1. #1

    Nixon 2.0: What did they know and when did they know it?

    So yeah this is not good

    Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.fa149038aa13

    National security adviser Michael Flynn privately discussed U.S. sanctions against Russia with that country’s ambassador to the United States during the month before President Trump took office, contrary to public assertions by Trump officials, current and former U.S. officials said.

    Flynn’s communications with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak were interpreted by some senior U.S. officials as an inappropriate and potentially illegal signal to the Kremlin that it could expect a reprieve from sanctions that were being imposed by the Obama administration in late December to punish Russia for its alleged interference in the 2016 election.
    This is now the part where Flynn gets thrown under the bus

    https://twitter.com/gregpmiller/stat...05770896617472

    Just adding admin comment on Pence/Flynn: "An administration official stressed that VP Pence based his comments on his convo with Gen Flynn"
    Next step is Flynn either rolls over on Pence or possibly faces treason charges for conspiring with a foreign government

  2. #2
    The Lightbringer Caolela's Avatar
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    It may be a conspiracy to cover up, and I can't stand the Trumpettes. If they did this then they should be punished under the law.

    But this bullshit about Russia hacking the election is raw agitprop. That I'm aware of there has never been any actual evidence put forth that any hacking took place.

    If someone has an unimpeachable source and hard evidence, I'll be glad to check it out. I don't want to hear bullshit like "national security" or "classified, we can't show it but it happened".

    Obama and the Dems are once again talking right through their asses for obvious ulterior motives.
    Last edited by Caolela; 2017-02-10 at 06:38 AM.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Puremallace View Post
    So yeah this is not good

    Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.fa149038aa13



    This is now the part where Flynn gets thrown under the bus

    https://twitter.com/gregpmiller/stat...05770896617472



    Next step is Flynn either rolls over on Pence or possibly faces treason charges for conspiring with a foreign government
    Flynn was already out of favor with Trump apparently. This may be teeing him up to being entirely pushed out.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Caolela View Post

    If someone has an unimpeachable source and hard evidence, I'll be glad to check it out. I don't want to hear bullshit like "national security" or "classified, we can't show it but it happened".

    Obama and the Dems are once again talking right through their asses for obvious ulterior motives.
    Doubt we will see the classified reports unfortunately. They did release the 13 page reports with indications the hacks came from the FSB in Russia. Something is clearly going on. Flynn is pretty much out at this point with the administration throwing him under the bus.

  5. #5
    Over 9000! ringpriest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caolela View Post
    It may be a conspiracy to cover up, and I can't stand the Trumpettes. If they did this then they should be punished under the law.

    But this bullshit about Russia hacking the election is raw agitprop. That I'm aware of there has never been any actual evidence put forth that any hacking took place.

    If someone has an unimpeachable source and hard evidence, I'll be glad to check it out. I don't want to hear bullshit like "national security" or "classified, we can't show it but it happened".

    Obama and the Dems are once again talking right through their asses for obvious ulterior motives.
    Russia hacking the election directly, as in accessing voting machines, tabulating machines, etc and then altering the results? I don't think there's any evidence for that at all I don't think any such thing happened (it's basically flat-earth, or fake moon-landing level nuttiness afaik) - and while there's certainly spin in that direction, I don't think the US government or Democratic party ever claimed it either.

    Russia hacking the election, via directly breaking into DNC servers, and then that material showing up at disadvantageous times for the Clinton campaign? The evidence of that was both public and pretty definitive back last summer; here's Cloudstrike's bit on it:"Bears in the Midst: Intrusion into the Democratic National Committee", and here's Bruce Schneier's post on the subject: "Russian Hack of the DNC" - both sites have plenty of links to take you down to whatever level of resolution you prefer (and your time and skillset allow).

    And on the subject at hand... unsurprising, awful, illegal, and all part of expected business as usual in Trumpland (all the way down to the backstabbing and completely lack of loyalty or even a united front).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    Flynn was already out of favor with Trump apparently. This may be teeing him up to being entirely pushed out.
    I haven't been paying that much attention to post-inauguration White House politics - who on earth gets to be National Security Adviser if Flynn goes? (Bannon? Shudder.)
    "In today’s America, conservatives who actually want to conserve are as rare as liberals who actually want to liberate. The once-significant language of an earlier era has had the meaning sucked right out of it, the better to serve as camouflage for a kleptocratic feeding frenzy in which both establishment parties participate with equal abandon" (Taking a break from the criminal, incompetent liars at the NSA, to bring you the above political observation, from The Archdruid Report.)

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post

    I haven't been paying that much attention to post-inauguration White House politics - who on earth gets to be National Security Adviser if Flynn goes? (Bannon? Shudder.)
    The Trump Administration's problem is that the wall of "no" constructed by the Republication National Security establishment is holding, and conversely, some figures in the Administration (typically the alt-right side) are still vengeful towards the few that would work. Those two letters written during the campaign declaring Trump a national security were a huge deal to them.

    So Trump's problem is that there are (1) very few people willing to work for him and (2) very few people who are acceptable to his factions. The fact that Arch-Neocon and Iraq War Mastermind Elliot Abrams is likely to be tipped as the Deputy Secretary of State (for those reading who don't know, the Deputies run Department's day to day affairs) just illustrates how dry the well is. He was and remains, a persona non-grata among the Foreign Policy Establishment... except his hyperactive interventionism is literally everything that Donald Trump has spent a year denouncing.

    Without Flynn in that post, it's a big question mark. Probably another General. Maybe a friend of Mattis. Flynn was nominally part of Bannon's faction, but evidently is independent and lost power and influence to Bannon.

    All of this goes back to the best idea National Security from the last Congress that never made it to into law: the "No More Susan Rices Law", which would have required the National Security Adviser to be confirmed by the Senate. It's ridiculous that is not the case, given the proclivity of some of the last few to run it as a parallel Pentagon+Foggy Bottom.

    The good news is that this kind of deep State intrigue will eat Trump alive, every bit that it frustrated Obama.

  7. #7
    Over 9000! Milchshake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    Flynn was already out of favor with Trump apparently. This may be teeing him up to being entirely pushed out.
    I covered some of this in my leak thread. Trump hates Flynn for being too much like Trump. So now we know that Trump hates; reading, walking up stairs, Spicer's suits, and Flynn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker76 View Post
    Here's a juicy leak

    Mike Flynn Is Annoying Trump Because He Acts Just Like Trump

    In a lot of ways, Donald Trump’s national security adviser, Mike Flynn, seems more like the president than most of his appointees. But the qualities that Flynn shares with Trump — a flair for provocation, an inability to shut up, a weird kid who shares his name — are reportedly causing a rift in their relationship.

    Less than two weeks into the Trump presidency, Flynn has “gotten on the nerves” of the president and others in his administration, according to the New York Times. Why? Flynn’s “overbearing,” he talks “too much,” and he presided “over a chaotic and opaque N.S.C. transition process,” the Times says. Flynn also likes to push the boundaries of what’s typically thought acceptable in D.C. Trump liked that when Flynn was chanting “lock her up” and calling Islam a “cancer,” but those antics have apparently become less amusing over time. Recently, for example, Flynn had to be talked out of going to DeploraBall, a Trump inauguration event where the “Sieg heil!” had to be explicitly banned, because at those kind of things you never know.

  8. #8
    The Lightbringer Caolela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    Russia hacking the election directly, as in accessing voting machines, tabulating machines, etc and then altering the results? I don't think there's any evidence for that at all I don't think any such thing happened (it's basically flat-earth, or fake moon-landing level nuttiness afaik) - and while there's certainly spin in that direction, I don't think the US government or Democratic party ever claimed it either.

    Russia hacking the election, via directly breaking into DNC servers, and then that material showing up at disadvantageous times for the Clinton campaign? The evidence of that was both public and pretty definitive back last summer; here's Cloudstrike's bit on it:"Bears in the Midst: Intrusion into the Democratic National Committee", and here's Bruce Schneier's post on the subject: "Russian Hack of the DNC" - both sites have plenty of links to take you down to whatever level of resolution you prefer (and your time and skillset allow).

    And on the subject at hand... unsurprising, awful, illegal, and all part of expected business as usual in Trumpland (all the way down to the backstabbing and completely lack of loyalty or even a united front).
    I have no sympathy for any individual or group that pulls the kind of skullduggery alleged here about the Trump campaign. Anyone involved should be hung out to dry if complicit, and Orange Megalomaniac should be investigated as well. If he knew or condoned it, then his head should roll too. I would say the same regardless of party or politician.

    IF Russia got into DNC servers (highly doubtful), it does not default equal a "hack" of the election. You are being spin-meistered and psyoped.

    There is something called the National Security Agency in this country. It monitors and stores everything that goes in or out, including all e-mail, web traffic, phone traffic, foreign AND domestic. EVERYTHING, even encrypted, 24/7, from everyone and everywhere. Most of the data monitoring and collection it does on U.S. citizens in the U.S. is unconstitutional and thus - illegal - but they've been doing it carte blanche for years. They are assisted by many of the corporations in IT...Microsoft, Apple, AOL, Yahoo, Google, the telecoms, you name it, because corporations have been given retroactive immunity against potential lawsuits. NSA has capabilities that even Orwell would not believe.

    Anyone who doubts it can easily find William Binney on YouTube or the web, as well as some of his colleagues like J. Kirk Wiebe and Tom Drake. All are former high-level NSA officials; Binney was the #3 man there (was head of the technical division) and helped invent and produce the programs that are being illegally used to spy on Americans as we speak, like the formerly named 'Thinthread' before it was taken over by the Bush/Cheney admin. and turned against citizens.

    Listen to what they have to say because they are the real deal. All of them will tell you that if there was actual Russian hacking or an attempt to break into a major political party's servers, NSA would have known of it right off and could easily have countered it.

    This was a scheme to give the Obama admin. cover to hit Russia with sanctions. It's that disgusting, and just that simple.
    Last edited by Caolela; 2017-02-12 at 05:24 AM.

  9. #9
    Nixon didn't commit a crime other than covering up a crime that a subordinate committed.

    Nixon used to like to drink in the evenings and after a tumbler or two of bourbon he'd start rambling. Upon hearing the president's drunken ramblings one of his subordinates decided Nixon was serious. A couple of months later some men were caught trying to plant a listening device in Democrat headquarters, Nixon being a Republican.

    There was an investigation. Nixon did everything he could to stop the investigation and in attempting to stop the investigation committed crimes himself.

    Lesson is if someone commits a crime on your watch don't try to hide it.

    What's Nixon got to do with Trump, both are human, male and Republicans but that's about it.
    Last edited by Independent voter; 2017-02-10 at 07:54 AM.
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  10. #10
    The Lightbringer fengosa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caolela View Post
    But this bullshit about Russia hacking the election is raw agitprop. That I'm aware of there has never been any actual evidence put forth that any hacking took place.

    Obama and the Dems are once again talking right through their asses for obvious ulterior motives.
    I don't think Obama has ever claimed that the election results were directly affected. One company did mention they thought they say some discrepancy between electronic and hand cast ballot but nothing ever came to that.

    Ringpriests post explains it best. Russia did target the DNC and leaked that info to change public opinion but that is still very shady and sanction worthy behaviour.

  11. #11
    The Lightbringer Caolela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fengosa View Post
    I don't think Obama has ever claimed that the election results were directly affected. One company did mention they thought they say some discrepancy between electronic and hand cast ballot but nothing ever came to that.

    Ringpriests post explains it best. Russia did target the DNC and leaked that info to change public opinion but that is still very shady and sanction worthy behaviour.
    If you believe that after what I just told you, then I can't help you. Obviously you haven't checked the sources I gave, and you know nothing of how this kind of thing actually works.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Hubcap View Post
    Nixon didn't commit a crime other than covering up a crime that a subordinate committed.

    Nixon used to like to drink in the evenings and after a tumbler or two of bourbon he'd start rambling. Upon hearing the president's drunken ramblings one of his subordinates decided Nixon was serious. A couple of months later some men were caught trying to plant a listening device in Democrat headquarters, Nixon being a Republican.

    There was an investigation. Nixon did everything he could to stop the investigation and in attempting to stop the investigation committed crimes himself.

    Lesson is if someone commits a crime on your watch don't try to hide it.

    What's Nixon got to do with Trump, both are human, male and Republicans but that's about it.
    Nixon destroyed potential evidence and covering up crimes is also illegal.....

    Yes he didn't break into the watergate hotel himself but that's not really a thing to be proud of.

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