Nighthold Trinkets

[Deleted]

Hey, since you guys are discussing trinkets i thought i could ask u directly which 2 trinkets i should use on myself , because i recently got 4 decent ones. I have Waist legendary and legendary ring with haste proc if that makes a difference .So here`s the list:
890 Elemental Foci
885 Arcanogolem Digit
885 Memento of Angerboda with 500 Leech
and 885 Nightblooming Frond
Im so confused , any help appreciated !

[Strah]

Hey, since you guys are discussing trinkets i thought i could ask u directly which 2 trinkets i should use on myself , because i recently got 4 decent ones. I have Waist legendary and legendary ring with haste proc if that makes a difference .So here`s the list:
890 Elemental Foci
885 Arcanogolem Digit
885 Memento of Angerboda with 500 Leech
and 885 Nightblooming Frond
Im so confused , any help appreciated !

Memento+digit, no contest.

[Fiftyonred]

Hey Wunju, I pinged you in the rogue discord, and on the forums a couple times. If you have questions, happy to walk through them with you I haven't seen a response yet, and I know we are all busy these days. But hit me up so I can fill you in

Not tying to single anyone out here, but it's rather telling that people normally just bash AMR here, right until Zooper steps in, and then the tone changes. Having AMR represented here is awesome, and the fact that he has answered pretty much every single post about AMR is a great service.

Long story short. Consider not hating on AMR, and instead understNd it's strengths. For trinkets there really is no comparison to SimC, so my general suggestion is to chill with the SimC love, and cut AMR some slack. Personally I use nothing but AMR now.

I tagged you, as I as mentioned didn't want to single anyone out.

[TwentyTwelve]

Tbh i've been doing a lot of thought with the new trinkets, I've been lucky and got my hands on quite a few of them...
- CoF 890
- DoS 895
- NBF 895
- Foci 875

Now people would clearly say CoF+DoS or CoF+NBF.

I'm running with CoF + X right now, i've been testing all the different trinkets and its just so frustrating how RNG they all are.

I feel SimC dosen't sim most of them correct by far - DoS is simming a little lower than should i.m.o (based on the %dmg is shows doing) - and NBF is WAY over valued.
Foci is a little hard to sim, it sims it assuming you get 1 of each but just getting 2 haste and 1 mastery or 2 crit and 1 mastery could completely change things and also, you can get no procs, or 7 procs...

I think the main thing to think about is there is really no ST fights in NH and because of this i feel DoS/NBF lose value -

Perfect scenario for these trinkets would be Skorpyron extra damage phase, you can control what you hit with NBF of course but you can't with DoS and most of the time my guild have scorpions up so DoS could prio them.

Krosus is another example, DoS you could get away with using and most likely is the best thing to do - you shouldn't have to delay it much at all to avoid bridge smash / Adds, so DoS will hit boss but NBF, could be very bad on this fight if it procs during soaking/bridge smash.

Doing a few damage tests on dummy, nothing long or anything but it seemed my average damage from NBF was 3-4% of my damage, that dosen't seem bad but not great either and on anything with 2 targets or more, other trinkets shine.

I feel NBF needs a buff - DoS is fine the way it is, you can't buff this as it would benefit other classes (warriors) far too much, not every trinket should be great for us, DoS is still a good trinket... But NBF SHOULD be better - it just isn't right now unless you get crazy RNG procs, but with that logic any trinket is good.

I used NBF on most fights last night after coining it to test it and it seemed like it only really shined on one fight, funny enough krosus, it did 6.8% of my damage, the rest were all around 3% and i feel 3% damage done does not compete with Foci proc / Stat stick, especially if there is just one extra add.

[Deleted]

Tbh i've been doing a lot of thought with the new trinkets, I've been lucky and got my hands on quite a few of them...
- CoF 890
- DoS 895
- NBF 895
- Foci 875

Now people would clearly say CoF+DoS or CoF+NBF.

I'm running with CoF + X right now, i've been testing all the different trinkets and its just so frustrating how RNG they all are.

I feel SimC dosen't sim most of them correct by far - DoS is simming a little lower than should i.m.o (based on the %dmg is shows doing) - and NBF is WAY over valued.
Foci is a little hard to sim, it sims it assuming you get 1 of each but just getting 2 haste and 1 mastery or 2 crit and 1 mastery could completely change things and also, you can get no procs, or 7 procs...

I think the main thing to think about is there is really no ST fights in NH and because of this i feel DoS/NBF lose value -

Perfect scenario for these trinkets would be Skorpyron extra damage phase, you can control what you hit with NBF of course but you can't with DoS and most of the time my guild have scorpions up so DoS could prio them.

Krosus is another example, DoS you could get away with using and most likely is the best thing to do - you shouldn't have to delay it much at all to avoid bridge smash / Adds, so DoS will hit boss but NBF, could be very bad on this fight if it procs during soaking/bridge smash.

Doing a few damage tests on dummy, nothing long or anything but it seemed my average damage from NBF was 3-4% of my damage, that dosen't seem bad but not great either and on anything with 2 targets or more, other trinkets shine.

I feel NBF needs a buff - DoS is fine the way it is, you can't buff this as it would benefit other classes (warriors) far too much, not every trinket should be great for us, DoS is still a good trinket... But NBF SHOULD be better - it just isn't right now unless you get crazy RNG procs, but with that logic any trinket is good.

I used NBF on most fights last night after coining it to test it and it seemed like it only really shined on one fight, funny enough krosus, it did 6.8% of my damage, the rest were all around 3% and i feel 3% damage done does not compete with Foci proc / Stat stick, especially if there is just one extra add.

all you guys are talking about "it is doing 3% of my damage". What is 3% of your damage. If you do 800k on krosus and this trinket procs for 3% of your damage its like 24k dps, combined with the agility its just extreme powerful. Even just 15k dps (3% of 500k dps) is on par with the mastery from a 900 ilvl stat stick (1180 mastery = ~15k dps).

[Won7on]

Got a 885 Digit today. Seems to be shit. Did less damage on botanist than NBF usually does. I don't believe for a second it could be the top ST trinket in any situation.

Seems like a trinket that's only good for massive cleave/AoE, as you'd expect.

[elfporn]

Got a 885 Digit today. Seems to be shit. Did less damage on botanist than NBF usually does. I don't believe for a second it could be the top ST trinket in any situation.

Seems like a trinket that's only good for massive cleave/AoE, as you'd expect.

my 900 one does about the same as my nbf on ST

[Deleted]

my 900 one does about the same as my nbf on ST

860 raid finder nbf?

- - - Updated - - -

Got a 885 Digit today. Seems to be shit. Did less damage on botanist than NBF usually does. I don't believe for a second it could be the top ST trinket in any situation.

Seems like a trinket that's only good for massive cleave/AoE, as you'd expect.

If you do 600 to 750k dps and the trinket is doing around 2 to 2.5 % of your damage its again on par with an 900 eye of guarm mastery and working absoluteley correctly. As I figured out some pages ago.

Your expectations about procs are a little bit crazy. All trinkets with agility on it will never do an high amount of damage like DoS if the proc occurs like its usual avg rppm rate. The agility on it is responsible for the major part of its dps. This topic is drifting slowly post-factual.

[Deleted]

Thank you. I dont get the Point, people want million procs per minute on agi trinkets. Noone ever puts the flat agi into consideration since we already benefit from it massively and NBF gives us pretty nice extra dmg depending on its ppm and also depending on the situation when it procs. I am satisfied with NBF and my first testings were quite good.

[Deleted]

If you do 600 to 750k dps and the trinket is doing around 2 to 2.5 % of your damage its again on par with an 900 eye of guarm mastery and working absoluteley correctly. As I figured out some pages ago.

My 900 Tirathon's Betrayal does around 4-6% on average and is usually regarded as the worst possible trinket.
Tested Foci for couple of evenings — it seem to have crazy uptime for me, the haste buff is the only thing that's dodgy about it.

[ymirsson]

My 900 Tirathon's Betrayal does around 4-6% on average and is usually regarded as the worst possible trinket.
Tested Foci for couple of evenings — it seem to have crazy uptime for me, the haste buff is the only thing that's dodgy about it.

As he said before, 4-6% of what?

[Strah]

Is draught of souls affected by agonizing poison and vendetta?

[ymirsson]

Vendetta and AP increase your ability damage. DoS is not one of your abilities.

[Deleted]

Tyrathon's betrayal il805
Use: Empower yourself with dark energy, causing your attacks to have a chance to inflict 26442 additional Shadow damage and grant you a shield for 29380.

4-6% of your total damage comes from that ^

[ymirsson]

4-6% of your total damage comes from that ^

That's like, not even half of the required answer. But thanks for trying.

[Deleted]

1i3t0 — Grunt
^ That is why. I will be happy to provide the other half if you tell me what it is

[TwentyTwelve]

Taken from my logs the other night

NBF results:

Skorp Mythic Kill - 275m damage total NBF 1.94% (5.3m), 4 procs 6:30 kill time
Anomoly Mythic kill - 254m damage total NBF 3.28% (8.3m), proc'd 4 times, literally all within first half of fight, then refused to proc after 2:30 lul 5:14 kill time
Trillax mythic kill - 209m dmg total NBF 4.83% (10.14m), proc'd 6 times, literally how this trinket should be i.m.o for a 895 trinket. 5:12 kill time
Star Auger HC - 242m total NBF 2.7% (6.6m) - proc'd 3 times, 6:25 kill time ???

Proc rate is extremely RNG and most often it does not do enough damage to warrant taking it over a stat stick - which wll do similar or more damage than the NBF on single target alone - not to mention the benefit gained from cleave / any aoe. + the chance of NBF proccing whilst your unable to attack.
Seriously it reminds me of my tirathons betrayal - that thing always did 2-3% of my damage, was using it just b4 NH release as it was 880 - on and SimC valued it highly surprise.

[Deleted]

Vendetta and AP increase your ability damage. DoS is not one of your abilities.

From testing with the few trinkets I have (KBW and Ravage Seed Pod), AP increses their damage and even stuff like the frag belt enchant.
Vendetta on the other hand does not increase the damage of said trinkets.

I tried some testing with Potion of the Old War and it seems to behave the same way (AP: dmg increase; Vendetta: no increase), but I ran out of pots and the damage generally kinda fluctuates, so I wouldn't bet my life on it.

In general it seems (and please correct me if I'm wrong, ideally with some proof) that Vendetta does not increase anything outside of our own class abilities, while AP is a flat out increase on everything we can throw at the mob.

This would mean, a NBF proc during Vendetta does not increase its damage, nor does it increase Old War.

Image of KBW damage with Vendetta and AP: i.imgur.com/WSDmbNw.jpg
(KBW base damage is 838,600 and it always crits)

[Deleted]

Taken from my logs the other night

NBF results:

Skorp Mythic Kill - 275m damage total NBF 1.94% (5.3m), 4 procs 6:30 kill time
Anomoly Mythic kill - 254m damage total NBF 3.28% (8.3m), proc'd 4 times, literally all within first half of fight, then refused to proc after 2:30 lul 5:14 kill time
Trillax mythic kill - 209m dmg total NBF 4.83% (10.14m), proc'd 6 times, literally how this trinket should be i.m.o for a 895 trinket. 5:12 kill time
Star Auger HC - 242m total NBF 2.7% (6.6m) - proc'd 3 times, 6:25 kill time ???

Proc rate is extremely RNG and most often it does not do enough damage to warrant taking it over a stat stick - which wll do similar or more damage than the NBF on single target alone - not to mention the benefit gained from cleave / any aoe. + the chance of NBF proccing whilst your unable to attack.
Seriously it reminds me of my tirathons betrayal - that thing always did 2-3% of my damage, was using it just b4 NH release as it was 880 - on and SimC valued it highly surprise.

Your NBF is 895. This means 1968 agility + proc.

The DPS values from the procs you've traded with us:

Skorpy: 5.3m / 390 = 13589 DPS
Anomaly: 8.3m / 314 = 26433 DPS
Trilliax: 10.14m / 312 = 32500 DPS
Star Augur: 6.6m / 385 = 17142 DPS

Agility is usualy around ~17.5 DPS per point, maybe more maybe less = 34440 DPS

At skorpy it is equal to the performance of an eye of guarm with ilvl 895
At anomaly it is equal to the performance of an eye of guarm with ilvl 925
At trilliax it is equal to the performance of an eye of guarm with ilvl 940
At Star Augur it is equal to the performance of an eye of guarm with ilvl 900

The avg performance of NBF 895 is equal to an eye of guarm 915.

[Xanatu]

Your NBF is 895. This means 1968 agility + proc.

The DPS values from the procs you've traded with us:

Skorpy: 5.3m / 390 = 13589 DPS
Anomaly: 8.3m / 314 = 26433 DPS
Trilliax: 10.14m / 312 = 32500 DPS
Star Augur: 6.6m / 385 = 17142 DPS

Agility is usualy around ~17.5 DPS per point, maybe more maybe less = 34440 DPS

At skorpy it is equal to the performance of an eye of guarm with ilvl 895
At anomaly it is equal to the performance of an eye of guarm with ilvl 925
At trilliax it is equal to the performance of an eye of guarm with ilvl 940
At Star Augur it is equal to the performance of an eye of guarm with ilvl 900

The avg performance of NBF 895 is equal to an eye of guarm 915.

I'm not following your equivalencies exactly but as long as it doesn't totally shaft you (my last M Krosus kill had a whopping 3 mil damage from Frond) it's still probably better. I have a crit + socket 890 eye. Same agi as frond so the different is like 1200 crit + 150 vers vs frond procs. Rough guess says 1200 points of crit and a bit of vers is worth about 5-5.5mil damage over a 6 minute fight. So as long as your frond beats that, you're good. Of course, sometimes it doesn't.