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  1. #21
    The Lightbringer Pannonian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
    There was clearly something huge happening before written records given the megaliths that scatter this world today, my honest guess is of a knowledge we simply cannot comprehend today. What else would possess so many cultures to erect such magnificent structures? There is also the how, maybe the knowledge of a creator came with advanced knowledge on how to harness energies on this earth?
    I'm not sure if you're trolling, but there is nothing magical about any megalith structure. We don't know exactly what purpose they served, but that doesn't give them any power. And... you know they earth was formed by laws of nature .... not some creepy creator...

  2. #22
    Herald of the Titans GodlyBob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
    There was clearly something huge happening before written records given the megaliths that scatter this world today, my honest guess is of a knowledge we simply cannot comprehend today. What else would possess so many cultures to erect such magnificent structures? There is also the how, maybe the knowledge of a creator came with advanced knowledge on how to harness energies on this earth?
    Or...it could be that humans tend to be remarkably similar throughout history as opposed to existing across hardliners and distinctive racial and cultural lines.
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    A few points;

    1> To nail this to the wall right at the outset, people have always been ingenious, and lower tech levels meant people got imaginative, and found ways to do things that we've forgotten, because we just have better ways to do it now. This goes for building pyramids, moving huge stones, all that stuff. All those structures are within our capabilities at the eras they were built, even if we're struggling to figure out exactly how. Also goes for things like the Antikythera Mechanism, which is an amazing piece of craftsmanship but totally achievable in the 2nd century BC.

    2> Human history covers a narrow slice of time. The modern human species has been around for about 200,000 years. Human recorded history covers about the last 5,000. The oldest structures we know off push that back just another couple thousand years. It's theoretically possible that an earlier group of people developed metallurgy and began building stone structures, especially if they were in an iron-rich area and skipped over copper/bronze metallurgy (iron would rust to nothing under most conditions, if they existed much further back in time than current historical record). The evidence of their society could have simply worn down to nothing. Particularly since there was another interglacial period about 120,000 years ago; not only would conditions have favored the emergence of greater civilization, but the glacial period that kicked back (the last "ice age", in popular parlance) could have literally scoured that evidence away, and destroyed any trace of domesticated plants and animals that didn't survive. This is particularly true when you account for land subsidence and such; the shorelines would have been pretty significantly different. However, the higher technology level that was achieved, the more likely traces would have survived, so it's unlikely that any prior civilizations ever achieved anything above iron-age level technology.
    You are missing the point of the thread imho. Its not about what WE view as technologically advanced, its about how advanced they were as a species. I think that is what most people lose when thinking about cultures back in the times of the pyramids or older. I believe they simply had advanced knowledge on things that mattered, possibly who our creator was. Its just small thinking about it in terms of metals etc.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    I'm not sure if you're trolling, but there is nothing magical about any megalith structure. We don't know exactly what purpose they served, but that doesn't give them any power. And... you know they earth was formed by laws of nature .... not some creepy creator...
    Absolutely not trolling, you are SMALL MINDED if you think you can easily explain away the great pyramid or any of the MAGNIFICENT structures built on earth in that time period. I dont think you understand how long ago this was, please step back for a second and try to understand what was accomplished and how truly baffling it is.

  4. #24
    Herald of the Titans GodlyBob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
    You are missing the point of the thread imho. Its not about what WE view as technologically advanced, its about how advanced they were as a species. I think that is what most people lose when thinking about cultures back in the times of the pyramids or older. I believe they simply had advanced knowledge on things that mattered, possibly who our creator was. Its just small thinking about it in terms of metals etc.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Absolutely not trolling, you are SMALL MINDED if you think you can explain away the great pyramid or any of the MAGNIFICENT structures built on earth in that time period. I dont think you understand how long ago this was, please step back for a second and try to understand what was accomplished and how truly baffling it is.
    You're making this about what YOU believe to be important as opposed to what THEY cared about. You're pretty much doing the same thing.

    You're devaluing humanity by saying that 20,000 farmers over the course of 20 years couldn't figure out how to stack large stones together. Humans are truly amazing and we tend to devalue our ancestors as primitive when in reality, we've been acting pretty much the same for 50,000 years.
    Last edited by GodlyBob; 2017-02-10 at 04:59 PM.
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  5. #25
    The Insane draynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    Is it possible there were civilizations far older than the ones we know of? Were they more advanced than we think?
    No, there weren't.

  6. #26
    The Lightbringer Pannonian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
    You are missing the point of the thread imho. Its not about what WE view as technologically advanced, its about how advanced they were as a species. I think that is what most people lose when thinking about cultures back in the times of the pyramids or older. I believe they simply had advanced knowledge on things that mattered, possibly who our creator was. Its just small thinking about it in terms of metals etc.

    - - - Updated - - -




    Absolutely not trolling, you are SMALL MINDED if you think you can explain away the great pyramid or any of the MAGNIFICENT structures built on earth in that time period. I dont think you understand how long ago this was, please step back for a second and try to understand what was accomplished and how truly baffling it is.
    As Endus told you ans has been proven by countless articles. Their work was magnificent for their time, but well within their capabilities. I don't see anything mysterious in the pyramids.

  7. #27
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
    There was clearly something huge happening before written records given the megaliths that scatter this world today, my honest guess is of a knowledge we simply cannot comprehend today. What else would possess so many cultures to erect such magnificent structures?
    Why do we still build huge structures today? Even pointless monuments?

    Because that's a very human thing to do. We like to put our mark on the world. It's really not that complicated. Most of those structures were power statements, either by a priesthood or a king, as a demonstration of worldly power and influence. Same reason modern churches have steeples, basically.

    There is also the how, maybe the knowledge of a creator came with advanced knowledge on how to harness energies on this earth?
    The "how" isn't hard to figure out. Take the Great Pyramids of Giza. The question isn't "how could they have built these" at this point, it's "which of these several totally achievable methods did they actually use". We know how they carved the blocks; we can see the tool marks in many cases, and we've found quarries with work left in various stages of completion. It doesn't take any "magic" beyond human ingenuity and bloody-mindedness.


  8. #28
    Of course Tolkien's universe was real until some cataclysmic event reset it with every trace of it, he didnt write the story himself actually, just translated the Red Book of Westmarch.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    I mean our perception

    Is it possible there were civilizations far older than the ones we know of? Were they more advanced than we think?

    DISCUSS!
    yes and DJT has arisen from the flames to lead us to final victory

  10. #30
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    Maybe the dark ages would actually be the rainbow ages. Instead of being pillaged by pirates the people actually were all very happy till one day someone started to write the odyssey and all went to hell.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Why do we still build huge structures today? Even pointless monuments?

    Because that's a very human thing to do. We like to put our mark on the world. It's really not that complicated. Most of those structures were power statements, either by a priesthood or a king, as a demonstration of worldly power and influence. Same reason modern churches have steeples, basically.



    The "how" isn't hard to figure out. Take the Great Pyramids of Giza. The question isn't "how could they have built these" at this point, it's "which of these several totally achievable methods did they actually use". We know how they carved the blocks; we can see the tool marks in many cases, and we've found quarries with work left in various stages of completion. It doesn't take any "magic" beyond human ingenuity and bloody-mindedness.
    Endus please, i dont think you fully understand how long ago these things were built. I also think you are discounting why, sure i can contemplate a species wanting to "leave their mark" but not thousands across the globe in a similar time period.

    If you seriously think the "how" is as easy as "its easily done, just look at the records" we have nothing to speak about more. Again, do you REALIZE how long ago this was, were talking FOUR THOUSAND+ years ago, and its STILL standing today. I would LOVE To have an in person convo with you to express my enthusiasm for this subject, because its impossible to do on a forum.

  12. #32
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
    You are missing the point of the thread imho. Its not about what WE view as technologically advanced, its about how advanced they were as a species. I think that is what most people lose when thinking about cultures back in the times of the pyramids or older. I believe they simply had advanced knowledge on things that mattered, possibly who our creator was. Its just small thinking about it in terms of metals etc.
    There's literally no evidence to support any of that. Particularly the nonsense about "our creator". People 20,000 years ago wouldn't have been significantly closer in time to any "creator" than modern people, since we're talking about a timeline of life on this planet that's measured in billions of years.

    Absolutely not trolling, you are SMALL MINDED if you think you can easily explain away the great pyramid or any of the MAGNIFICENT structures built on earth in that time period. I dont think you understand how long ago this was, please step back for a second and try to understand what was accomplished and how truly baffling it is.
    What you should know is that I have a personal library of alt-history texts, like almost every book by Graham Hancock. It's a hobby of mine. I'm well familiar with a lot of this stuff.

    There's nothing "small-minded" about having a full and complete understanding of human capability. Shutting your mind to that and presuming magical answers is what's "small-minded", if anything.

    There's features in the Great Pyramid that we don't understand, but they may simply not be anything all that special. Take the air shafts. Maybe they figured out that workers needed ventilation to not die and built that in. Maybe they're meant to be paths for an escaping ba to take. They don't have to be anything more complex than that. The "door" they found at the end of one shaft in the Great Pyramid? That's fascinating, but it may just be a built-in treasure chamber that was intended to house the Pharaoh's canopic jars, to keep them super-safe from grave robbers, the narrow tunnel being designed to let the ba have access but not any actual PEOPLE. We just don't know for sure, but that doesn't mean the answer has to be "MAGIC" or something.

    The pyramids ARE magnificent. But they're not inhumanly magnificent. They're a demonstration of human capacity, nothing more.


  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
    Endus please, i dont think you fully understand how long ago these things were built. I also think you are discounting why, sure i can contemplate a species wanting to "leave their mark" but not thousands across the globe in a similar time period.

    If you seriously think the "how" is as easy as "its easily done, just look at the records" we have nothing to speak about more. Again, do you REALIZE how long ago this was, were talking FOUR THOUSAND+ years ago, and its STILL standing today. I would LOVE To have an in person convo with you to express my enthusiasm for this subject, because its impossible to do on a forum.
    .

    "This will be a fight against overwhelming odds from which survival cannot be expected. We will do what damage we can."

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  14. #34
    The Lightbringer Pannonian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
    Endus please, i dont think you fully understand how long ago these things were built. I also think you are discounting why, sure i can contemplate a species wanting to "leave their mark" but not thousands across the globe in a similar time period.

    If you seriously think the "how" is as easy as "its easily done, just look at the records" we have nothing to speak about more. Again, do you REALIZE how long ago this was, were talking FOUR THOUSAND+ years ago, and its STILL standing today. I would LOVE To have an in person convo with you to express my enthusiasm for this subject, because its impossible to do on a forum.

    I think we are well aware how long ago this was, humans started building such structures even earlier. Very good video on this topic:



    But again, even though it was a huge undertaking, there is nothing mysterious about. Is there any specific you ground your opinion on, because then it would be probably easier to understand what you mean.

  15. #35
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    History is never wrong, but our record of it is a different matter.

  16. #36
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
    Endus please, i dont think you fully understand how long ago these things were built.
    I'm really not. The Great Pyramid, for instance, was built about 4500 years ago. Yes, that's a long damn time. No, it doesn't make its construction impossible, by any means. It was absolutely achievable for the people of that era, given that they invested decades of time by tens of thousands of workers to pull it off.

    I also think you are discounting why, sure i can contemplate a species wanting to "leave their mark" but not thousands across the globe in a similar time period.
    If you mean "why are pyramids so common in so many cultures", you're just going to get a pat response I'm blatantly stealing from elsewhere on the Internet.

    Maybe it's just the best way to make a big pile of rocks that doesn't fall over. It's like how most cultures, once they got into masonry, built houses that were rectangular, rather than round or the like. It's just easier to built straight walls. Nothing more magical than that.

    If you seriously think the "how" is as easy as "its easily done, just look at the records" we have nothing to speak about more. Again, do you REALIZE how long ago this was, were talking FOUR THOUSAND+ years ago, and its STILL standing today. I would LOVE To have an in person convo with you to express my enthusiasm for this subject, because its impossible to do on a forum.
    Again, I know how long ago these were built. But that doesn't say anything. People 4500 years ago were just as smart and inventive as we are today.

    As for why it's still standing, I'll refer you again to "it's the best shape to make a big pile of rocks that doesn't fall down". Particularly in Egypt, we have the full evolution, from the earliest masadas, and through examples of failed pyramid design, like the so-called "bent pyramid", which is presumed to have that shape because they realized the initial high angle was going to lead to collapse, so they changed that angle partway up, rather than demolish what they'd already built;



    The Great Pyramids were the end result of a long history of figuring this stuff out.


  17. #37
    Herald of the Titans Serpha's Avatar
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    The history they teach is school is wrong, everyone knows who was kings.

  18. #38
    Wrong as in incorrect? Holocaust deniers, flat earthers, young earth creationists, etc.

    Or wrong as in unethical/immoral? The idea that human history has been of negative value to the historical development of the planet/universe.
    Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -Thomas Jefferson

  19. #39
    I cant discuss things with this person, they literally are the status quo and will never be able to have an original thought in their lives.

    I have also watched every graham hancock video as well as ANY video you could imagine and ive come to this conclusion, we WERE more advanced but not in the way your human mind thinks. Its not that we lost some recipe on how to smelt steel or copper, we have an advanced knowledge on how to be as a PEOPLE. Look how fragmented our religion today makes us, do you really believe that is as good as it gets? I truly believe there is a connection between the structures left here on earth from thousands of years ago, and KNOWLEDGE OF A CREATOR. I am not talking about religion here, i am talking about actual knowledge of why we are here and what our purpose is. You see this is the way those types of buildings get completed, it is that kind of knowledge that pushes people to accomplish such things.

    I know i am just a random on the internet but please hear me out, i have taken our knowledge of the cosmos as well as our far reaching history and stictched out something that i believe is a truth. For hundreds of years before einstein came along everyone believed the earth was in the center of the universe. This knowledge the christian church had was simply scraps of a greater knowledge our ancestors posessed from thousands of years ago, when these structures were built. I think todays religions are simply scraps of what we have known in the past, that have simply been lost to time.

    What really bothers me about your posts @Endus is the way you assume to know how things are, when in reality you are incredibly off course and dont give near enough credit to the times. Stop typing like you do and think for a second, try and imagine what kind of motivation it would take to build the structures that still exist on this planet 4000-10000 years later (some have been dated to those numbers). Big things were happening then, please lets not belittle them.
    Last edited by Fascinate; 2017-02-10 at 05:31 PM.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    I mean our perception

    Is it possible there were civilizations far older than the ones we know of? Were they more advanced than we think?

    DISCUSS!
    No.

    Civilization hasn't really developed before the Neolithic Revolution roughly about 12500 years ago due to a number of factors, including geological, environmental and climate related.

    The fossil record and our on genetics essentially demonstrates that human populations were tiny for much of our history, we repeatedly went nearly extinct and then spent tens of thousands of years in largely isolated pockets.

    There are no pre-Neolithic civilizations because there are no pre-Neolithic population concentrations or evidence of agriculture, metallurgy or advanced stone work. Up until 12500 years ago we were mostly a rather sparsely populated tool using migratory mammalian ape species, capable of art, speech and tool making, but without the development of settlements, agriculture or advanced crafting, in consequence without the development of trade or statecraft.

    If you are interested in how humanity lived for much of its history simply read up on one of the many isolated Amazonian tribes. They craft tools, make art, sing songs, have unique cultures but tiny populations without the elements required to forge "civilization".

    Civilization developed by chance, often independently in different places, but had the environmental conditions been different, we might as well have never progressed beyond pre-Neolithic hunter-gatherers.

    I repeat for emphasis. There are no pre-Neolithic "lost" civilizations. There is absolutely no indication of it in the fossil, archeological and geological record.

    On the other hand there are a number of early Neolithic or Bronze Age cultures we literally know next to nothing about, like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurgan_hypothesis or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Peoples. Their influence on history is there, but due to the lack of things like written records or population centers we know almost nothing about them.
    Last edited by Mihalik; 2017-02-10 at 05:25 PM.

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