Oklahoma : Women who want an abortion face needing the father’s written consent

[Elegiac]

...because the sexes were never meant to be equal, you fucking simpleton. Inequality exists in all nature, get over it.

So does malaria. That doesn't mean we shouldn't attempt to fix it by what institutions and technologies we possess.

[Total Crica]

...because the sexes were never meant to be equal, you fucking simpleton. Inequality exists in all nature, get over it.

Oh boy, another one thinking they know the purpose and meaning of all life in the universes. Please, do enlighten all of us lowly mortals, Mr. God person!

[Fugus]

I can halfway agree to this. Pregnancy can however have permanent damage caused to the woman, bodily and mentally. Forcing her to do that, even with costs covered for her, is still forcing a very traumatizing thing on her if she is unwilling.

That would be an extenuating circumstance which would completely override it. If the life of the mother is in danger then it would necessitate the child's abortion regardless of the desires of the other party. I would use the same criteria they use for harm of the mother in government funded abortion where they allowed it under situations of Rape, Incest, or risk to the mother.

[Halyon]

It's more about the 'sex slave' thing.

If we had intelligent robots I would fully support robosexual marriage and the like.

That's dumb people imposing too much symbolic value were they shouldn't. Sure, you can have your opinion about things, but not everything you don't like is backed by malicious intent. Not aimed at you btw.

But you know how tumblr tends to be...

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

We come again to the timeless issue of "how are we supposed to make this fair to both parties when their contribution to the process of making a child is inherently unequal?"

This has its problems, allowing the man to "abort responsibility" and essentially opt out has its problems, I'll be honest I have no idea what they should do. It'd be a hell of a lot simpler if people just stayed together and raised the kids.

Abortion being available is a wildcard though. In the days without that option I'd always side with the mother here. But we 100% totally have an opt out for both parties. At X amount of weeks, when the woman finds out she is pregnant, the baby isn't born, or alive, or sentient. It has no rights. But if the woman decides to keep it, she is essentially forcing the father to accept and respect the rights of a child who doesn't even exist. Thats why people bring up the "opt out financially" idea. Mainly because, at this point abortion is still an option. The baby isn't born. There is no clothes needed, no mouth to feed. But you know, if the woman wants a baby, or feels like having it, or her religion forces her to keep it. Well you know, fuck the father and his feelings on the subject.

[Elba]

Why is half of the USA still 10 years behind on the world?

Anyone bringing up this discussion in West-Europe would be committing suicide politically and on credibility in all aspects of life.

More like 50 years.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

It's more about the 'sex slave' thing.

If we had intelligent robots I would fully support robosexual marriage and the like.

Well, thats a large jump from fancy blowup doll ----- to intelligent robot sex device.

[Halyon]

That would be an extenuating circumstance which would completely override it. If the life of the mother is in danger then it would necessitate the child's abortion regardless of the desires of the other party. I would use the same criteria they use for harm of the mother in government funded abortion where they allowed it under situations of Rape, Incest, or risk to the mother.

I would definately not call it circumstantial when it's by nature a forced pregnancy if the man HAS to obstruct the woman who desires an abortion, which is the premise.

That's why the bill is bollocks. Of course, if the woman is willing to carry the child anyway, if she is compensated, then there is no need to take it on by law.

I agree to allow men to have financial severence/abortion, which must be a completed process before the last reasonable deadline for the woman to obtain an abortion, so as to not abuse vindictive assholery, and he gives up any and all parental rights, cannot re-obtain them, and he cannot attempt to influence the raising of the child in any way, educational and any other way.

[igualitarist]

I love those people who say that a fetus is the woman's body...

Really, basic science guys. Take the dna of a fetus and the dna of the mother, if you show me they are the same, then you can tell me its the woman's body

Why is half of the USA still 10 years behind on the world?

Anyone bringing up this discussion in West-Europe would be committing suicide politically and on credibility in all aspects of life.

Europe =/= The world.

[Blizzhoof]

Women have a right to bodily autonomy.

Innocent children have the right to life (and that's actually an enumerated right). Granted, I know you guys are so anti-science that you think a human fetus isn't a human until it exits the magic vagina and abracadabra goes from a "clump of cells" to a human being.

I just wish you all were intellectually honest enough to at least admit it's murdering an innocent child, but then that would require you guys to explain why killing people because they inconvenience you is okay as long as they are small enough.

[Elegiac]

Innocent children have the right to life (and that's actually an enumerated right). Granted, I know you guys are so anti-science that you think a human fetus isn't a human until it exits the magic vagina and abracadabra goes from a "clump of cells" to a human being.

I just wish you all were intellectually honest enough to at least admit it's murdering an innocent child, but then that would require you guys to explain why killing people because they inconvenience you is okay as long as they are small enough.

Assuming the right to life is inviolable. Funny. Also, the issue is whether or not it is a person, which it isn't.

[Halyon]

I love those people who say that a fetus is the woman's body...

Really, basic science guys. Take the dna of a fetus and the dna of the mother, if you show me they are the same, then you can tell me its the woman's body

Basic medical knowledge; a fetus cannot be removed from the woman's body, it will die if it's removed, regardless of what you do to it otherwise. Preborns at even 22 weeks have really, really, really low chances of survival, and it requires very intensive care to even giving it that chance. And barely any abortions take place at this gestational age. It's considered property under feticide for the purpose of restitutional punishment. Law says it's property. And I'm inclined to agree, quite adamantly, when it's combined with everything else. That makes it partial property of the man as well, don't get me wrong, but he has less ownership over it in this state because it does not affect him to near the same degree as the woman. It sucks, but the alternatives, like this bill, are a lot fucking worse.

So...show me any valid evidence that the fetus, which is not a person, has no rights, no will, nothing to speak of...is superior to a woman and the right to autonomy. And that's just 1 right out of many.

You can't.

[Halyon]

Innocent children have the right to life (and that's actually an enumerated right). Granted, I know you guys are so anti-science that you think a human fetus isn't a human until it exits the magic vagina and abracadabra goes from a "clump of cells" to a human being.

I just wish you all were intellectually honest enough to at least admit it's murdering an innocent child, but then that would require you guys to explain why killing people because they inconvenience you is okay as long as they are small enough.

I don't think you know the difference between science and medicine. Or ethics.

[Elegiac]

How is it possible you're this stupid. Tell me where in nature inequality doesn't exist. I'm not as tall or as talented as an NBA player, that's unequal. I'm not as fast as a cheetah, that unequal. Women are better at somethings than men and vice verse. Just because it's unequal doesn't make it wrong or unnatural. I mean, do you lack critical thinking ability?

It is when that inequality is used to keep disadvantaged people as a member of an underclass.

Again, we utilise technology to overcome these disadvantages. You can go much faster than a cheetah by means of automobile, for instance.

[Wyrt]

Innocent children have the right to life (and that's actually an enumerated right). Granted, I know you guys are so anti-science that you think a human fetus isn't a human until it exits the magic vagina and abracadabra goes from a "clump of cells" to a human being.

I just wish you all were intellectually honest enough to at least admit it's murdering an innocent child, but then that would require you guys to explain why killing people because they inconvenience you is okay as long as they are small enough.

Science doesn't have a declaration of when something is considered human.

[Runenwächter]

Women complaining about getting the short end of the stick? Gosh, talk about size queens.

Really flawed proposal. Paternity test, naming the biological father and the right of the biological father to opt out are great. This has been decades overdue now.
The option for men to leverage the pregnancy against her or force her to carry through on the other hand is just unethical and absolute shit tier.

[ipaq]

Women complaining about getting the short end of the stick? Gosh, talk about size queens.

Really flawed proposal. Paternity test, naming the biological father and the right of the biological father to opt out are great. This has been decades overdue now.
The option for men to leverage the pregnancy against her or force her to carry through on the other hand is just unethical and absolute shit tier.

The American are raging about the Islamic Sharia laws... and yet they go ahead with the Christians Sharia laws...

https://rewire.news/legislative-tracker/state/oklahoma/

What's next? Women must walk 10 paces behind their husbands?

[Total Crica]

How is it possible you're this stupid. Tell me where in nature inequality doesn't exist. I'm not as tall or as talented as an NBA player, that's unequal. I'm not as fast as a cheetah, that unequal. Women are better at somethings than men and vice verse. Just because it's unequal doesn't make it wrong or unnatural. I mean, do you lack critical thinking ability?

I don't care about what other life does or doesn't do. I care about MY life and what impacts it and how my life impacts other lives.

[igualitarist]

Basic medical knowledge; a fetus cannot be removed from the woman's body, it will die if it's removed, regardless of what you do to it otherwise. Preborns at even 22 weeks have really, really, really low chances of survival, and it requires very intensive care to even giving it that chance. And barely any abortions take place at this gestational age.

So...show me any valid evidence that the fetus, which is not a person, has no rights, no will, nothing to speak of...is superior to a woman and the right to autonomy. And that's just 1 right out of many.

You can't.

What defines a human being ?? The fact of being poppet out of a vagina or the dna ?? Well, i think that's the second option.

Also, you assume a fetus has no right, and that's not right in many countries. And be glad for this, because otherwise you could not be here. The main right of a fetus is the right to live. But, talking about my country now, fetuses have even some patrimonal rights.

Also, if you adopt this idea that "if cannot survive by itself then it should die, or its not a human", then we can apply this to newborns and to some people with heavy debilitations as well.

So, considering that the right to live is the most important right we have, why it should be put below the right of body autonomy ? Hell, why even the right of body autonomy should even hurt the financial autonomy of the father ??

If the pregnancy is unwanted, either the 2 parents should have the obligation to take care of the kid, or at least have the dignity to take it to adoption centers. You know, there are plenty of unfertile couples and gays couples out there wanting to adopt a kid.

Its no right, not even about equality, when only one side can have the option to opt out of the parenthood, while the other part have to pay support for at least 18 years.

Either both should have the right to opt out (which i do not agree), or none of them should have this right.

[Total Crica]

Innocent children have the right to life (and that's actually an enumerated right). Granted, I know you guys are so anti-science that you think a human fetus isn't a human until it exits the magic vagina and abracadabra goes from a "clump of cells" to a human being.

I just wish you all were intellectually honest enough to at least admit it's murdering an innocent child, but then that would require you guys to explain why killing people because they inconvenience you is okay as long as they are small enough.

Your right to life is only imparted by you being able to sustain your life or by other lives WILLINGLY sustaining your life for you.

If one of those two things doesn't happen, your right to life doesn't exist.

(not you personally, you as in anything that is alive)