Coming out as a conservative - How polarization push moderates to take a stand.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

Sorry, misquote. I read your entire link and know about social dynamics, your link doesn't provide support for you original supposition. It provides evidence for other points your could make, but it doesn't help with your original point. Care to try again?

Then you should reconsider visiting relationships dynamics, group culture, marginals and cultural groupthink

[Macaquerie]

It's a good thing we don't use 7th century standards anymore. I'd hate having leeches applied for simple maladies.

The point is that no religious movement starts off being right wing, the new ideology is always developed with an eye to reform some kind of broken status quo or whatever.

And in any event, political Islam has little to do with the religious doctrine and is really a 20th century response to imperialism. The actual Islamic element is just a veneer, the ideological force behind it is more similar to anti-Western movements you might find across Asia or Africa, most of which would probably be classed as far left.

[Deleted]

Islam is not a political ideology. If you are talking about Sharia law, then it is a totalitarian wing. Any theocracy is totalitarian in its nature.

Islam is a political ideology as well as a religion. Most of islam is political, not religious.

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The point is that no religious movement starts off being right wing, the new ideology is always developed with an eye to reform some kind of broken status quo or whatever.

And in any event, political Islam has little to do with the religious doctrine and is really a 20th century response to imperialism. The actual Islamic element is just a veneer, the ideological force behind it is more similar to anti-Western movements you might find across Asia or Africa, most of which would probably be classed as far left.

No, it isn't. You can't explain the conflict with muslims in thailand or philippines with anti-western movements. They're not western countries. Burma has turned against muslims, thailand is turning against muslims and it's likely philippines will too, due to them attacking their societies.

[downnola]

The point is that no religious movement starts off being right wing, the new ideology is always developed with an eye to reform some kind of broken status quo or whatever.

And in any event, political Islam has little to do with the religious doctrine and is really a 20th century response to imperialism. The actual Islamic element is just a veneer, the ideological force behind it is more similar to anti-Western movements you might find across Asia or Africa, most of which would probably be classed as far left.

Saying political Islam has nothing to do with religious doctrine is wildly off-base. ISIS's doctrine may have nothing to do with the Islam that the vast majority of Muslims practice today, but Salafist-Jihadism is entirely based on an ultra-conservative interpretation of the Quran. Sure, jihadists mention anti-imperialism if you follow the ideology back to Osama Bin Laden, but you'll also notice some rabble about Jewish globalist conspiracies, cultural degeneracy, takfir, and an assortment of other horse shit. Groups like ISIS are the definition of far-right reactionary movements. They're extremely conservative and advocate for real imperialism based on a plausible interpretation of religious scripture. Nothing about their movement is left-wing; they simply take advantage of useful idiots on the left who throw a smoke screen over their intentions.

A distinction should be made between Jihadism, Islamism, and Islam. Attempts to whitewash jihadism just gives the alt-right and jihadis more fuel to burn the world to the ground.

There used to be a legitimate center left/right criticism of this whitewashing until the pepe trolls hijacked the dialog to use it as a weapon against western Muslims and "sjw cucks." Let's not make the problem worse, please.

[Glorious Leader]

Saying political Islam has nothing to do with religious doctrine is wildly off-base. ISIS's doctrine may have nothing to do with the Islam that the vast majority of Muslims practice today, but Salafist-Jihadism is entirely based on an ultra-conservative interpretation of the Quran. Sure, jihadists mention imperialism and the desire to bring the Caliphate back to the middle east if you follow the ideology back to Osama Bin Laden, but you'll also notice some rabble about Jewish globalist conspiracies, cultural degeneracy, takfir, and an assortment of other horse shit. Groups like ISIS are the definition of far-right reactionary movements. They're extremely conservative and advocate for real imperialism based on a plausible interpretation of religious scripture. Nothing about their movement is left-wing; they simply take advantage of useful idiots on the left who throw a smoke screen over their intentions.

A distinction should be made between Jihadism, Islamism, and Islam. Attempts to whitewash jihadism just gives the alt-right and jihadis more fuel to burn the world to the ground.

There used to be a legitimate center left/right criticism of this whitewashing until the pepe trolls hijacked the dialog to use it as a weapon against western Muslims and "sjw cucks." Let's not make the problem worse, please.

Their is an excellent article in the atlantic about this very topic. I encourage anyone who is interested in having a better understanding of groups like isis to read it.


http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...-wants/384980/

The abuse of declaring takfir is one of the many distinguishing features of isis. Al qaeda and isis have actually had disputes as well since al zarkawi has refused to acknowledge the calpihate.

[Heladys]

No genuine believer in equal rights gets "driven to the right". They are all cryptofascists who found an excuse.

[downnola]

Their is an excellent article in the atlantic about this very topic. I encourage anyone who is interested in having a better understanding of groups like isis to read it.


http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...-wants/384980/

The abuse of declaring takfir is one of the many distinguishing features of isis. Al qaeda and isis have actually had disputes as well since al zarkawi has refused to acknowledge the calpihate.

Fun fact: One of the reasons Bin Laden wasn't big on takfir is a result of his mother being an Alawite. You know ISIS is bad news when Bin Laden of all fucking people can be described as "moderate."

[Glorious Leader]

Fun fact: One of the reasons Bin Laden wasn't big on takfir is a result of his mother being an Alawite. You know ISIS is bad news when Bin Laden of all fucking people can be described as "moderate."

Takfir is VERY dangerous to declare. If a man says to his brother you are an infidel then one of them is correct. Its a subtle distinction but its important because as radical as al qaeda is Isis is off the fucking wall crazy.

[Mister Cheese]

You can just be a libertarian cuck. Like me! Why pick a side when you can be a spinless coward?

[Dezerte]

I don't get it. A homosexual voting right-wing, particularly in the US, seems as contradictory as a Muslim woman voting for theocracy. If you're so thin-skinned that you can do a complete u-turn on your supposed beliefs I have to wonder if you really ever believed in them to begin with.

[Orwell7]

I don't get it. A homosexual voting right-wing, particularly in the US, seems as contradictory as a Muslim woman voting for theocracy. If you're so thin-skinned that you can do a complete u-turn on your supposed beliefs I have to wonder if you really ever believed in them to begin with.

I save this quote because it describes EXACTLY the problem with the world today.
When did being "right-wing" means it oppresses homosexuality in ANY WAY?

Words being fully "overloaded" with different meanings by different people it's getting sooo confusing.
Invent new words for (oppressing gay rights + wanting social security) or (wanting more gay rights + more rights for pedophiles), because NONE of those are either "left wing" or "right wing".
Nothing to do with it, by the exact definition!

[Gestopft]

I save this quote because it describes EXACTLY the problem with the world today.
When did being "right-wing" means it oppresses homosexuality in ANY WAY?

Words being fully "overloaded" with different meanings by different people it's getting sooo confusing.
Invent new words for (oppressing gay rights + wanting social security) or (wanting more gay rights + more rights for pedophiles), because NONE of those are either "left wing" or "right wing".
Nothing to do with it, by the exact definition!

It's mostly just the religious right, which is a significant wing, but definitely not "the Right."

But take the first part out of Dezerte's statement and you get

If you're so thin-skinned that you can do a complete u-turn on your supposed beliefs I have to wonder if you really ever believed in them to begin with.

That was sort of my response to the article: people were mean to you (the author) so you suddenly started believing different things? Did you really believe them or did you just go along as part of the group?

[Glorious Leader]

I save this quote because it describes EXACTLY the problem with the world today.
When did being "right-wing" means it oppresses homosexuality in ANY WAY?

Words being fully "overloaded" with different meanings by different people it's getting sooo confusing.
Invent new words for (oppressing gay rights + wanting social security) or (wanting more gay rights + more rights for pedophiles), because NONE of those are either "left wing" or "right wing".
Nothing to do with it, by the exact definition!

They run entire election campaigns at both the national and state level against homosexuals. Its usually veiled under euphemisms like defense of marriage.

[Ahovv]

No genuine believer in equal rights gets "driven to the right". They are all cryptofascists who found an excuse.

Calling every self-proclaimed conservative a fascist is a surefire way to never improve society. They will ignore your insults and double-down on their beliefs. It's like calling every left-winger a communist.

[Dezerte]

I save this quote because it describes EXACTLY the problem with the world today.
When did being "right-wing" means it oppresses homosexuality in ANY WAY?

It's a common theme among the more right-wing parties, and also some more moderate-right/left religious parties. That is to say not all right-wing parties have an issue with homosexuality, but that's the side on the left/right-spectrum that overwhelmingly does have an issue with it.

[Deleted]

Lets start with your last sentence. It is impossible for everyone to be equal. Everyone is not equal in Scotland, nor in the US. People are not okay with receiving a similar result as those who put in significantly less effort with significantly less skill. Classic example, why be a brain surgeon when you can flip burgers. It just isn't a real thing. And you probably don't mean it so absolutely, but even still, it is a bad idea, it hasn't even work, nor can it.

To your attack on people who support "Conservatives", I challenge you to build me a timeline of of all the Conservative policies that have destroyed peoples security, health, education, etc when faced with Liberal policies that would do the opposite, and I'm sure it will be much easier to point out your bias and your logical fallacies.

If you choose to educate yourself to a brain surgeon solely for the salary, you're not a good brain surgeon and you won't enjoy your work.
If you wanna flip burgers for the rest of your life, you lack ambition and a wish to improve and contribute more to society.

There are more things to life than capital gains.

[Barnabas]

It's a common theme among the more right-wing parties, and also some more moderate-right/left religious parties. That is to say not all right-wing parties have an issue with homosexuality, but that's the side on the left/right-spectrum that overwhelmingly does have an issue with it.

It's more of a religious thing that people judge rather then let god judge. I think it's 100% because the congregations these people attend turn them into judgmental types through sermon and then they project it.

[zenkai]

I’m a gay New Yorker — and I’m coming out as a conservative - February 11th 2017


Source: http://nypost.com/2017/02/11/im-a-ga...-conservative/

If you think Moore's story is isolated, think again. With the polarization taking wings in our society, many people are being forced to make a choice that they'd rather not have to do. This mean taking a stance against family members, friends, teachers and spheres of society where we grew up.

What's worse is that conservatives have become the new progressives -- where ideas and free speech are prioritized -- while liberals, who used to have that title, has become the group of conservative "liberal" authoritarianism. It's ironic in a sense and quite frankly I still have a hard time to grasp how such a thing is even possible.

Personally, I don't think I'll ever be able to be an integral part of the right. It's so fundamentally against my own deeply held beliefs that it's simply beyond my grasp. But I do have to say that if I have to make a choice, if I keep being pushed to make a decision, I will side with them and put my values on the side until balance has been restored.

PS: This is not a sexual orientation thread. This is a thread about how politics force people to take a stance.

EDIT: I've seen some people think that conservatism is the opposite of progressiveness. This couldn't be farther from the truth - historically, progressiveness and conservatism worked hand-in-hand. For those who'd rather take a quick glance to learn more, head on the official wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism

I am seeing more stories like this, I think the militant left is destroying the Democrat party. Hell look at these forums, if you don't 100% bash Trump all the time, people attack you, calling you names, it's rather sad.

[Shadowferal]

I am seeing more stories like this, I think the militant left is destroying the Democrat party.

pfft...you've already been thinking this..long before this article came out.

[zenkai]

pfft...you've already been thinking this..long before this article came out.

Where did I imply I didn't?