Oklahoma : Women who want an abortion face needing the father’s written consent

[Derah]

No, you are telling pregnant females you would like it if men forced them to abort or carry children to term.

You are the ultimate example of a strawman.

I never said I "Liked it" to have men force them to abort, or carry children.

I said that the choice rests on BOTH parents. I respectfully said I disagreed with your opinion, but held nothing against you for it.

In return, you responded with unwarranted personal attacks by telling me I am the same as ISIS, and should go join them. And I in turn am telling you to go fuck yourself.

[Total Crica]

I said that the choice rests on BOTH parents.

No, it doesn't, unless men force their choice on pregnant females to abort or carry children to term against their wills.

So, if you continue to say men can choose, that is the ONLY way they can choose, by forcing pregnant females to abort or carry children to term.

[chrisnumbers]

Graduate high school.
Get a job.
Get married.

This whole abortion "issue" is an issue because people aren't taking the above 3 steps. Once you take those 3 steps you don't need the state to make any decisions for you.

[Total Crica]

Graduate high school.
Get a job.
Get married.

This whole abortion "issue" is an issue because people aren't taking the above 3 steps. Once you take those 3 steps you don't need the state to make any decisions for you.

Getting married doesn't ensure a woman retains the right to choose to carry a child to term or not.

[The Penguin]

Holy flippin' strawmen.

Reality isn't your strawmen. Accidental pregnancies are NOT at all because 'she was a whore'. You just sound like you have a stick up your ass about sexually active women who don't want kids. Married or not. There are plenty of married couples who live happy and childfree. Pregnancy is inherently unfair, since it is ONLY the woman who's pregnant, the man cannot be. It's not an Ikea purchase both parents make and then put together but the woman has the screwdriver ransom and goes nuh-uh! Yes, it sucks, but you're not the one with the bodily autonomy right to decide over the fetus staying or going. She is. Find a woman who wants your kids and stop bitching about what everyone else does with their lives, and stop wanting to degrade their rights into broodmares.

Lol. It's a straw man for telling a woman "if you don't want to be a mother, keep your USB Port unplugged" the same way society tells men "if you don't want to be a father, keep your gun holstered"? Silly me! I forgot that women were fragile flowers unable to make any decisions and that all responsibilities, decisions, and consequences should fall upon the bread-winning alpha male.

/sarcasm

Truth is you don't want Gender Equality.

You want Gender superiority for women on some issues, while crying foul where the reverse applies in others.

[Halyon]

You do realise birth control can be tampered with and they can lie about being OK with aborting, right?

When you get a big chunk off a rich dude's money in the form of child support you do those things.

Men can lie about wanting to be there for the kid as well. It goes both ways and is a very poor line of argument.

[Total Crica]

Gender superiority for women

Women are not superior.

They simply are the only gender capable of carrying a child to term.

Which means they are the only gender that can choose to do so or not.

[derpkitteh]

honestly, it's wrong that the father has no say in an abortion. it's unfair and sexist, imo.

if the father's against an abortion and wants to leave the mother and raise his child with someone else, he should have the right to do that.

or, it should at least be forced to pay a very heavy compensation fee to him.

[Total Crica]

honestly, it's wrong that the father has no say in an abortion. it's unfair and sexist, imo.

if the father's against an abortion and wants to leave the mother and raise his child with someone else, he should have the right to do that.

He would have the right to do that, as soon as he is capable of carrying a child to term without forcing a woman to help him do so.

[bewbew]

You are advocating for doing something they do - forcing pregnant females to abort or carry children to term against their wills.

No, he is stating a woman that through her own actions gets pregnant has to live with the consequences without considering murder of another living human an option, because it isn't.

Freedom is responsibility, not "do everything you want and have others pay for your shameless baby killing".

Repeating "Her body, her rules" is a major misconception. If you live in a country with rules to defend human life, you don't get to do whatever you please with your body, specially when you are effectively harming others.

In fact, we have laws even against drug use, because we are a little deeper than thinking you live in a bubble and we recognize your actions, even these that apparently "only harm yourself", actually harm others.

[derpkitteh]

He would have the right to do that, as soon as he is capable of carrying a child to term without forcing a woman to help him do so.

this selfish idea that the mother is the only one effected by any of this is stupid. it's just absolutely goddamned retarded.

you're not the only one effected, you're not. if you believe you are, you're a selfish liar. it's that fucking simple.

[Total Crica]

murder of another living human

It's not murder to refuse to continue to use your body to sustain a life other then your own.

[Halyon]

Lol. It's a straw man for telling a woman "if you don't want to be a mother, keep your USB Port unplugged" the same way society tells men "if you don't want to be a father, keep your gun holstered"? Silly me! I forgot that women were fragile flowers unable to make any decisions and that all responsibilities, decisions, and consequences should fall upon the bread-winning alpha male.

/sarcasm

Truth is you don't want Gender Equality.

You want Gender superiority for women on some issues, while crying foul where the reverse applies in others.

No. Your line of argument was that women who didn't were whores, fucking everything they could. Which they abso-fuckin'-lutely ain't. That's just your opinion of them. Women can have sex, men can have sex, when they please, with whomever they please, as long as it's consentual, and it's none of your business. There's birthcontrol, which a fair deal of women use, but it isn't 100%. Regardless, a woman is still in her right to choose an abortion if she wants one, for any reason, and it's a safe and legal medical procedure.

Like it or not, sex is a normal, healthy thing for adults to partake in. It reduces stress, helps preventing stuff like depression, and if you're not just using 10 mins. on it, it's a decent to good spot of exercise as well.

None of your business, nor right to label people anything if they have regular sex, nor is it any of your business to tell them not to because you think it makes them whores.

And no. Pregnancy is by nature unfair. Removing any decision-making from the pregnant woman is removing part of her bodily autonomy. That's illegal, unconstitutional, and inhumane. The woman carries 100% of the pregnancy, she gets 100% right to choose wheather to keep it or not. When men can carry pregnancies, they can get the same rights, and nobody gets to tell them what they can and can't do with their pregnancies.

I am additionally all for allowing men a financial severence/abortion, were they also relinquish any and all parental rights and/or contact with the child when it's born, and they cannot be re-instated for any reason. He should not be hogtied to the kid, if he insists not to be, but this process must be completed before voluntary abortion has reached it's limit, in the event the woman changes her mind after this has been done. That, to me, is as fair as it gets, and violates the rights of nobody. The current system is flawed, I will grant you as much, but I will never be in favor of stripping a right from a woman were she needs approval from someone else to have a medical procedure done, and which he can use to force her to carry an unwanted pregnancy whilst suffering none of it's burdens. How exactly is this fair then, hm?

[PassingBy]

No, it doesn't, unless men force their choice on pregnant females to abort or carry children to term against their wills.

So, if you continue to say men can choose, that is the ONLY way they can choose, by forcing pregnant females to abort or carry children to term.

Sure.
While the government is telling men to pay child support for the kid no matter if they want to or not - I don't see why men should not have a say in wether the woman has an abortion or not.

Easy fix for the situation is:

- Women can have all the abortions they want, without taking into account the opinion of the father even if they are married.
- Men can decide to abort their parental rights and not be eligible for paying any child support no matter if they were married and who the father of the child is.

Then everyone will be on even terms.

Currently the government forces the man to pay child support. If you are married - they won't even ask if you agree wether the child is yours or not.
Hell if you prove it is not yours - the court may still make you pay child support for the "well being of the child".

If the decision on whether you have a baby or not is taken solely by the woman without taking into consideration the opinion of the man he should have an option to opt out of that fucked up deal.

Easy as that.

Woman chooses if she wants to carry the baby and be a mother or not.
Man chooses if he wants to be the father and support the child.

In the end the woman will still have more choice since the decision to have the baby is still on her, but at least the man will have an option to not have the child that he doesn't want.

[Total Crica]

the mother is the only one effected

A pregnant female is the only one with the choice to continue to use her body to sustain life other then her own or not, correct.

- - - Updated - - -

the government is telling men

Then men can take it up with the government.

An individual woman has nothing to do with that issue.

[Anevers]

this selfish idea that the mother is the only one effected by any of this is stupid. it's just absolutely goddamned retarded.

you're not the only one effected, you're not. if you believe you are, you're a selfish liar. it's that fucking simple.

The majority of the burden of carrying a child is hers alone though. If the burden was somehow equal then it would be up for serious debate. The burden is not equal, it is her body being used, it is her life, and health at stake during a pregnancy.

[derpkitteh]

She is the only one with the choice to continue to use her body to sustain life or not, correct.

you people are legitimately pathetic. truly.

complete sexist idiots.

[Halyon]

honestly, it's wrong that the father has no say in an abortion. it's unfair and sexist, imo.

if the father's against an abortion and wants to leave the mother and raise his child with someone else, he should have the right to do that.

or, it should at least be forced to pay a very heavy compensation fee to him.

What for, bruised feelings? He should find a woman who wants his kids, instead of forcing another to be a broodmare. You realize that aside from the potential, and potentially permanent, physical damage it can cause, there is mental damage as well from being held captive in her state for 9 months, slowly becoming more and more encumbered, racking up medical bills, change of lifestyle, having to buy maternity clothes to fit in, nevermind that her working life is going to be disrupted. Who is going to pay those costs for her if the man wants the kid so badly?

When men can carry pregnancies themselves, they can have the exact same rights, no questions asked. Until then, they do not ever get to violate the right of another person, and force them to be in a cattle-status for close to a year against their will.

[Eldrad]

He didn't, You just don't have a counter argument.

The male should not be able to force a female to give birth, The female should not be able to force the male to be part of the baby's life. That is how you make it equal, If he wants the child and she doesn't then he should find another woman who wants to have his kid.

Wrong.

In a non-rape scenario, here is what happened - Two people consented to have sex with each other. One or both of them screwed up and didn't use protection and a baby is created.
If both of these people don't want the baby, then it could be aborted. (although really that's murder)

If one of these people wants the baby and the other doesn't, then the baby can be kept.
If one of these people wants the baby and the other doesn't, then the baby can't be kept.
How can the same thing end in two different results? Because the woman's wants out weighs the man's, that's how, and that's not right.
And this is all because the woman is the one to carry the baby?
It's not man's fault that human biology dictates that the female is the sex that gets pregnant.
If the man TRULY wants the baby, then the female should have to carry it, and the man pay for ALL the costs and then he can be the parent. That's FAIR.

Basically women need to learn this simple fact - Abortion is not a get out of jail card. You can't screw willy nilly and then just murder your unborn child so you don't have to deal with being a mother.
**If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.**
If you are the woman, and you don't want to be pregnant, then either A) DON'T have sex, or B) Make sure a contraceptive is being used.

[Halyon]

- Women can have all the abortions they want, without taking into account the opinion of the father even if they are married.
- Men can decide to abort their parental rights and not be eligible for paying any child support no matter if they were married and who the father of the child is.

Then everyone will be on even terms.

I would agree to this, sure. With the right framework this is the best solution to an inherently unfair situation.