Did-Com.../dp/0818402539

Pretty funny to what lengths some people go in order to play a victim.

[procne]

Look, the child was a part of her body. An important one. He caused the fatal failure of HER body part, without, or rather, AGAINST HER consent.

That's a case of poisoning with detrimental effect on someone's health. How many years should he get if, say, he caused a kidney failure?

[Deleted]

Abortion isn't taking the kid out of the body, though, it's outright smashing it to pieces. So it's not just '' get out of my body '' it's '' I'll meatgrind you out ''.

So



Doesn't hold much water.

You ought to check what a medical abortion is.

[pateuvasiliu]

Look, the child was a part of her body. An important one. He caused the fatal failure of HER body part, without, or rather, AGAINST HER consent.

That's a case of poisoning with detrimental effect on someone's health. How many years should he get if, say, he caused a kidney failure?

Kidney failures are life threatening in 100% of cases, though.

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You ought to check what a medical abortion is.

A medical abortion is what happened in the OP, no?

So why are people up in riots about 'poisoning' ?

[Mormolyce]

(A) Seven years is entirely appropriate. Not that that's really relevant as he hasn't even been sentenced yet.
(B) Fetal homicide laws are pushed by pro-lifers as a backdoor method of enforcing their ideology. They are not proposed by the pro choice movement.
(C) This is Norway? Does it even have fetal homicide laws?

A medical abortion is what happened in the OP, no?

Um, no?

[Revi]

Abortion isn't taking the kid out of the body, though, it's outright smashing it to pieces. So it's not just '' get out of my body '' it's '' I'll meatgrind you out ''.

So



Doesn't hold much water.

What are they gonna do, transfer it to the fathers stomach and hope it survives?

It's a practical issues. At the age abortion is legal in most countries, the baby either can't survive or has a very small chance of surviving with big major developmental issues. It's unfair because nature is unfair, not because we've decided it should be like that.

If we ever get technology and the medical knowledge to reliable develop fetuses outside of a human body there's a discussion to be had, but until then this contention doesn't make sense.

[Machismo]

The OP is clearly screwing with people, and doing the word we are not allowed to mention. The entire reason that abortion is legal in most places, is that the individual has freedom over her own body. That's it, think about it. The guy poisoned her, and it resulted in the death of her fetus. It would be no different than if he had hit her in the stomach with a baseball bat, and killed the fetus.

[pateuvasiliu]

What are they gonna do, transfer it to the fathers stomach and hope it survives?

It's a practical issues. At the age abortion is legal in most countries, the baby either can't survive or has a very small chance of surviving with big major developmental issues. It's unfair because nature is unfair, not because we've decided it should be like that.

If we ever get technology and the medical knowledge to reliable develop fetuses outside of a human body there's a discussion to be had, but until then this contention doesn't make sense.

Well, there's a difference between letting someone die and killing him yourself.

[Deleted]

Not everything fits into neat little boxes where everything is fair, unfortunately. The issues surrounding childbirth can't ever be totally equal, because they're completely one-sided biologically. Only the woman is physically pregnant.

That is not the point, the point is emotional pain should not matter. You can not blame one side for emotional damage while not taking any notion of the emotional damage caused to the other side.
That childbirth is mostly a biological thing doesn't really matter either, males do not get pregnant, yet they are more responsible for a womans pregnancy then any female will ever be. See, we tend to change these things to alleviate the burden a bit. It is just that western society has went way way overboard with this notion.

We're doing a good job making things more equal when the child is alive, because at that stage both parents are in the same situation. But we can't make pregnancies equal.

Since when exactly?? Last time i checked it was anything but equal, males almost never get full custody, didn't get a say if they wanted to become a parent in the first place and can not give up the child for adoption if he wants to.

We could do things about the legal obligations of men who are made fathers against their will, but we can't punish women for having abortions, that'd conflict with the right to bodily autonomy. Making women pay restitution to the father for having an abortion just goes against the morals we've built our laws on.

How does it go against the morals we have built our laws on? One is causing emotional harm to another, that other person should be compensated for that, at least, those are the current standings of our law.
The only "moral" this goes against is feminism and womans wants, that is not something that deserves saving.

[zoomgpally]

Abortion is legal because a fetus is not legally a person.

Abortion is legal if done by the mother, or a medical professional with good reasons.

A kidney isn't a person either, should it be legal to drug people and steal their kidneys to sell on the black market?

[Revi]

Well, there's a difference between letting someone die and killing him yourself.

So you would be fine with this, as long as they let the child die on its own outside the woman's body, causing it more pain?

[pateuvasiliu]

The entire reason that abortion is legal in most places, is that the individual has freedom over her own body.

Yes and no. Abortion isn't considered murder because the fetus is not legally a person. It gains beta personhood when abortion becomes illegal ( and I call it beta personhood because they can still be aborted in the case of defects ) and actual personhood upon birth, when you can't do shit to the kid.

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Abortion is legal if done by the mother, or a medical professional with good reasons.

A kidney isn't a person either, should it be legal to drug people and steal their kidneys to sell on the black market?

No, because that's

1. Kidnapping
2. Drugging
3. Mutilation

[Deleted]

What are they gonna do, transfer it to the fathers stomach and hope it survives?

It's a practical issues. At the age abortion is legal in most countries, the baby either can't survive or has a very small chance of surviving with big major developmental issues. It's unfair because nature is unfair, not because we've decided it should be like that.

If we ever get technology and the medical knowledge to reliable develop fetuses outside of a human body there's a discussion to be had, but until then this contention doesn't make sense.

If "nature is unfair" really is an argument then fathers that didn't want to become father would not be considered fathers, yet somehow we made laws that state that he is the father if he wants to or not.

[Phlegethon]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-10105953.html

''A man who induced his ex-girlfriend’s miscarriage in her twelfth week of pregnancy by tricking her into taking abortion pills he had slipped into a smoothie, claims his actions were “the only way out”.

''


So it's fine to abort, because, you know, the fetus isn't a person. No harm done there, just a bunch of cells.


But when a guy gives a woman abortion pills, the prosecutors push for 7 years of jail?

Now I'm not saying that what this dude did is cool, hormone pills fuck up your body and all that.

But 7 years? Holy hell I could beat someone up real good and I wouldn't get anywhere near that.


Emotional pain?

When women abort a child a man would want, he can't sue for emotional pain. What's the difference?


So by all means, tell me how, if a fetus is not a person and has no rights, giving a pregnant woman abortion pills is any different ( in the eyes of the law ) than giving a non pregnant woman abortion pills.

You're unwittingly giving someone substances they did not consent to. Definitely, no problem with that. Crime, shit move.

But I'm pretty sure you wouldn't get years in prison for that.

The pregnant woman is treated differently, despite the fetus having no rights.

Where's the logic here?

I found a case of poisoning where the dude nearly died and the crazy bitch that poisoned him got a measly 10 years. How can those situations compare?

Yeah no, that's what they call equality.
Her body her choice, whatever the fuck the man wants has nothing to do with it, because you know equality.

Don't worry, the woman's march just had a speaker that turtured a man to death. It's all good. They are not the crazies at all.