Coming out as a conservative - How polarization push moderates to take a stand.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

Here is a question... why the need to associate your self with either party or any ideology? Why not support issues on their merits, instead of bitching about others having an impression of you, that was expressed by other claiming to represent the same ideology? Even if you were a Nazi, isn't it better to just support nationalism and isolationism through authoritarianism, without the stigma of the holocaust? If Trump ever said he is a Nazi while a republican, you saying you are a republican, should make the reply calling you a Nazi at least understandable. After all, you chose to share a party with a Nazi... you could have just supported the issues, but you chose the affiliation.

What this article is an example of, is people not understanding what it means to claim representation of a political movement, while at the same time claiming that others doing the same don't define you. No, you chose to define your self and claiming that you are unfairly judged as a result, just means you don't understand what that means.

Perhaps that is right in a sense - you shouldn't put your identity onto a political party. On this, I agree. Again, as I've said repeatedly, I'm on the left - but I end up disagreeing with the methods used by the far-left rather than the ideologies themselves. I do disagree with some values, like intersectionality, but otherwise, I'm still very open. But because I speak out on ideas that the far-left deem vital, I'm being shunned. I get called a Nazi. I get called a right-wing nutjob. I have never, in my life, supported right-wing parties.

I won't become a conservative. But I'm willing to have discussions with conservatives because far-left groups are not open to discussion. Again, on this forum, a number of people who can discuss without resorting to categorize you is simply beyond challenging.

PS: I think Moore's decision to become a conservative is tied with the fact that he has been shunned more than intricate personal ideologies. Still, that they openly accept him in their group is outstanding, considering that ten years ago, homosexuality was strongly debated within conservative circles.

[primalmatter]

It hasn't gone well so far. Especially as some Trumps picks are downright crazy. Want more votes? Drop the crazy.

Start with Bannon and Devos btw.

Crazy and blunt are two different things.

Trump is blunt but so far from crazy.

[Felya]

The reality is that beyond these marginals, the conservatives are much closer to the ideology of the moderate left than the rise of the extreme left we're seeing right now. Again, that's the sad part.

Extreme left? Both parties are corporatist, there is no extreme left representative. There is no left version of the tea party. There is no left candidate like Trump. There is no way in hell anything GOP in US is moderate.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I am coming out to the side that one this go around...

VERY VERY BRAVE OF YOU... BROVO

[Macaquerie]

The reality is that beyond these marginals, the conservatives are much closer to the ideology of the moderate left than the rise of the extreme left we're seeing right now. Again, that's the sad part.

Just because so called "conservatives" these days are in favor of handouts for people who look like them, and a police state for everyone who doesn't, that doesn't make them left wing or statist, just simple minded and self centered.

[Azadina]

But these law don't get pushed, because a large majority of moderates disagree with it. And again, in a sense, the polarized right that tries to push these law projects are simply seen as a joke. Perhaps ten years ago, it wouldn't have been too wild to think it could be possible, but today? No chance of it seriously happening.

The reality is that beyond these marginals, the conservatives are much closer to the ideology of the moderate left than the rise of the extreme left we're seeing right now. Again, that's the sad part.

Oh but it'll be even worse. You know who was confirmed as secretary of education? And what sort of great religious ideas she's already spoken of? Those do get pushed, by people in power, not some protesters in the streets with no power to speak of.

Crazy and blunt are two different things.

Trump is blunt but so far from crazy.

But I named two names who are flat out crazy.

[Felya]

Perhaps that is right in a sense - you shouldn't put your identity onto a political party. On this, I agree. Again, as I've said repeatedly, I'm on the left - but I end up disagreeing with the methods used by the far-left rather than the ideologies themselves. I do disagree with some values, like intersectionality, but otherwise, I'm still very open. But because I speak out on ideas that the far-left deem vital, I'm being shunned. I get called a Nazi. I get called a right-wing nutjob. I have never, in my life, supported right-wing parties.

I won't become a conservative. But I'm willing to have discussions with conservatives because far-left groups are not open to discussion. Again, on this forum, a number of people who can discuss without resorting to categorize you is simply beyond challenging.

PS: I think Moore's decision to become a conservative is tied with the fact that he has been shunned more than intricate personal ideologies. Still, that they openly accept him in their group is outstanding, considering that ten years ago, homosexuality was strongly debated within conservative circles.

Perhaps that association has little to do with your ideology and more to do with assertions of the extreme left, when I bet you cannot think of a single moderately left ideology passed in the last 30 years of US.

Edit: What would it mean about you, if moderately or even full on conservative ideology, was called extreme liberal by you?

PS: Check the formation date:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Log_Cabin_Republicans

Want to change that 10 to 40?

[Mad_Murdock]

Think the difference is scale... the far right is seen as a fringe group. The far left isn't really perceived as that. They riot on the street commonly and kick up a media circus. Right now the left needs desperate reformation while the right can still sweep the crazy under the rug.

I myself would identify has conservative, but I don't\won't identify has republican has they are today (or even 8 years ago). In my book, the far right went off the cliff a while ago. The far left has only recently started going off the cliff has they became the more powerful of the 2 parties. Mostly I still think it's a case that many people haven't really moved from their core, just the parties themselves have moved so much, the middle doesn't really want to identify with either. We just need to get folks to give up the "Must vote for X party no matter what" mindset

[Damajin]

The neo-right of today is not the same as being conservative.

They just would like to be called "conservative" to act as if they would be part of a large group of people.

The first thing you said is correct, the second is just habitual usage of pre existing designations. Eventually they'll wake up and realize that the conservative tag isn't what they are nor does it mean what it used to. When we've got milquetoast moderates and right wing liberals walking around calling themselves conservative it's time to jettison the label as it's just cheap gimmick advertising at this point.

[Thage]

But these law don't get pushed, because a large majority of moderates disagree with it. And again, in a sense, the polarized right that tries to push these law projects are simply seen as a joke. Perhaps ten years ago, it wouldn't have been too wild to think it could be possible, but today? No chance of it seriously happening.

The reality is that beyond these marginals, the conservatives are much closer to the ideology of the moderate left than the rise of the extreme left we're seeing right now. Again, that's the sad part.

As much as you keep claiming this, all we need to do is look at the current executive and legislative branches of federal government to completely torpedo that. Donald Trump ran on a ticket of authoritarianism, isolationism, and nationalism, and he crushed the primary elections. Congressional conservatives have been overrun by Tea Party far-right extremists since Obama took office, and even the "moderate" right like Paul Ryan and Rand Paul are extreme in their fiscal conservatism.

Even taking into account the historically-low presidential turnout, what represents a party is, well, its representatives, and right now conservatives are striking out there. This news article also assumes that hard-right conservatives don't dogpile on "the enemy" the same hard-left liberals do, when Milo got banned from Twitter specifically because of his long and documented history of getting alt-right brigades dogpiling on other users.

There's at least as many instances of alt-right accounts laying siege to a moderate as there are SJWs doing the same. The only difference is which one fits your confirmation bias, and you've made that answer pretty clear in this thread. If you're going to be alienated from one side's behavior while excusing the same behavior on the other side, you lose a whole lot of ground when trying to present your stance as moderate.

[Independent voter]

"I believe everyone should carry their weight in society and if everyone did so we'd all be better off," is a conservative thought.

[Shadowferal]

The left is dying from its self inflicted wounds...

They're not the ones identifying with Trump.
Although if you believe Trump is going to MAGA...then we've confirmed where exactly the self-inflicted harm is being done...(Say hi to that Nazi Bannon)

Frankly, I refuse to be identified as either as I see both as crazy for letting money dictate politics.

[Azadina]

"I believe everyone should carry their weight in society and if everyone did so we'd all be better off," is a conservative thought.

The devil is in the details

[Thage]

"I believe everyone should carry their weight in society and if everyone did so we'd all be better off," is a conservative thought.

The other side of that coin is, "I think everyone who carries their weight in society should make enough not to need government assistance or charity" is apparently a liberal thought.

[primalmatter]

They're not the ones identifying with Trump.
Although if you believe Trump is going to MAGA...then we've confirmed where exactly the self-inflicted harm is being done...(Say hi to that Nazi Bannon)

Frankly, I refuse to be identified as either as I see both as crazy for letting money dictate politics.

I don't think hes a nazi...

[Thage]

I don't think hes a nazi...

Bannon is, though Trump's missing a few key components. Bannon has a long history of anti-semitism, white nationalism to the point of fanaticism, and heavily-authoritarian leanings. He's also gone on record that he wants to tear down the current establishment and preys on a scared populace to advance his agenda. These are all right out of Mussolini's playbook, to narrowly avoid a Godwin.

[Felya]

I don't think hes a nazi...

Which is fine. He can just be an isolationist, nationalist, who thinks there is a religious war brewing. That only highlights the difference between saying you are a Nazi and supporting their ideology, with one not having the stigma of the holocaust.

[Felya]

Bannon is, though Trump's missing a few key components. Bannon has a long history of anti-semitism, white nationalism to the point of fanaticism, and heavily-authoritarian leanings. He's also gone on record that he wants to tear down the current establishment and preys on a scared populace to advance his agenda. These are all right out of Mussolini's playbook, to narrowly avoid a Godwin.

And the fact that he doesn't call him self a Nazi, is the exact thing that gives him the plausible deniability of supporting the same issues, and avoiding Godwin. Bannon having people defending him by saying he isn't a Nazi, is the same reason why the OP deserves the ire he gets for calling him self conservative. You choose to do it...

[Sam the Wiser]

The left exposed as a hate group?! Who would of guessed. The either you're with us or against us mentality has been raging for years now.

[primalmatter]

Which is fine. He can just be an isolationist, nationalist, who thinks there is a religious war brewing. That only highlights the difference between saying you are a Nazi and supporting their ideology, with one not having the stigma of the holocaust.

A isolate and a nationalist are not negative things. They built the bedrock of every successful nation. As for a religious war... it has been waged for decades now is there something I am missing? Gonna google him it feels like im not seeing the picture here.