Legion Theorycrafting [7.3, All specs]

[Deleted]

Been wondering one thing, I run the simulation with all the specs and I get always on top

BM_WOTC_CS_BF_AMOC_KC 542,287

Was just wondering where the Chimaera Shot comes there as its not on any guide.

[bazzzyl]

Here are my Simcrafts (Patchwerk, 10000 interations) comparing DF and Stomp in pure st fight.
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Motaro/simple

1. DF, belt + boots, talents=3212112.
DPS = 740064

2. Stomp, belt + boots, talents=2112112.
DPS = 728572

[lichbane]

I dont have the mantle but I sure used bloodlust on all my testings and dire frenzy was behind by a huge margin. Further procs of dire frenzy do not stack while dire beast does.

You need the mantle for DF to be of real benefit as to work properly you get the DF buff to stack up to 3 times. Then with the 2 set, your pet gets 10% bonus damage during BW and drops the cooldown of BW with the 4 set bonus.

[sultangurde]

Here are my Simcrafts (Patchwerk, 10000 interations) comparing DF and Stomp in pure st fight.
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Motaro/simple

1. DF, belt + boots, talents=3212112
DPS = 740064

2. Stomp, belt + boots, talents=2112112
DPS = 728572

Could You check again?

After new sim version (13.02 release) my stomp simulations dropped from 698k to 675k and Dire Frenzy is still 710k

[Sabinn]

Here are my Simcrafts (Patchwerk, 10000 interations) comparing DF and Stomp in pure st fight.
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Motaro/simple

1. DF, belt + boots, talents=3212112
DPS = 740064

2. Stomp, belt + boots, talents=2112112
DPS = 728572

Do a 2212112 as well.

[Deleted]

The fact the pet needs to be hugging the target for DF to work is too much of a turn-off on anything but a patchwork fight. Even with KC acting as a gap closer. We're already all but a melee class except in name and DF exacerbates that.

[Sabinn]

All my simulations also saying DF should be outdpsing Stomp but I just cant make that happen in a real scenario. I wonder what am I doing wrong.

[bazzzyl]

Could You check again?

After new sim version (13.02 release) my stomp simulations dropped from 698k to 675k and Dire Frenzy is still 710k

Ok, I have updated Simcraft to 13-02-2017.
Since last test i recieved an upgrade for my 890 set pants (895 with socket).

Here are the results for Stomp vs. DF with Roar + Qa'pla

1. DF, talents=3212112
DPS = 745885

2. DF, talents=2212112
DPS = 742957

3. Stomp, talents=3112112
DPS = 712664

4. Stomp, talents=2112112
DPS = 707145


Today i was fortunate and Mantle dropped
Here are the results for Stomp vs. DF with Roar + Mantle

1. DF, talents=2212112
DPS = 748890

2. DF, talents=3212112
DPS = 744733

3. Stomp, talents=2112112
DPS = 721935

4. Stomp, talents=3112112
DPS = 720089

As you can see DF goes ahead of Stomp by quite a number.
Also with mantle you wan to go with WotC perchaps if youre not strugling for focus.

The biggest problem with DF is (as mentioned earlier) that beast have to be really close to use it.

====================

Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Motaro/simple
WoWProgress: https://www.wowprogress.com/characte...nt-dawn/Motaro
WarcraftLogs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...287819/latest/

[Deleted]

I personally don't find it that substantial. It goes on the range of 20-25k DPS. Out of 720k it's not a particularly incisive %. Ease of use seems more important unless we are patchworking it. I did try it a bit just doing some WQs and it did not seem too bad though it lacks Stomp's burst and ranged ability which will hinder actual practical damage when KC is not there to push things. Having to use Titan's Thunder -before- DF is counter-intuitive by now, but I also noticed how Beast Cleave became noticeably faster.

That said wednesday I'll try it during raid night and compare to my usual logs.

[Hiricine]

Beastial Ferocity can now critically strike.
On the Trail can now critically strike.

to save you the trouble of googling it, Beastial Fury is the level 100 talent nobody picks that buffs kill command. Will it be usable for BM or even SV, (noteworthy, two different SV abilities buffed here).

Also of note--- Apex predator's claw makes all 3 pet talent effects of Beastial Fury proc. Great for soloing, on fights where snares are a thing it might be a huge benefit!

[bazzzyl]

Beastial Ferocity can now critically strike.
On the Trail can now critically strike.

to save you the trouble of googling it, Beastial Fury is the level 100 talent nobody picks that buffs kill command. Will it be usable for BM or even SV, (noteworthy, two different SV abilities buffed here).

Also of note--- Apex predator's claw makes all 3 pet talent effects of Beastial Fury proc. Great for soloing, on fights where snares are a thing it might be a huge benefit!

To bad Aspect of the Beast can't stack. Apex + Qa'Pal would be nice combo.

[ydraw]

AOTB was already the better talent on AOE fights since Killer Cobra doesn't do anything if you aren't casting Cobra Shot. Now it may be more competitive on single target and mixed ST/AOE fights.

edit: Just did a quick test then on a single target dummy:

2 minute fight.

Talents: DS, Stomp, BS, Volley
Legs: Kil'Jaeden's Burning Wish + Call of the Wild


With Killer Cobra: 55.6 million damage over 2 minutes.
With Aspect of The Beast: 55.8 million damage over 2 minutes.

Seems to me that AOTB will be roughly equal to KC in terms of total damage, although Killer Cobra will still be superior for burst.

AOTB is superior on multi-target fights and also makes the rotation even easier than it already was.

[Khrux]

AOTB is junk, it doesn't stack and therefore wild call procs, the legendary shoulder and the legendary boots are all counter intuitive to it. Pass

[Deleted]

You need the mantle for DF to be of real benefit as to work properly you get the DF buff to stack up to 3 times. Then with the 2 set, your pet gets 10% bonus damage during BW and drops the cooldown of BW with the 4 set bonus.

This is not reflected in my sims, and I do have the Mantle and 4set. Stomp is structurally outperforming DF for me.

From a convenience perspective, I waste a lot less Focus with Stomp as well, especially since OwtP sims the highest for my on ST.

[andreasels]

AOTB is junk, it doesn't stack and therefore wild call procs, the legendary shoulder and the legendary boots are all counter intuitive to it. Pass

Why are wild call procs and legendary shoulders counter intuitive to Aotb on their own? This only applies, if you have the legendary boots aswell. If you don't have the boots, I imagine it could be competitive, but let's wait for Sims on that.

[Aldare]

This is not reflected in my sims, and I do have the Mantle. Stomp is structurally outperforming DF for me.

From a convenience perspective, I waste a lot less Focus with Stomp as well, especially since OwtP sims the highest for my on ST.

As a mantle owner also, my sims paint the same picture. DF is not worth it if you have the Mantle of Command.

I also agree with you that the playstyle with OwtP/Stomp feels a lot smoother with Mantle. It's just too hard to spend the focus DF generates when you get back to back procs.

[ydraw]

AOTB is junk, it doesn't stack and therefore wild call procs, the legendary shoulder and the legendary boots are all counter intuitive to it. Pass

AOTB only affects kill command, so the legendary shoulders and wild call do not affect it at all. Only the boots.

[Gurg]

Beastial Ferocity can now critically strike.
On the Trail can now critically strike.

to save you the trouble of googling it, Beastial Fury is the level 100 talent nobody picks that buffs kill command. Will it be usable for BM or even SV, (noteworthy, two different SV abilities buffed here).

Also of note--- Apex predator's claw makes all 3 pet talent effects of Beastial Fury proc. Great for soloing, on fights where snares are a thing it might be a huge benefit!

Well, OtT critt component by it self is default mini buff to Survival as it wasnt critting before. Beastrial Fury is yet to be seen how it performs. Spitting Cobra and even Expert Trapper are outperform AotB, even so AotB it self doesnt fit at all optimal Survivals rotation. It could fit better if we moved to Flanking Strike build, but its yet to be seen how it will fit with set bonuses.

[Hiricine]

AOTB only affects kill command, so the legendary shoulders and wild call do not affect it at all. Only the boots.

Well it does in that you have a higher BW uptime with shoulders which buffs killer cobra.

[Deleted]

As a mantle owner also, my sims paint the same picture. DF is not worth it if you have the Mantle of Command.

I also agree with you that the playstyle with OwtP/Stomp feels a lot smoother with Mantle. It's just too hard to spend the focus DF generates when you get back to back procs.

I'm a bit disappointed at the lack of theoretical knowledge on BM+Mantle in the Hunter community. The Legendary is quite new, but it changes the stat priority significantly by favoring Crit highly and it also turns the generally accepted talent combination around as well.

While I try my best to sim and calculate everything myself, it's nice to get insights from others as well.