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  1. #101
    The better trained and educated citizens are the better off everyone is. Education and training shouldn't cost a single penny to the student. With sensible restrictions like excluding junk degrees/jobs and "repeat learners".

  2. #102
    Herald of the Titans Serpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blur4stuff View Post
    The better trained and educated citizens are the better off everyone is. Education and training shouldn't cost a single penny to the student. With sensible restrictions like excluding junk degrees/jobs and "repeat learners".
    I agree, as long as it's not some bullshit like: gender study etc...Doctors, physicists, engineers yes...for citizens of course.

  3. #103
    Taxing high-priced real estate is fine, but then using the proceeds to subsidize tuition, bringing in more people to the city, driving up prices even further? Seems like a net neutral, to me.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker76 View Post
    Old-timers remember when California was the center of a national battle over the idea — championed by Governor Ronald Reagan — ending fulling subsidized tuition at state schools. Reagan, who was not at all reluctant to accompany his arguments for tuition with robust hippie-bashing, never succeeded in charging tuition at the state’s higher-ed facilities. By the time a new batch of conservative politicians and fiscal hard times arrived in the early 1980s, so too did free college tuition in California, until today.

    City College of San Francisco will be free of charge to all city residents under a deal announced Monday by Mayor Ed Lee and Supervisor Jane Kim that college trustees hope will lead to an enrollment jolt and more state funding for the school. Under the agreement, which is expected to take effect in the fall, the city will pay $5.4 million a year to buy out the $46-a-credit fee usually paid by students.

    The funding source for the San Francisco free community college is perhaps its most interesting feature: last November’s successful Proposition W ballot initiative, which imposed a new tax on the sale of properties costing more than $5 million. In a city with insane top-end real-estate prices and some of the worst inequality in the country, there’s a lot of justice in this particular form of wealth redistribution.
    Charging others is not the definition of free, but at the same time I am fine with taxing the shit out of Hollywood.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    Charging others is not the definition of free, but at the same time I am fine with taxing the shit out of Hollywood.
    That's a matter of perspective. If 100 people all chip in a single penny to buy me a coke... I just got a free Coke.

    Might want to check a map though...Hollywood is not in San Francisco.
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  6. #106
    There's no denying that college for everyone would be great. However, the issue is the cost on government and the amount of government funding that could potentially be wasted.

    Are we going to fund people's education on areas of study which have very little chance to benefit society? Art degrees, let's face it, would be a huge waste of government funding 95% of the time.

    Are we going to fund people who have no other motivation other than "Well it's free so I might as well give it a shot."? What happens if they fail and end up wasting everyone's time? I feel like this is much more likely to happen if you can just go there with absolutely no risk other than time wasted if you fail.

    I think the biggest advantage to the current system of having people pay for their education is that they're motivated to do well because they don't want to waste a bunch of their own money. If we could find a way to implement a system where it's free but only for certain degrees (those most valuable to society), and where you have to pay back the government if you fail to finish your degree, then I might be able to get on board. Otherwise I feel like the cost on society is too great to justify the benefit to society.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Docturphil View Post
    There's no denying that college for everyone would be great. However, the issue is the cost on government and the amount of government funding that could potentially be wasted.

    Are we going to fund people's education on areas of study which have very little chance to benefit society? Art degrees, let's face it, would be a huge waste of government funding 95% of the time.

    Are we going to fund people who have no other motivation other than "Well it's free so I might as well give it a shot."? What happens if they fail and end up wasting everyone's time? I feel like this is much more likely to happen if you can just go there with absolutely no risk other than time wasted if you fail.

    I think the biggest advantage to the current system of having people pay for their education is that they're motivated to do well because they don't want to waste a bunch of their own money. If we could find a way to implement a system where it's free but only for certain degrees (those most valuable to society), and where you have to pay back the government if you fail to finish your degree, then I might be able to get on board. Otherwise I feel like the cost on society is too great to justify the benefit to society.
    I can only comment on grants here in Georgia. You lose you financial aide status if you don't maintain a GPA of at least 2.0 or if you withdraw from to many classes.

    2.0 is laughable low though, I'd like to see it raised to 3.0

    You ask some people on here and they would swear I am a total moron and granted I'm not taking something like nuclear physics, but my GPA is 3.9 - I'm trying this semester to reach that 4.0 as a matter of principal lol

    So far I've got a perfect 100 in my Constitutional Law class this semester. Woot
    Last edited by TITAN308; 2017-02-10 at 06:05 PM.

  8. #108
    $46 per credit hour?

    That's ALL IT COST? Holy crap, most students would gladly pay that compared to most prices. O_O

    $1500 a year for a full load of 15 credit hours per semester!

    I imagine most people would gladly pay back a student loan if it was only $6,000 at the end of four years. That's less than a car for crying out loud.

  9. #109
    "BUT IT'S NOT FREE!!!1111"

    Can people stop saying this like it's an argument? Everybody know it's not "free".

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by infinitemeridian View Post
    "BUT IT'S NOT FREE!!!1111"

    Can people stop saying this like it's an argument? Everybody know it's not "free".
    Who pays for it is a valid argument.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    Who pays for it is a valid argument.
    Reasonable people generally aren't the sort of demented troll that question the value of public utility, so...no.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Reasonable people generally aren't the sort of demented troll that question the value of public utility, so...no.
    Wrong, reasonable people making reasonable arguments.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    Wrong, reasonable people making reasonable arguments.
    Exactly. Which is why they don't argue that 'hurr taxes are theft' or 'hurr, tuition free education isn't -really- free'.

    Reasonable people are debating whether or not tertiary education requires either a nominal fee in the vein of HECS or should be tuition free outright, not whether or not it's okay to levy taxes for the public benefit.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Exactly. Which is why they don't argue that 'hurr taxes are theft' or 'hurr, tuition free education isn't -really- free'.

    Reasonable people are debating whether or not tertiary education requires either a nominal fee in the vein of HECS or should be tuition free outright, not whether or not it's okay to levy taxes for the public benefit.
    First you call people you disagree with demented trolls then you mock them with "hurr". That's a bit childish don't you think?

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Reasonable people generally aren't the sort of demented troll that question the value of public utility, so...no.
    People absolutely should question the value of a public utility. It would be silly not to. That's the whole fucking point of the entire debate.

    Should the government fund the creation and maintenance of public highways?

    Most would say yes. That is a very valuable public utility.

    Should the government provide a "stripper fund" with which government officials can go out on the weekends and pay for as many lap dances as they want at their local strip club?

    Fuck no. That can come out of their own pockets. No one would ever approve of this because it's not a valuable public utility.

    Should the government pay for everyone's college?

    Maybe, maybe not. Depends on how they go about it. Some would agree, some would disagree. It's pretty split and for good reason.

  16. #116
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    First you call people you disagree with demented trolls then you mock them with "hurr". That's a bit childish don't you think?
    I'm just telling it like it is. You shouldn't be so PC.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    I'm just telling it like it is. You shouldn't be so PC.
    I don't think you understand the difference between name calling and being PC, so I would advise not using it in a sentence until you do.

  18. #118
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    I can see SO MANY gender studies degrees in the coming years.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    I don't think you understand the difference between name calling and being PC, so I would advise not using it in a sentence until you do.
    Let me tell you about being PC. Nobody understands being PC better than me; you're gonna see me explain PC so well you'll get tired of how good it gets explained.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by HBpapa View Post
    I can see SO MANY gender studies degrees in the coming years.
    You don't seem to be aware that these sorts of degrees are decreasing as a percentage of total graduate degrees.

    Then again, I doubt you're familiar with what gender studies actually encompasses.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    It's a small start, but it's good.



    OMG using tax money to benefit society! The horror!
    Tax money exclusively taken from the sale of expensive homes. Jelly people hating the rich.

    On topic, yeah let's see all the state schools go free and cripple the economy for years and degrade the value of the educations given when something like no child left behind comes up. A city school doing this is /yawn

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Let me tell you about being PC. Nobody understands being PC better than me; you're gonna see me explain PC so well you'll get tired of how good it gets explained.

    - - - Updated - - -



    You don't seem to be aware that these sorts of degrees are decreasing as a percentage of total graduate degrees.

    Then again, I doubt you're familiar with what gender studies actually encompasses.
    Well yeah since half of them found out they were pretty worthless. Then again the more colleges become free, the more you're going to need graduate degrees for shitty jobs, but people don't think about that. I mean you could be a manager 15 years ago with a high school diploma and now they're not really even hiring without graduate level degrees at some places.

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