1009 Maw of Souls runs needed to max out Artifact in 7.2

[omeomorfismo]

They've said that the first bosses in NH is tuned around 40-45 traits, the middle bosses around 45-50 and the last bosses to 54 traits.

I'm not gonna sit and dig up the quote, but instead you are very welcome to find any guild that has killed Star Augur, Elisande or Gul'dan at less than 54 traits

sure, but these traits are for WF guilds, all other reach these boss with more IL than exorsus/serenity/method :|....

[MasterHamster]

And I remember when people were absolutely shitting themselves over the amount of AP to get 3 golden traits. Or going apeshit over the 4th trait for dat mandatory to be competitive 5%, during a time where a decent item upgrade in any slot probably increased your dps/hps by that amount alone.

But hey, if you want to abuse yourself and reduce your gameplay to endlessly running the same mythic over and over, for 1% output increase now and then, knock yourself out. Sadly very few game systems, expect boring hardcaps, can stop players from ruining their own experience. AP is technically uncapped because the whole artifact system is supposed to be personal. If you're not playing much, you'll get back and get a new trait just for a few WQs... or you're the Mythic raider that apparently can't sleep at night unless he is #1 in his roster on Artifact progression, and think he'll be benched if he's not in the 99.99th percentile of worldwide AP farmed.

You get the same amount of AP you invested in Paragon points as a headstart when the new traits are released. Since you can only put so many points into it anway, you aren't really enjoying an advantage anyway - but let's assume there is someone who doesn't have his weapon at max rank yet, and has only put in his 35th 1 week before 7.2, and let's assume you are somehow and for some reason scared losing to him. He'll have about... what is it? 60 million?`70? less AP than you in 7.2. Thats not enough? Even with the increase AK, that's 1-2 weeks worth of a headstart. A heardstart that's only going to grow because you'll be getting AP at a much faster pace than him anyway.

Right now is the time for slower players to catch up on someone who has 54 traits. By the time 7.2 hits the difference gets smaller or is already so small that you can barely notice it.
Right now, you are that guy that complains about Raid-nerfs so other people can catch up to you... and about having to get/grind a new and higher itemlevel once the new raid hits. Yet, at the same time, you ask for character progression?

Weird.
I fail to understand the reason why this AP thing is bad.

You invest a lot of effort and time right now -> you get an advantage over players that do not, your character is/gets stronger up to a certain point/ceiling.
When people catch up to you, it means that they invested just as much effort as you, but over a different and longer span of time. Thus they get to enjoy the same benefits, only much later - as they should.
It should help to realize that if it isn't done this way, you have the same problem as in Classic, BC, WotLK and so on, where guilds were having problems to fill their lines (whenver someone stopped playing) due to the sheer amount of difference in power and DPS.

See, the problem with this argument is that you assume that these people are able to put things into perspective. Even as they progressed just fine, they sat and thought that they weren't properly *competitive* without 2 BiS legendaries and 54 traits the moment NH opened. And I can guarantee they'd be among the ones to complain if there was no system to make them stand out from the plebs.

But as I've said before... grinds and 'chores' are easy to complain about until they're gone (see MoP to WoD transition), and people run out of character progression. Blizzard adding even more traits is not to make you farm another thousand MoS', it's to keep players pretty much always have something to work towards.

[Eleccybubb]

Personally I think the only decent idea as someone said earlier is to jack the AP sources up to crazy amounts and put in a weekly cap.

[Violetti]

Personally I think the only decent idea as someone said earlier is to jack the AP sources up to crazy amounts and put in a weekly cap.

Or just open up 1 paragonpoint per week(serverwide), but you can farm as much AP as you want to have enough for multiple weeks or multiple specs

[Flurryfang]

I really love that it takes so much AP Means that i am going to have something to build towards for a long time and i will always become a little stronger. I am a big fan of the entire artifact system, because for the first time in WoW histiory, i have ALWAYS something to build towards. There is always a good reason for me to do content in the game, because even if i won't get something that i really need, i will always get AP.

I think some people have a problem with not being able to max things out, but at that point it is not really a problem with the game but the player. It is hard for Blizzard to make a good "endless" feature that can satisfy the casual and semi-hardcore playerbase, when there are people playing who would never accept such a feature, no matter if it is well made or badly made.

If you, as a player, feels like you are forced to grind AP all day to feel worthy in raiding, then you should proberly tone down your hardcore-ness because then you are heading into unhealthy areas. Putting a weekly cap on AP will just ruin the endless experience and make players who play in intervals feel punished.

- - - Updated - - -

Or just open up 1 paragonpoint per week(serverwide), but you can farm as much AP as you want to have enough for multiple weeks or multiple specs

So a delayed reward? While the top might be happy about this, it will proberly piss some people off who feel like they are not getting the reward which they worked for.

[Deleted]

If they were so great, why aren't you playing them?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say he's not Korean.

[ItsTiddles]

People with currently maxed out artifact weapons are forced to do 17 less runs.

Just to clarify, this assumes that you literally don't do anything prior to getting AK 40? So if you're at 54 right now, but you literally don't queue anything, kill anything, or basically log in other than to put in AK, it'll take 992 Maw runs? I can imagine it would be a lessened quite a bit if you could add in the the AP from raids, 5-mans (regular and m+), world quests, mission table, and all things PvP. But then again, I guess some people could do nothing until they hit AK 40 and farm all those Maws if that's what they'd like.

[Eleccybubb]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say he's not Korean.

I still play them. I just have trouble devoting as much time to them recently because of work. Everyday I'm typing up memos, financial statements and god knows what.

[Cwimge]

Remember when wow had end points?

when it was possible to have the best weapon for your spec?

when you could obtain the best piece of gear for a given slot?

when luck didn't factor into almost every aspect of play?

I am not looking forward to another 2 months of feeling hobbled because I'm no longer at max ak. The insane ramp up in ap costs means that the hundreds of thousands of ap you can get now is going to mean next to nothing once we're staring down the barrel of 20 more ranks

[wrathblade]

Remember when wow had end points?

when it was possible to have the best weapon for your spec?

when you could obtain the best piece of gear for a given slot?

when luck didn't factor into almost every aspect of play?

I am not looking forward to another 2 months of feeling hobbled because I'm no longer at max ak. The insane ramp up in ap costs means that the hundreds of thousands of ap you can get now is going to mean next to nothing once we're staring down the barrel of 20 more ranks

Kinda a relief for me.
It will get easyer with time.

and then your at max AK again and even playing only 1 character you slowly... grind your way to having a maxed out artifact because blizzard is so dumb to put another F ING paragon point pool at the bloody end -.-

i'm raiding heroic atm. have 52 traits but god damm it's taking a bloody while!
please for the love of god remove the damm paragon points and balance everything without them!
give ppl a chance to get there OS weapons some love.

Meanwhile please give a damm solution to the legendaries and it's cockblock against offspecs.
( don't ya dare switch specs for a possible tanking trinket! might have a legendary drop! )
i'll be happy when we can exchange our legendaries at a vendor. theres no other damm way!

[Cwimge]

I'm still waiting for the "why that's a bad thing" part of your explanation.

Yes, I remember it. I also remember unsubbing shortly after cause there was no longer a point to playing after BiS. 'End Points' of an MMO are 'Unsub Points'. If you WANT to unsub, just do it. I'd prefer there always be more gameplay.

With that said, I'd also scrap the warforged/titanforged system entirely. That's going a little far in the RNG territory, where AP is small upgrades that you earn consistently.

If you unsub once you've reached a point that's your problem. I enjoy fucking around with alts and dislike the very real "you're wasting time" mentality that legion and ap grinding introduces. Every quest, every dungeon, every point of artefact power I obtain on an alt is one I should be getting on my raid main. Also, and this may shock you but I have much more fun being at an end point then working toward it.

Levelling is a chore because your weapon is so limited, raiding is severely diluted because of the warforging system, where there's a one in a thousand change you will get the active best version of any given drop. At 54 traits I can at least take pride in the fact that I'm there, the work is over and I can enjoy what I've done. 7.2 guts and resets that.

it may not be a bad thing to you. But for me it is crushing, even moreso since we can assume that 7.3 will reset the board yet again

[Deleted]

I can't wait for the next xpac where hopefully this whole system is scrapped. Give us back classic wow. No more korean mmo design please.

[Deleted]

Oh the tears of the wanabes. So delicious!

Wanna be caped day 1 of 7.2? Oh surprise you can't! Because AP is a system to make your char better ALONG ALL THE EXPANSION. 99% of the criers don't even need that, they are not in top guilds competing for FK and raid spots. The other 1% who really need that will have to handle it. To be the best you must put time in what you do. And it is better to screw a very few than have literally millions of players with no reason to play the game at all.

[Lolsteak]

Well again you don't have to do those 1000 dungeon runs when there are plenty of sources to obtain AP.

The other sources are less efficient and would take longer, Completely irrelevant.

[Deleted]

I personally don't mind grinding AP, the problem I have is with how the availability there is.

Raids don't give enough AP need to be guaranteed drops and be substantial drops so it's a worthy and limited alternative compared to mythic +.

PvP doesn't give enough AP for the effort it takes to win a BG and being at the complete mercy of your team.

WQs need to get their AP doubled but their amount of quests limited, instead of 10 quests with 50k ap, make it 5 with 100k ap.

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If they can make it so there's alternatives even if they are limited themselves to mythic +, it's going to be a good change, variation is good.

[Kallisto]

Remember when wow had end points?

when it was possible to have the best weapon for your spec?

when you could obtain the best piece of gear for a given slot?

when luck didn't factor into almost every aspect of play?

I am not looking forward to another 2 months of feeling hobbled because I'm no longer at max ak. The insane ramp up in ap costs means that the hundreds of thousands of ap you can get now is going to mean next to nothing once we're staring down the barrel of 20 more ranks

Yes and I remember the forums during this time screaming for ways to continue to become more powerful without an end point at this time.

[Kithelle]

75 days to get to Ak 40.

Legion is a big fat fucking failure.

I miss WoD.

They don't farm if you don't like the grind? If you want to play bar none thee worst wow expansion because this one has a long grind which is still in testing and hopefully subject to change...then I'm sure you wont be missed.

[Multistryke]

Could make it more exciting and do 1009 HoV runs.

hahaha imagine that.

[Raugnaut]

people wont be running 6-9 in 7.2 they will be running 14-16 like they are running 6-9 (possibly even higher 16-19 perhaps). the amount of ap from that will be much higher than it is now

Keep in mind that Mythic difficulty is being buffed by, what was it, 30% or so? 6-9 then will be 12-14 now.

[Bombercloner]

You are forgetting that the are re-tuning the difficulty and also very likely the base amount of AP each dungeon level gives. where at ak 25 i might get 300k ap for a maw 12, I might get 600k for the same dungeon at ak 25 once the instance is re-tuned.