1009 Maw of Souls runs needed to max out Artifact in 7.2

[glowpipe]

Elaborate bad game design?

They think its a bad design because they think the first thing they have to to do is maxing out your weapon. That you are forced to do this before starting to enjoy the game

[Deleted]

This is /thread. Sorry OP, you fall into the first category. I highly doubt you are racing for world firsts here, so chill out.

So he can only min-max when he is competing for WF? wtf

[markos82]

1) You based this off 6-9's when spamming 10s is almost just as fast in top tier gear.

2) You don't need to do this in a day. You will have several weeks at 400,000% AP to get 3,635mill/3.65billion assuming you're 54 already.

3) LFR will give 1,080,000, normal = 1,200,000, heroic 1,600,000 and mythic 2,000,000 /boss from all old and current raid content. You will have a total of 20 bosses in old content, meaning you have a potential of 117,600,000 AP from old raid content per week. This means up to 600million per month of just old raid content.

4) It isn't unreasonable that on a good farm week, you can do 50 10+ M+ if you have a free day or two. That's 240,000,000 there. While 3.6 billion IS a lot, it will soon wittle down when you consider random content here and there, daily world quests etc.

5) If you aren't planning to raid at the highest level, it is in no way necessary for you to max out an artifact. I know people want that completionist feeling, but this is really not for the 2 hours/week casuals who, lets be honest, don't need this for WQs, LFR, normal raiding, world pvp or BGs/Arena.

Also worth noting, if Argus is the last raid and 7.2 will last for 7-8 months, then it's very possible that this is just the legendary ring equivilent to nerf content as the tier progresses to make mythic end game accessible to more people. Content will likely not be tuned around a fully complete artifact at all unless there is a 7.3 raid.

1. But it takes longer than 7 depending on group and affiexis.

2. to get to max AK it will take few months so you wont start at max

3. And another 20+ hours week to do it provided that average player can clear mythic raids.

4. No its not, average dungeon with decent group can take 10-15min, 50 dungeons is lets say average of 600min or 10 hours so it will take you 150 hours of playtime at least, thats not counting finding a group getting to a dungeon and so on. thats 6 days of play time, for an average player that will be a month or so.

5. That is BS and everyone saying that is an idiot. You dont need best gear to do WQ and M+ <10 but why do you collect gear. Because you want to be competitive, not everything about this game is being in top 100 in the world.

So you will have one artifact weapon upgraded to max if you play on average 5 hours a day for next 7 months but yeah what about OS and alts?!?

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

So he can only min-max when he is competing for WF? wtf

You can min-max whenever you want. Just don't act like its forced in any way shape or form of the word, and don't act like this system is somehow detrimental to the game.

[Deleted]

This is /thread. Sorry OP, you fall into the first category. I highly doubt you are racing for world firsts here, so chill out.

It's funny how you think this is only a issue for a hardcore min-maxers (which I'm not btw), and forgets about other very important playerbases of the game.

- Returning players

Returning to the game is already hard enough with the timegating and AP gating required to join any reasonable Mythic guild. With this grind becoming 4 times harder in 7.2, it will become even harder for returning players to catch up.
"b-but muh world quests"
Sure that's a fine argument, but you forget that returning players haven't done any world quests or anything. They will start at square 1, and be forced to grind dungeons in order to catch up. Maybe you think this is a good system, but I think this is very bad game design.

- PvPers

Are you people defending this terrible decision forgetting that Blizzard will make bonus/paragon traits avaiable in PvP? Aka people who want to compete in arena will have to grind dungeons. How exactly is this good game design? To make people grind for weeks to be able to competetitve? Bare in mind that the grind takes literally 0 skill whatsoever, it's simply a grind.


I fail to see how people can defend this system, but this forum never ceases to amaze me

[Desparil]

Insane min-maxers will say: MUST DO IT! *starts awful grind*
Min-maxers will say: Life is more than this - I can maximize my gear spending more time on raid boss.
Rest of the players will say: Damn this looks grindy af, not doing it. *casts frostbolt on harpy*

I don't think that the benefit of +X% is worth losing all this time and being unhappy in a game so... I avoid it.

So much this /thread.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I fail to see how people can defend this system, but this forum never ceases to amaze me

Mainly because its just insane to imply that a new or returning player would need to grind MoS 1009 times. Its just insane.

[markos82]

Mainly because its just insane to imply that a new or returning player would need to grind MoS 1009 times. Its just insane.

Actually it will take more Provided that new/returning player just started with his Artifact weapon

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Actually it will take more Provided that new/returning player just started with his Artifact weapon

Maybe, but thats is beside the point. The issue here is people implying that its necessary, or forced at all. Which it isn't.

[Deleted]

@Solobang have you even done any PVP this expansion? It is extremely easy to get artifact power from battlegrounds and arenas not to mention that ''being pvper'' doesn't mean you must only do pvp content to stay relevant so doing WQ's and stuff isn't exactly ''bad'' to make PVP'ers do that content since it benefits their aspect same as doing PVP isn't bad for PVE since it provides you strong gear.

The issue is as stated above when there are no limits to people must do it as soon as possible instead of actually enjoy the content.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I'd like to just point out to you, and this is ignoring the whole 75 days to even get to AK 40.

The amount of AP(with AK40 taken into account) required for the new traits is more than triple the amount AK 25/54points took.

Essentially, you'd be less than a third through your weapon right now.

and?

It isn't really that big of a deal. It is good to have something to progress though for the course of an expansion. I don't need it all right now. I mean I will still be raiding mythic and I still will be doing pretty much whatever I want. Unlike a ton of really small minded guilds out their ours realizes that all of this content can be done WITHOUT a maxed out weapon.

Not to mention as I said before. Odds are I will be 54 by then anyway. It isn't like the patch is dropping next week.

[Deleted]

Mainly because its just insane to imply that a new or returning player would need to grind MoS 1009 times. Its just insane.

No you're right, they also need to catch up with Artifact Knowledge

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

No you're right, they also need to catch up with Artifact Knowledge

Citation needed on your usage of the word "need."

[Deleted]

@Solobang have you even done any PVP this expansion? It is extremely easy to get artifact power from battlegrounds and arenas not to mention that ''being pvper'' doesn't mean you must only do pvp content to stay relevant so doing WQ's and stuff isn't exactly ''bad'' to make PVP'ers do that content since it benefits their aspect same as doing PVP isn't bad for PVE since it provides you strong gear.

The issue is as stated above when there are no limits to people must do it as soon as possible instead of actually enjoy the content.

Yes it is easy to get AP from PvP, but the quantity of it is less than none.

Example: Cdew

He has done a total of 44 dungeons, killed a total of 170 Legion bosses (yes I actually counted), but the absolute majority of his time he spend doing arena because that's what he finds fun

Well guess what, currently he only has 45 traits, which means he's only 63% done with the AP farm.

That's of course no big deal currently, but in the next season when they'll enable 54 traits in PvP and in 7.2 when they'll make the grind 4 times as long, it'll be hard for him to be competitive in rated arena.

[Kalador]

i don't mind the length of the grind to much, it's something you get by playing the game, it's made to be a reward to keep you interested in aspect of the game where there is no more hear/upgrade. the number are pretty funny tho, 400 million AP, when we started at like 100 per token is kind a weird.


The only major problem i have with AP and it's a big one fro me is that prevent dual spec or triple spec. I play a rogue because i like playing more than one spec, i love switching spec between encounter to max my damage and to change my gameplay, it's the main reason i love playing pure dps, i can play 3 dps in 1... All the past expac i could always switch, it was a bit of effort to maintain 2 sets of good weapon and 2-3 sets of gear for best stats but it was worth it. This expac it's just not really doable and when it was about to be the put another layer of grind on top of it. I tired to maintain 3 or 2 weapon this expac but you reach a point where it's just to hard and you fall behind to quickly. i have 52 in my sin wep and 40 in my outlaw and you can feel the difference, and don't even think about trying to maintain sub to the same level... add on top of that all the legendary RNG and the fact you need to stay main spec for loot spec all the time and in the end i almost never switch spec, more solution should have been thought for relics AP and legendary across specs ...

They got rid of the dual spec thing this expac but in the end it has never been so hard to play more than one spec, this expac is insanely unfriendly to alt and it's also unfriendly to people who like maxing everything in there main... This for me could be the killer...

[markos82]

Maybe, but thats is beside the point. The issue here is people implying that its necessary, or forced at all. Which it isn't.

It is if you wanna play the game. You need gear to do high lvl M+, you need gear to do raids, you need gear for everything PvE related ( except WQ and normal/hc dungeons provided that you have ilvl needed to join one ). So you really think ppl wont ask you for your Artifact weapon rank? I mean can you honestly tell me that it wont be needed?

[Verdugo]

Citation needed on your usage of the word "need."

True, they dont need to do fuckall, just keep the subscription going and never turn on the game.

[Sansnom]

On topic, while I can't say that I'm not surprised that Blizzard pulled this kind of stunt, I'm sure that it'll cost them hundreds of thousands of more subs. Because I know I'm not going to fucking spend every waking minute of my day doing maw of souls 6-9 just because Blizzard has to make everything a grind.

It is not entirely Blizzards fault. Some players complained there was not enough to do in WoD. Some players wanted the "grind" back. I can only guess Blizzard listened and agree and gave them what they wanted.

A grind. Afterall, these players did say, this is an MMO. There is suppose to be a grind.

[markos82]

It is not entirely Blizzards fault. Some players complained there was not enough to do in WoD. Some players wanted the "grind" back. I can only guess Blizzard listened and agree and gave them what they wanted.

A grind. Afterall, these players did say, this is an MMO. There is suppose to be a grind.

MMO shouldnt be about the grind and insane RNG. And no, people compained when we had 10 months of one raid in WoD, grinding AP is same as killing Archimonde week after week after week. Its the same fucking thing only masked behind AP grind. Remove that and you still dont have much to do, you are still doing 1000s of same WQ doing same dungeons and not seeing new content.

[Count Zero]

Yes it is easy to get AP from PvP, but the quantity of it is less than none.

Example: Cdew

He has done a total of 44 dungeons, killed a total of 170 Legion bosses (yes I actually counted), but the absolute majority of his time he spend doing arena because that's what he finds fun

Well guess what, currently he only has 45 traits, which means he's only 63% done with the AP farm.

That's of course no big deal currently, but in the next season when they'll enable 54 traits in PvP and in 7.2 when they'll make the grind 4 times as long, it'll be hard for him to be competitive in rated arena.

You're assuming most arena players aren't in a similar AP situation