Brewmaster Nighthold Mitigation

[Tuskchi]

My main became my alt, but even now, I enjoy Brewmasters especially after the buffs. I don't know what's the exact reason, but when I log with my Monk, the last thing I wanna do is DPS - which was my main reason of maining a Monk in legion.


With my gear ~ 865+ ( got rly sucky 840 tank trinkets ) I'm fully capable of tanking most bosses on Normal in Nighthold, with a bit better geared healers backing me up. The question is that I've noticed a large portion of purifying has been dropped down.

Previously, I was tracking something like 40-50% of damage staggered with 30-35% purifying. Now, depending on talent choices, I get about 60-80%+ of damage as stagger with only 20-25% purified. One would think that with increased stagger, you should have more/stronger purifies.


Also I read in some other topic that in Raid brewmasters purify only if above 100% stagger ...

I'm using a Stagger module for Skada to track amount of purifying. I should get one about dodge as well, because I must be dodging like hell to stay alive :?

[Gorsameth]

My main became my alt, but even now, I enjoy Brewmasters especially after the buffs. I don't know what's the exact reason, but when I log with my Monk, the last thing I wanna do is DPS - which was my main reason of maining a Monk in legion.


With my gear ~ 865+ ( got rly sucky 840 tank trinkets ) I'm fully capable of tanking most bosses on Normal in Nighthold, with a bit better geared healers backing me up. The question is that I've noticed a large portion of purifying has been dropped down.

Previously, I was tracking something like 40-50% of damage staggered with 30-35% purifying. Now, depending on talent choices, I get about 60-80%+ of damage as stagger with only 20-25% purified. One would think that with increased stagger, you should have more/stronger purifies.


Also I read in some other topic that in Raid brewmasters purify only if above 100% stagger ...

I'm using a Stagger module for Skada to track amount of purifying. I should get one about dodge as well, because I must be dodging like hell to stay alive :?

Why would you want to track dodges? Unlike purifying its not something you have control over and the only boss on which dodge-able attacks are remotely interesting is Gul'dan. Every other boss either does pitiful melee damage (most of them) or cannot be dodged (Spellblade).

[Tuskchi]

I wanted to track them because our pure mitigation is dodge and purify. Didn't know Spellblade can't be dodged .... doesn't that mean that your Elusive Brawer stacks should go bonkers?

[Gorsameth]

I wanted to track them because our pure mitigation is dodge and purify. Didn't know Spellblade can't be dodged .... doesn't that mean that your Elusive Brawer stacks should go bonkers?

Her normal melee attacks can be dodged but the important one, annihilate can't be.

And I don't see much use in tracking something you cant influence. Logs will show how much you dodged but that's after the fight.

[AleDangerous]

I love playing tanks, and at the moment I have 3 tanks, A warrior 881, A Monk 874 and a DH 874, and I can assure that Monks are very good in NH, they migate so much dmg and the playstyle is so nice. On my warrior I take insane dmg cause they don't really have any magic mitigation, and in monks the magic mitigatin is passive on stagger and it can be doubled. Monks are the hardest tank to tank with, but when you get used it is so fun and safe.

[clutchh]

As a healer, we run with DH/Paladin tanks, wish we had a Brew. Stagger is legit.

[Will]

Honestly if anyone says 'here is a rule, you purify when at X % stagger, blah blah" disregard it immediately.

Your job as a tank is to evaluate when to stagger. You do this by looking at A) how much health you have, B) how much health other party members have, and C) the fight mechanics and the damage you're taking or expect to take shortly. You'll also look at D) your brew charges remaining, including how long until BoxB is back up.

Examples:

1) The raid is well topped-off, you're well topped off. You have a lot of stagger, but there's no point in purifying if your healers are having absolutely no problem keeping you alive. You can get away with building up quite a lot of stagger and sitting on it.

2) The raid is well topped off, and your health is really teetering on the brink of death. You have a few brew charges left. In this case don't 'wait till 100% stagger'. Purify sooner. Give your healers some breathing room. If you have only 1 brew left and BoxB is far from being ready, you need to think more carefully before using it. Are there any big hit mechanics coming in soon?

3) Your health is well topped off but the rest of the raid are pretty beat up from a big AoE. You have plenty of brew charges. In this case since your healers are gonna have their work cut out topping the raid up, feel free to purify sooner.

4) You need to burn some brews because you have plenty of remaining duration on ISB and you're either I) at max brew charges or II) BoxB just came off CD or will shortly come off CD. In this case feel free to purify a smaller amount of stagger than you normally would. Normally to burn an excess brew, or to clear them in advance of BoxB coming off CD, I do ISB, but it's acceptable to purify moderate stagger in this situation, provided the healer has their work cut out for them -- otherwise what's the point?

5) You have 2+ brews and know a huge tank shot mechanic is about to come in and you're already hurt and have lots of stagger built up. You may wish to purify your exiting stagger before the big hit comes in, to give healers a chance to bring your health back up again. Particularly important if the non-staggered portion of the soon-to-land-big-hit is enough to potentially or nearly 1-shot you unless you get topped up first. Just make sure you have enough brews to purify AGAIN immediately after the big hit comes in.

(Another option, however, in this scenario is to use the BoC ---> ISB stagger pause but ALWAYS be careful doing this -- make sure you have more than 1 brew as you're gonna need to purify that big-ass stagger pool soon as it starts ticking.)

Ultimately there is no 'this is the optimal time to stagger'. These are just examples from my own experience; it's up to you to constantly evaluate the situation and decide when to purify. Always be thinking 'what will help the healers the most. What will help keep me alive the most'. It's why I love BrM; it's a level of thought that's way beyond what the other tanks offer.

[Xiaojin]

Her normal melee attacks can be dodged but the important one, annihilate can't be.

And I don't see much use in tracking something you cant influence. Logs will show how much you dodged but that's after the fight.

I think the "tank killer" abilities can rarely be dodged. That's what active mitigation and cooldowns are for. E.g. you don't need 100% Ironskin Brew uptime, but you definitely need it up when she casts Annihilate. Looking at my guild's last Heroic kill (in which I played BrM because your regular DH tank couldn't play due to being ill) I dodged almost 50% of all the melee attacks on that encounter it still was the largest source of damage taken (ignoring non-purified stagger of course) for me. Dodge rarely, if ever, helps you to survive tank killer abilities but it's not supposed to anyway. It's supposed to make it easier for the healers to keep you alive during "normal" tanking.

How useful that is to you highly depends on how good your healers are and what your ratio of healers to DPS/tanks is. Maybe it's useless, maybe it allows your healers to conserve just that little bit of extra mana they need to power through a high damage phase. Maybe it allows you to drop a healer in favor of having one more DPS to shorten the encounter and thus make it easier.

Of course one can argue that stats other then Mastery might overall be more useful, but that's a different discussion.

TL;DR: Dodge isn't supposed to let you survive tank killer abilities. Don't judge it based on that.

[Gorsameth]

I think the "tank killer" abilities can rarely be dodged. That's what active mitigation and cooldowns are for. E.g. you don't need 100% Ironskin Brew uptime, but you definitely need it up when she casts Annihilate. Looking at my guild's last Heroic kill (in which I played BrM because your regular DH tank couldn't play due to being ill) I dodged almost 50% of all the melee attacks on that encounter it still was the largest source of damage taken (ignoring non-purified stagger of course) for me. Dodge rarely, if ever, helps you to survive tank killer abilities but it's not supposed to anyway. It's supposed to make it easier for the healers to keep you alive during "normal" tanking.

How useful that is to you highly depends on how good your healers are and what your ratio of healers to DPS/tanks is. Maybe it's useless, maybe it allows your healers to conserve just that little bit of extra mana they need to power through a high damage phase. Maybe it allows you to drop a healer in favor of having one more DPS to shorten the encounter and thus make it easier.

Of course one can argue that stats other then Mastery might overall be more useful, but that's a different discussion.

TL;DR: Dodge isn't supposed to let you survive tank killer abilities. Don't judge it based on that.

My point is that dodge has more value on bosses that melee hard, Gul'dan for example hits like a truck. And it loses value on bosses where their attacks are not threatening (Krosus for example). Spellblade is on the higher side of melee damage but still no where near the level Gul'dan imo.

Nighthold has comparability more fights where melee hits on the tank are no problem, and some where mastery does nothing (Star Augur).
Therefor mastery loses some relative value for NH (in general)

Its still a fine stat but for NH I value vers and crit more.

[Kattsumoto]

Personally I try to generally run with as much vers as I can because there is so much magic damage in NH. With that said I have a few builds to choose from that I have built but usually I run about 13% haste, 32 crit, 20 mastery and 10 vers. On heroic I have yet to find a boss that hits to hard, it is more likely that my co-tank (pally) will die well before I ever do unless something got real messed up, i.e. too many stacks on chonomatic.

[keqe]

Nighthold has comparability more fights where melee hits on the tank are no problem, and some where mastery does nothing (Star Augur).
Therefor mastery loses some relative value for NH (in general)

Well to be fair the best gearing option for M augur as brewmaster is to switch to paladin. Spellwarding is more useful than your whole presence in that fight. (Not to mention you have potential to be an extra healer).

It's one fight I felt completely useless as brewmaster. Taking a shit geared paladin to heal/spellward/do mechanics/off tank was much more useful in the fight.

Botanist, Elisande and guldan and especially tichondrius do plenty of AA damage which mastery helps against. It won't help against tank killing mechanics but neither will other stats. All of them are buffer against overall damage in one way or another.

Outside of Augur brewmaster is great in NH.

[ribthanwa]

Well to be fair the best gearing option for M augur as brewmaster is to switch to paladin. Spellwarding is more useful than your whole presence in that fight. (Not to mention you have potential to be an extra healer).

It's one fight I felt completely useless as brewmaster. Taking a shit geared paladin to heal/spellward/do mechanics/off tank was much more useful in the fight.

Botanist, Elisande and guldan and especially tichondrius do plenty of AA damage which mastery helps against. It won't help against tank killing mechanics but neither will other stats. All of them are buffer against overall damage in one way or another.

Outside of Augur brewmaster is great in NH.

Versatility, crit, and haste all help against tank killing mechanics.

Versatility -> less damage taken

Crit -> More healing taken to recover from a tank killer

Haste -> More purifyability, allowing you to be at a lower stagger going into a tank killer, and easier to immediate respond to it going off

[keqe]

And mastery makes it more likely you have more health before big hit and/or you keep your health better after it because of more avoidance.

All of them do the same in minor way. Overall the stats have very little effect on big tank abilities.

[Saverem]

My main became my alt, but even now, I enjoy Brewmasters especially after the buffs. I don't know what's the exact reason, but when I log with my Monk, the last thing I wanna do is DPS - which was my main reason of maining a Monk in legion.

Also true for me. The WW rotation is very stressful compared to the other classes and very unforgiving. Messing up could fuck you up pretty hard. Can't count how many times I TP'd or ToK'd twice because of lag and caused my Hit Combo to fall off. Or not having the chi/energy to use FoF which fucks up the whole WDP rotation if RSK comes back off the CD (which is a lot more likely with the 2 pc bonus).