Is history wrong?

[Deleted]

Endus' good example of the pyramids is perfect for the flawed view that we have of history.

This is the first pyramid (that we know of) built by the ancient egyptians:




It's a complete mess when compared with the other Giza Pyramids. But it was the architectonic evolution of the mastaba, it took centuries of trail and error to get to the Pyramid of Khafre.

[purebalance]

Probably because of religious or conspiracy theory stuff. The infraction seems very unfair though.

That said, your ideas are absolutely bonkers. One of the most illogical ideas about the world I've read here in a long time.

I mean, but that is what has been wrong with this world for a long time. We silence those who have a different opinion instead of actually debating. The bible beaters used to do it, but now the left is just as at fault. So he believes in a deity, there's no evidence that one doesn't exist as much as there's no evidence that one does exist. Would it be as crazy to believe there is a true love out there for someone who never found it? I can say you have no proof that person exists and you could say I have no proof they don't exist.

[thatmikeguy]

It's very possible that there is lost history, that we don't have any record of today.

FAR more than possible.

[Deleted]

I wasn't really referring to the Exodus story in as far as just the existence of the slaves. But perhaps my ignorance is that they are both one and the same? Or did they not actually use slaves at all or if they did; were those slaves not comprised largely of jews? So many questions now; I suppose I didn't really need to get any work done today; spending the rest of the day lost in wikiland seems like a perfectly fine alternative.

Slaves were a very small percentage of the egyptian society, mainly warriors that they captured during wars.

[purebalance]

The dates of events in the textbook were wrong according to the dates of the events that were supposed to be happening at the exact time. So three sources would give one date, and more than five we found including maps with dates show no such thing. We also looked at old maps showing name changes, where a name was changed and then changed back again giving another date.

So you're just playing a vote out game instead of actually proving. Like was stated earlier in the thread, if it happened before the advent of technology to document it in a manner that people would see today, there would be no real proof without a time machine(which sadly can never exist because if you could travel in time, the earth, solar system, and galaxy would be EXTREMELY far away and you'd be floating in space or in the middle of another star).

[Endus]

If something is not observable and testable it is irrelevant to bring into a discussion about observable and testable things. Whether he believes in a creator or not is irrelevant to the point.

Example.

If you and I are calculating the angular momentum of our planet, whether you or I believe in a creator is utterly irrelevant to the number we need to come up with.

It's worse than that, because it prevents curiosity and discovery. It's not just irrelevant, it's actively repressive to human understanding. It's used as a stopgap for the unknown, and because it's so used, those who believe it stop trying to figure out that unknown, and just accept it.

"Why do volcanoes erupt?"
"Because the God that lives there is angry. Throw a virgin in and maybe that will satisfy him."

That's an "answer" that leads to virgins being sacrificed for no reason and never learning anything about volcanoes. It's worse than saying "I don't know".

And if such an entity did exist, there would be evidence of such. And there isn't. So why even entertain the possibility? It explains nothing, actively represses exploration and investigation, and provides nothing of benefit, in any way whatsoever. Other than a false sense of confidence in a fantasy story that someone literally made up. You may as well be arguing that Harry Potter is totally real.

[purebalance]

If something is not observable and testable it is irrelevant to bring into a discussion about observable and testable things. Whether he believes in a creator or not is irrelevant to the point.

Example.

If you and I are calculating the angular momentum of our planet, whether you or I believe in a creator is utterly irrelevant to the number we need to come up with.

Except his theory revolves around a creator so it is relevant.

[GodlyBob]

Like i said endus, we cant be friends

I understand there is "evidence" you can put together in your head, but that does not compute for me. Let me make it clear here i am not suggesting some crazy alien thoery no no no, what i am suggesting is something much more. I feel that many many thousands of years ago (far before the pyramids) the world had a greater knowledge of something, possibly a creator. And with that knowledge it is POSSIBLE that we gained a greater understanding of how to harness the energies on this planet.

Personally i believe that energy was sound, because it makes the most sense to me. Sound waves do some crazy stuff just based on how we see it and our understanding of it today. If i am honest i believe the pyramids and other megalithic structures were built with relative ease, not over decades with manpower as you declare. I feel we had a knowledge of how to manipulate some sort of energy on this planet that assisted in building these structures. (again, my guess is something to do with sound).

Obviously ridiculous notion to you, but i would be my life i am closer to truth than what our current "understanding" tells us about our past.

But...you're using a lot of "I believe" without evidence besides your personal epiphanies. You're giving us the equivalent of "tides come in, tides go out. You can't explain that." But we can and have rebutted by your "I don't believe you." There's no discussion.

[Fascinate]

Not really, no. It's completely unnecessary to the conversation, since it explains nothing, it's just a way to hand-wave human accomplishment and pretend that stuff was done because "magic". Where "magic" is just a way for you to refuse to think about the subject in the first place.

So no, I don't think there was a literal 50 foot tall superbeing with magic powers that lifted those stones into place, or something. And if you expect to convince anyone that there was, you're gonna have to pony up some actual evidence. Otherwise, I'll just say that of course there was no such "creator". There were just billions of alien nanomachines that eventually broke down.

And hell, that's more reasonable than your claims. Because those nanomachines don't break any fundamental laws of nature.

Why are you trying to silence me? Who am i hurting by simply suggesting an off the wall idea i have that adds up in my head? Can i even continue the conversation further or should i just agree the pyramids were built with manual labor over thousands of years?

[Auxora]

If it were on Earth I think we'd have found more evidence of it. So it's fairly doubtful, although I'm sure there are plenty of areas of knowledge people 2,000-10,000 years ago had beyond what we know. I've always thought if we could travel back in time to then that there would be things we'd be amazed that they did and knew (not to a sci-fi degree, but more fundamental things like architecture or math).

There's also the theory that human life existed long ago on another planet like Mars or even outside of our solar system, the humans there f'd it up (Mars looks a lot like a nuclear wasteland), and evacuated to Earth with a small group (maybe only a man and woman) losing their technological advances when it happened and having to start over. The Adam and Eve or Noah's Ark story could be thought of as an allusion to it. That's super-far-fetched and unlikely, but fun to think about and it would make a great book or movie.

[Deleted]

I understand there is "evidence" you can put together in your head, but that does not compute for me. Let me make it clear here i am not suggesting some crazy alien thoery no no no, what i am suggesting is something much more. I feel that many many thousands of years ago (far before the pyramids) the world had a greater knowledge of something, possibly a creator. And with that knowledge it is POSSIBLE that we gained a greater understanding of how to harness the energies on this planet.

Personally i believe that energy was sound, because it makes the most sense to me. Sound waves do some crazy stuff just based on how we see it and our understanding of it today. If i am honest i believe the pyramids and other megalithic structures were built with relative ease, not over decades with manpower as you declare. I feel we had a knowledge of how to manipulate some sort of energy on this planet that assisted in building these structures. (again, my guess is something to do with sound).

Explain the early mastabas and pyramids, like Djoser's, then.

[Endus]

Why are you trying to silence me?

Pointing out that your claims have no basis in reality isn't "silencing you".

Who am i hurting by simply suggesting an off the wall idea i have that adds up in my head?

In theory? Anyone who believes you. Not that I think you've convinced anyone, but pretending that your claims don't have any potential for harm is just wrong.

Can i even continue the conversation further or should i just agree the pyramids were built with manual labor over thousands of years?

Any specific pyramid was built in a matter of decades, not "thousands of years". That they were built over a long period isn't a significant argument, it's like being shocked that Greeks and Romans used architectural pillars for "thousands of years". Technically accurate, but without meaningful relevance. Particularly when there's a clear progression of design in that same period, with earlier examples being cruder and less structurally sound.

[thatmikeguy]

Not wrong but there are bits that are missing, knowledge lost and such things, ironically because of religion and war.

Science has had to deal with a lot of shit over the years.

If enough is missing, or falsely told, then it's possible that it's wrong.

[draynay]

should i just agree the pyramids were built with manual labor over thousands of years?

Who would you be agreeing with? Nobody thinks that.

[Elegiac]

Explain the early mastabas and pyramids, like Djoser's, then.

Literally the bad beta copies with unfinished skins and placeholder graphics.

[Deleted]

Literally the bad beta copies with unfinished skins and placeholder graphics.

Thank you for the laugh.

[Fascinate]

Pointing out that your claims have no basis in reality isn't "silencing you".



In theory? Anyone who believes you. Not that I think you've convinced anyone, but pretending that your claims don't have any potential for harm is just wrong.



Any specific pyramid was built in a matter of decades, not "thousands of years". That they were built over a long period isn't a significant argument, it's like being shocked that Greeks and Romans used architectural pillars for "thousands of years". Technically accurate, but without meaningful relevance.

Id love to respond to your individual comments but i apparently cannot because i just got an infraction in my inbox. I assumed it was you because you are a moderator, and are in this thread.

The thousands of years comments was a troll btw, apparently a poor one since no one got it....

[Extremity]

Is it possible? Sure. Is it likely? I don't know. Likely that there were civilizations older than our oldest recorded, but also far more "advanced" than... whatever you're comparing them to? Probably a lot less likely.

"Possible" is a pretty vague word. Yeah, I'd say it's possible, the same way buying three winning lottery tickets in a row is possible.

[GodlyBob]

It also depends on what time period you are talking about.

Well...old kingdom. When pyramid building was both prolific and awesome.

[Mehrunes]

Explain the early mastabas and pyramids, like Djoser's, then.

Humans had to master the art of constructing things with sound, duh. Even our enlightened ancestors didn't grasp it fully at first. They lack the intellect and wisdom of the creator.