Filling jobs more difficult post Brexit as Eastern Europeans leave UK

[Kallisto]

The thing is this is just bullshit, especially regarding the UK. You have openly right-wing parties in mainland Europe headed up by the likes of Gert Wilders and Marine Le pen gathering the kind of support that UKIP could only dream of, in fact the make UKIP look like a bunch of lefty tossers.

In fact, contrary to what many believe the link below shows the majority of the EU is in favour of Trump-like policies.

https://infogr.am/63af14ef-8711-4002-b384-e6058ce56643

I don't think there really is much difference between UKIP and Gert in the amount of support their parties get in their respective countries. The difference is the way elections are done in UK and Netherlands. UKIP had a decent % of support but was spread all over the country, which hurt them. In Netherlands and areas in which PR happens that problem does not exist and is shown more in the parliament.

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And the next year after that?
Assuming no immigrants labour once again, I imagine it would go something like "The owners realized their company wont stay open if they don't get their product off the field, so they raised wages and people started working there."
Perhaps they would also try raising the price of their product to compensate, but then they run the risk of people not buying it.
Or maybe they'd look into automation or how to increase efficiency.

Regardless, the answer won't be "let them rot" two years in a row. Because if it is, that company will close.

No it becomes pay them proper wages and up the prices which in turn means people at the stores don't buy said fruit and the fruit rots in the bins after the stores discard them. We live in a time where certain produce to be affordable has to come from automation or cheap labour because the businesses outright refuse to turn a £1billion profit into a £999,000,000 profit. Because that's the opposite of what a business should be doing.

[Omega10]

And the next year after that?
Assuming no immigrants labour once again, I imagine it would go something like "The owners realized their company wont stay open if they don't get their product off the field, so they raised wages and people started working there."
Perhaps they would also try raising the price of their product to compensate, but then they run the risk of people not buying it.
Or maybe they'd look into automation or how to increase efficiency.

Regardless, the answer won't be "let them rot" two years in a row. Because if it is, that company will close.

They put in loopholes to bring back immigrants. I wish the answer would have been either one of your proposed solutions, or something similar. Actually, I don't mind so much that it is immigrants doing the work. What bothers me is their wages are so low. And even with the low wages, wage theft and other mechanisms are used to completely minimize how much money they get for their work.

There are similar stories coming out of some of the factories in the US - the kinds of jobs we are fighting to keep. Wages are low, conditions are deplorable, and if you get injured, you either work through the pain or lose your job to someone else who wants the job more.

[Natylyaz]

What? You mean supply has gone down, forcing employers to raise wages to higher citizens! I say that's simply outrageous! Totally insufferable! How dare businesses be denied cheap foreign labor!

I've been working in London for over a year now, I am French.
The company I work for had spent ages trying to find someone before I arrived, with no success, I am a software developer.
I might go back home eventually because of this stupid mess, so please enlighten how Brexit would help my current English company in any way?

We are now looking for 2 more developers, and guess what? People from the continent are less willing to come and work in London!
There are not enough English C++ or Perl developers right now, you can delude yourself by thinking it's a training problem, but it would take years for this to be effective.

[Rockyreg]

I don't think there really is much difference between UKIP and Gert in the amount of support their parties get in their respective countries. The difference is the way elections are done in UK and Netherlands. UKIP had a decent % of support but was spread all over the country, which hurt them. In Netherlands and areas in which PR happens that problem does not exist and is shown more in the parliament.

I was simply talking about vote share as a percentage. Wilders' PVV is currently polling around 20% of the vote share and as there are so many parties his party is on course to get the biggest share of the vote and you see the same in France with Le Pen looking likely to increase her vote share.

Whether or not they actually win, this is changing politics in their respective countries. Its making the establishment announce more right-wing policies to try and counter this rise which you even see in Germany too.

Anyway this gets far from my original point that the UK is now labelled racist and xenophobic when I think that this is far from the truth.

[Rudkobing]

Post Brexit vote duh. You really gonna play semantics mate.

He might be, mate.

[Natylyaz]

I was simply talking about vote share as a percentage. Wilders' PVV is currently polling around 20% of the vote share and as there are so many parties his party is on course to get the biggest share of the vote and you see the same in France with Le Pen looking likely to increase her vote share.

Whether or not they actually win, this is changing politics in their respective countries. Its making the establishment announce more right-wing policies to try and counter this rise which you even see in Germany too.

Anyway this gets far from my original point that the UK is now labelled racist and xenophobic when I think that this is far from the truth.

Indeed it's far from the truth, there are also a lot of people who have no idea of democracy works in the Europe Union, and that the laws are not dictated but voted by an elected Parliament.

[stabetha]

Oh look more "progressives" showing they only care about workers rights when it fits their agenda. What's next, are you going to show us how you only care about minorities when it can get you votes too?

[Rockyreg]

I've been working in London for over a year now, I am French.
The company I work for had spent ages trying to find someone before I arrived, with no success, I am a software developer.
I might go back home eventually because of this stupid mess, so please enlighten how Brexit would help my current English company in any way?

We are now looking for 2 more developers, and guess what? People from the continent are less willing to come and work in London!
There are not enough English C++ or Perl developers right now, you can delude yourself by thinking it's a training problem, but it would take years for this to be effective.

For many though and myself included this is the entire point. I've got nothing against immigration, we need it but it needs to be more controlled. For too many years our governments have gone for the quick fix of importing labour to meet skills shortages rather than invest in the futures of its own people. For many years since I left school almost 20 years ago people have been 'guided' to go to university to try to meet the Labour Party's crazy target of getting 50% of people to University. This was to the detriment of many other trades where we now see shortages but have an abundance of graduates many of which with the same generic degrees up to their eyeballs in debt and finding the job market very competitive.

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Indeed it's far from the truth, there are also a lot of people who have no idea of democracy works in the Europe Union, and that the laws are not dictated but voted by an elected Parliament.

People say its not democratic because its a different kind of Democracy that which they are used to in the UK. I think they find it hard to grapple with the fact its the commission (not the parliament or member states) that ultimately creates policy. The Parliament pretty much only has the power to say whether the agree/disagree with the policy created.

[Natylyaz]

For many though and myself included this is the entire point. I've got nothing against immigration, we need it but it needs to be more controlled. For too many years our governments have gone for the quick fix of importing labour to meet skills shortages rather than invest in the futures of its own people. For many years since I left school almost 20 years ago people have been 'guided' to go to university to try to meet the Labour Party's crazy target of getting 50% of people to University. This was to the detriment of many other trades where we now see shortages but have an abundance of graduates many of which with the same generic degrees up to their eyeballs in debt and finding the job market very competitive.

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People say its not democratic because its a different kind of Democracy that which they are used to in the UK. I think they find it hard to grapple with the fact its the commission (not the parliament or member states) that ultimately creates policy. The Parliament pretty much only has the power to say whether the agree/disagree with the policy created.

1) Labour sent people to the university en masse but you complain they didn't invest in their future? I'm not sure I follow here.

2) The European Commission has its head member elected by the elected Parliament. The other members are chosen by the Council of the EU, which is composed of ministers from the states, which are either directly elected or chosen by an elected parliament. So at every level, they originate from the vote of the people.
State governments are similar, they are not directly elected by the people in the UK (eg Theresa May).
Finally, the European Parliament is the ultimate vote over other bodies in the UE.
And this is definitely not what I have read from pro-Brexit people, who claim Europe is governed by non-elected bodies. The UK is also governed by a non-elected body (Theresa's government).

[Crispin]

enjoy cleaning hotel rooms Brits, I'm sure it's the jobs you've all had your eyes on for years!

[Natylyaz]

enjoy cleaning hotel rooms Brits, I'm sure it's the jobs you've all had your eyes on for years!

The irony is that these "shitty" jobs are usually done by non-EU migrants, which they already control, so it won't help the Brits without qualification.

[Rockyreg]

1) Labour sent people to the university en masse but you complain they didn't invest in their future? I'm not sure I follow here.

2) The European Commission has its head member elected by the elected Parliament. The other members are chosen by the Council of the EU, which is composed of ministers from the states, which are either directly elected or chosen by an elected parliament. So at every level, they originate from the vote of the people.
State governments are similar, they are not directly elected by the people in the UK (eg Theresa May).
Finally, the European Parliament is the ultimate vote over other bodies in the UE.
And this is definitely not what I have read from pro-Brexit people, who claim Europe is governed by non-elected bodies. The UK is also governed by a non-elected body (Theresa's government).

1). My point is they are investing in one type of future to the detriment of many other possibilities. I was actively pushed by my school to go to University purely because I was above average academically. After 3 months I realised it wasn't what I wanted to do and left to pursue a more vocational type of learning and still 15 years on not many of my peers (from school) that graduated are earning as much money as I do (I also have far less debt I might add). I was lucky to realise soon enough that I was on the wrong track but many are not that lucky and this is only anecdotal but many of my friends now regret going to University.

2) The Parliament has the ultimate vote but it does not get to choose policy in which it must then vote on so I feel they do not hold the ultimate power. In the UK we vote for a party not a person so to say Theresa's government in non-elected in not true.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

It is the same laugh I get here in the States when I hear them wanting to toss all the illegal Mexicans out. Sure these people do take a lot of jobs but it doesn't seem like a whole lot of US citizens want to lay pavement for minimal wage or pick apples in the heat all day for the same minimal wage (and I use minimal wage lightly because most of them make less than that amazing how you can do that when you don't have to report anything).

[Natylyaz]

1). My point is they are investing in one type of future to the detriment of many other possibilities. I was actively pushed by my school to go to University purely because I was above average academically. After 3 months I realised it wasn't what I wanted to do and left to pursue a more vocational type of learning and still 15 years on not many of my peers (from school) that graduated are earning as much money as I do (I also have far less debt I might add). I was lucky to realise soon enough that I was on the wrong track but many are not that lucky and this is only anecdotal but many of my friends now regret going to University.

2) The Parliament has the ultimate vote but it does not get to choose policy in which it must then vote on so I feel they do not hold the ultimate power. In the UK we vote for a party not a person so to say Theresa's government in non-elected in not true.

About point 2, I say that Theresa is not directly elected by the people, the same way the European Commission is not directly elected by the people (via electing EU MP or local MP), but they both originate from the vote of the people.

[Rockyreg]

enjoy cleaning hotel rooms Brits, I'm sure it's the jobs you've all had your eyes on for years!

I know somebody who used to clean hotel rooms around 5 years ago. They were paid £9.5 per hour and yet the hotel is still in business. How is this possible?

[KyrtF]

Regardless, the answer won't be "let them rot" two years in a row. Because if it is, that company will close.

Then they'll close because the UK public won't buy fruit and veg at the prices they'll need to charge.

[Crispin]

I know somebody who used to clean hotel rooms around 5 years ago. They were paid £9.5 per hour and yet the hotel is still in business. How is this possible?

Am I implying that the Hotels would have to close?

[Paula Deen]

WTF WHY ARENT ALL THESE UNGRATEFUL POOR UK CITIZENS WORKING FOR LESS THAN 8 US DOLLARS A DAY TO MANAGE MY SERVER THE BALLS WTF!!!111!!! - Companies all over the country probably.

[Natylyaz]

wtf why arent all these ungrateful poor uk citizens working for less than 8 us dollars a day to manage my server the balls wtf!!!111!!! - companies all over the country probably.

WTFF why aren't all these uk citizens coding in c++ and rendering 3d objects to fill the positions which have been vacant for months!!!11!!1!

[Paula Deen]

wtf why aren't all these uk citizens coding in c++ and rendering 3d objects to fill the positions which have been vacant for months!!!11!!1!

Its the same in the US though. Seriously. These morons who run these companies actually think people who know these kinds of things are going to work for 40k a year. 35k a year. I even applied for one that was going for 25,000 a year. 25 fucking thousand dollars. I was getting paid more than that without a college education.