rogues are weak

[ymirsson]

And still not a single rogue have topped any mythic logs in NH ?

do you need to top a mythic log to not be considered weak?

[Deleted]

This is exactly what I was thinking. You don't get to pick a spec that's amazing at single target AND AoE.

Many classes do, though.

[crazyfool319]

Being one of the best on bosses is fine for any raid. But for mythic + its absolute garbage. No one wants to take subpar aoe into a plus even if their dps is insane on a boss. I main a rogue, but when i do plus on my tank i dont want to bring any rogues unless they are over 900 ilvl because an 890ish DH or DK can do a better job. Mythic plus is all about total dps, something that even outlaw rogues cant compete with. For the most part a rogue is serviceable, but pugs are not rogue friendly. You need to outgear the content to be brought in. Raid/plus leaders want that aoe, sin rogues cant do it. And outlaw just really isnt good enough across the board. They are capable of getting the job done, but most people want bigger numbers on a boss(outlaw doesnt get that) or bigger overall numbers(assassin is way behind there)

[barackohmama]

Assassination is by far the strongest single target spec in the game, which is really valuable in any raid. Just because you're slightly behind in total dmg does not mean the class is weak.

[Hotmail]

Three-roll outlaw with single-target legendaries is competitive with Assassination. Six-roll outlaw completely shits on assassination.

Assassination is currently the 2nd best single-target spec in the game.

?

[cFortyfive]

And still not a single rogue have topped any mythic logs in NH ?

wasn't aware a rank 1 on a boss was the requirement to be not considered weak and obviously means a lot more than representation on progression with the best guilds this game has to offer

[RobertoCarlos]

I'm not denying that, but not everyone is a mythic raider on the top of the game. It is indeed ok to be less then the most effective, if it fits your situation. If your raid fails because you don't meet the minimum DPS or you fail mechanics because you were occupied with your buttons, then you should consider to change a thing or two, maybe your spec, maybe your UI, but there are much more people casually (as in not hardcore) playing along then there are raids being held back by people preferring their pet spec.

I wish people would stop looking which spec/class is the best and other people to simply learn to suck less.

This I can agree with, but try telling that to the general public when trying to do content. Yes Yes just join a guild. But not everyone is online when you are or wants to do the same content.

[ymirsson]

This I can agree with, but try telling that to the general public when trying to do content. Yes Yes just join a guild. But not everyone is online when you are or wants to do the same content.

That's also correct, but nowadays, anything below raids (or mythic+ beyond a certain level) doesn't need an scheduled group. World bosses are glorified loot pinatas. Hero dungeons are starting points for green equipped alts.

PuG leaders asking for minimum ilvls(mostly 10 ilvls more then the loot of the instance in question) or shunning specs and whole classes are simply stupid, misinformed and insecure.

In summary; rogues are not weak, but the public perception always was mostly negative.

[shaunika123]

You mean that level where you take 2-3 rogues to any of the last encounters ? Can't be that weak

that's mainly due to abusing the legendary bracers tho
at least for Star augur it's definitely that

and it's not like they're not taking 2-3 DHs and 2-3fury warriors as well :P

melees overall are in a really good spot atm, so let's celebrate this once in a lifetime occasion.

[cFortyfive]

that's mainly due to abusing the legendary bracers tho
at least for Star augur it's definitely that

and it's not like they're not taking 2-3 DHs and 2-3fury warriors as well :P

Not sure how that's relevant and definitely too lazy to search for top 10 kills with 3 warriors and frost dks.
Anyway I am perfectly fine with melees being in a good spot and again given their representation on kills it's ridiculous to argue assa is "weak" when it comes to high end pve progression.

[shaunika123]

Not sure how that's relevant and definitely too lazy to search for top 10 kills with 3 warriors and frost dks.
Anyway I am perfectly fine with melees being in a good spot and again given their representation on kills it's ridiculous to argue assa is "weak" when it comes to high end pve progression.

oh im not arguing that, in fact the OP is a total and complete moron
im just trying to reduce the counterargument of "assa is OP in single target shut up" as well :P
i also didnt mention frost DKs

exorsus had 3 warriors 3 DHs and 3 rogues on their FK of guldan

[Maelstrom51]

Assassination is one of the best specs in the game simply because its so much higher on boss damage.

Other rogue specs are looking pretty poor though.

[shaunika123]

Assassination is one of the best specs in the game simply because its so much higher on boss damage.

Other rogue specs are looking pretty poor though.

they're really not
both sub and OL are in a pretty decent state atm
they're just not the best

[RobertoCarlos]

Outlaw wouldnt be so shit if it had more than 2 relic options and a compulsory legendary (bracer) to be able to even compete. Then add in RtB rng and nty.

Sub....no comment.

[Hotmail]

Outlaw wouldnt be so shit if it had more than 2 relic options and a compulsory legendary (bracer) to be able to even compete. Then add in RtB rng and nty.

Sub....no comment.

You have more options than Fatebringer and Fate's Thirst as Outlaw - your relics of choice really all depend on your current setup.

My Rogue has the Nighthold 2set, a fuckitude of Mastery and Insignia of Ravenholdt, so I ended up having to build around Saber Slash & Main Gauche more than a Outlaw Rogue normally would. I run Swordmaster & Vigor (even on single target fights), one +% Main Gauche damage relic and two Combat Potency relics.

I can reroll the bones more often without risking energy starvation, and the damage is much more consistent than Quick Draw + Stratagem builds.

- - - Updated - - -

Sub is like... I don't know. Amazing mobility in PvP, and it feels great to take no fall damage when you're doing World Quests, but it's a pretty obscure spec for raiding. Maybe people are missing something.

[Deleted]

I think rogues need too much equipment to be able to compete with others. Look at the sims, always agi 1 point the others 0.7x. On other classes their principal stat doesn't sim that high, does I wanna think that their dps is not so gear dependant.
On the other side assasination is perfectly ok, even if you tunnel anything your total dps is fine, so no need to worry.

I main sub and spec is starting to feel comfortable, but whatever you do you have the feeling that it is not your performance, I can't go up more than 750k on 3mobcleave fights and 550k dps on st "long" fights. For as assa rogue that is lucky with bombs does 1M easy and 650k st just cause I used vendetta vanish rupture and kingsbane

[cFortyfive]

i also didnt mention frost DKs

exorsus had 3 warriors 3 DHs and 3 rogues on their FK of guldan

The op did though. Well no idea about the latter I have to rely on wowprogress there since I don't really care about the race enough to stay that informed.

[Deleted]

Assassination is by far the strongest single target spec in the game, which is really valuable in any raid. Just because you're slightly behind in total dmg does not mean the class is weak.

It isn´t:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/11#boss=1867

[Maelstrom51]

It isn´t:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/11#boss=1867

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...metric=bossdps

Assassination is by far the strongest single target spec in the game, which is really valuable in any raid. Just because you're slightly behind in total dmg does not mean the class is weak.

[Deleted]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...metric=bossdps

Yeah you just further reinforced my point, thanks for that.