Page 72 of 101 FirstFirst ...
22
62
70
71
72
73
74
82
... LastLast
  1. #1421
    Quote Originally Posted by Myz View Post
    I'm a bit disappointed at the lack of theoretical knowledge on BM+Mantle in the Hunter community.
    Probably because most hunters don't have it and therefore don't really care.

    I'll care a lot more about sims featuring the mantle if I ever get it, but chances are I won't, since it's just 1 of 7 BM spec legendaries I don't have yet, and it seems that I'm getting another legendary approximately every 2 months, it's greater than 50% chance I still won't have it 6 months from now, and there's bound to be patches in that time that will change all the sims anyway.
    Last edited by ydraw; 2017-02-14 at 11:45 AM.

  2. #1422
    I have shoulder/boots and 4pc tier, from my ingame experience actually using various talent setups in mythic content I'm firmly confident that on the mostly single target fights in this tier the most optimal setup for me is;

    WotC/Stomp/OwtP/Crows/KC

    I still use Dire Stable for fights where I multishot alot - Tich/Botanist(heroic)/Skorp/Spellblade(Depends on comp's AoE)

    I don't use Frenzy because it doesn't make pet charge its target so its punishing on target swaps, its focus is generated instantly so it can be hard to use efficiently and the muscle memory of using Titan's *after* DBs is too strong.... it may be theoretically better to use Frenzy on ST but I don't see it in practice and nothing is single target in NH(Nothing!)

    For stats I've dropped some considerable haste in favour of crit. I'm at 24% crit, 12% haste and 89% mastery at the moment. I really need a Guarm/Urn to boost my mastery a bit more(using BTI/905 frond) for now.

  3. #1423
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Khrux View Post
    I have shoulder/boots and 4pc tier, from my ingame experience actually using various talent setups in mythic content I'm firmly confident that on the mostly single target fights in this tier the most optimal setup for me is;

    WotC/Stomp/OwtP/Crows/KC

    I still use Dire Stable for fights where I multishot alot - Tich/Botanist(heroic)/Skorp/Spellblade(Depends on comp's AoE)

    I don't use Frenzy because it doesn't make pet charge its target so its punishing on target swaps, its focus is generated instantly so it can be hard to use efficiently and the muscle memory of using Titan's *after* DBs is too strong.... it may be theoretically better to use Frenzy on ST but I don't see it in practice and nothing is single target in NH(Nothing!)

    For stats I've dropped some considerable haste in favour of crit. I'm at 24% crit, 12% haste and 89% mastery at the moment. I really need a Guarm/Urn to boost my mastery a bit more(using BTI/905 frond) for now.
    DF is a DPS loss in all circumstances once you have the Shoulders and especially if you pair it with OwtP. I would assume because it's impossible to avoid wasting significant amounts of focus if you're getting frequent DF resets as you get better gear (and if you focus on crit, as you should).
    With DB you can almost use it without any concerns, not having to delay your 2 charges because you want to dump some focus first before using DF, which generates focus instantly.

    Stomp is more convenient, improves your focus efficiency causing you to waste less focus compared to DF and will likely improve your DB cast count as well (compared to total DF casts), leading to higher reductions in BW cooldown.

    With Shoulders+OwtP you have to make a specific trade-off: either you delay DF at times not to waste focus, or you waste focus because you don't want to delay DF. Neither is good and can (almost) be completely avoided with Stomp.

  4. #1424
    Thankfully with Shoulders/OwtP the wild call procs are so plentiful, but you can get into some really awkward situations where you are sitting on 1 charge of DB with BW coming off cd in a few seconds and you get a new proc of wild call.

    Pre 4pc tier/mantle, the CD reduction from DBs had a reasonable cut off at around 8secs left on BW cd before using a DB would be considered a waste but now with 4pc/mantle it feels like the cut off should be higher, althought the frequency of wild call procs leads me to believe it just doesn't matter. Its a choice of sitting on 2 charges for upto X seconds waiting for BW to cooldown then dumping double DBs for max CDR or using 1 charge thus only clearing upto X seconds left on BW which completely wastes the tier bonus CDR....

    The specific example I run into almost 100% of the time is the opener, I always get 2 BWs back to back during the bloodlust pull with everything up and running then the 3rd BW is 5-6 secs from CD with 1 charge of DB and i get a second charge.... generally I'm just using the charge and going ham into my 3rd straight BW instead of sitting on 2 DBs for 6secs outside of BW.

    The only problem being I won't have the focus for the 3rd BW, but as I have the boots also, I can at least substitute cobras with DBs for KC resets. I'm not sure its worth pooling focus and waiting out BW cds naturally while camping 2 DB charges just for the sake of not wasting upto 15-20secs of CDR.
    Last edited by Khrux; 2017-02-14 at 12:38 PM.

  5. #1425
    Do you guys have updated weights for BM with Mantle?

    So far i have been using those:
    ( Pawn: 5.1.5: "Beast Mastery": Agility=16.89, Ap=16.16, CritRating=11.79, HasteRating=13.23, MasteryRating=15.10, Versatility=11.31, Dps=7.01 )

    With Mantle should i just swap haste with crit so it would go like this:
    ( Pawn: 5.1.5: "Beast Mastery": Agility=16.89, Ap=16.16, CritRating=13.23, HasteRating=11.79, MasteryRating=15.10, Versatility=11.31, Dps=7.01 )

  6. #1426
    Quote Originally Posted by bazzzyl View Post
    Do you guys have updated weights for BM with Mantle?
    ( Pawn: v1: "Hunter": Class=Hunter, Spec=BeastMastery, Agility=19.09, CritRating=17.10, HasteRating=15.29, MasteryRating=17.81, Versatility=12.33 )

    Here's what I have been using, but bear in mind that I have 4 piece and have regemmed/enchanted for crit. When I sim and plot out graphs I still get mastery and crit close, with haste spiking up to first place (even above agility) at about +100 stat gain, then back to third place immediately (I assume some kind of arbitrary breakpoint in there). Overall, all stats except vers are close.

  7. #1427
    Deleted
    DF also buff AotB by 10% on BW.

  8. #1428
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by bazzzyl View Post
    Do you guys have updated weights for BM with Mantle?

    So far i have been using those:
    ( Pawn: 5.1.5: "Beast Mastery": Agility=16.89, Ap=16.16, CritRating=11.79, HasteRating=13.23, MasteryRating=15.10, Versatility=11.31, Dps=7.01 )

    With Mantle should i just swap haste with crit so it would go like this:
    ( Pawn: 5.1.5: "Beast Mastery": Agility=16.89, Ap=16.16, CritRating=13.23, HasteRating=11.79, MasteryRating=15.10, Versatility=11.31, Dps=7.01 )
    Sim it. A basic stat weights sim based on your current gear or your BiS list is fairly easy and quick. More so because of the interplay between Mastery and Crit. At higher levels of Crit, Mastery is going to overtake it, but as a general rule below 885 and if you don't have 4piece, Crit will outweight Mastery for single target.

    If you need help, just tell us and we'll help
    Last edited by mmoc112630d291; 2017-02-14 at 04:11 PM.

  9. #1429
    Quote Originally Posted by Myz View Post
    Sim it. A basic stat weights sim based on your current gear or your BiS list is fairly easy and quick. More so because of the interplay between Mastery and Crit. At higher levels of Crit, Mastery is going to overtake it, but as a general rule below 885 and if you don't have 4piece, Crit will outweight Mastery for single target.

    If you need help, just tell us and we'll help
    My worn ilvl is 901.8, 4pc, Mantle + Roar.
    My list of stats (unbuffed):
    Crit 16.37%
    Haste 19.50%
    Mastery 86.23%
    Versatility 1.54%

    ========================================================================================== ================================

    Talents=3112112 (Stomp + BF)
    DPS = 720018
    Pawn string ( Pawn: v1: "Motaro": Class=Hunter, Spec=BeastMastery, Agility=19.68, CritRating=19.38, HasteRating=17.22, MasteryRating=17.73, Versatility=14.74 )

    ========================================================================================== ================================

    Talents=3212112 (DF + BF)
    DPS = 744979
    Pawn string ( Pawn: v1: "Motaro": Class=Hunter, Spec=BeastMastery, Agility=19.90, CritRating=18.99, HasteRating=18.25, MasteryRating=18.18, Versatility=15.03 )


    ========================================================================================== ================================

    Talents=3111112 (Stomp + OwtP)
    DPS = 710830
    Pawn string ( Pawn: v1: "Motaro": Class=Hunter, Spec=BeastMastery, Agility=19.25, CritRating=21.79, HasteRating=16.34, MasteryRating=17.45, Versatility=14.30 )

    ========================================================================================== ================================

    Talents=3211112 (DF + OwtP)
    DPS = 714493
    Pawn string ( Pawn: v1: "Motaro": Class=Hunter, Spec=BeastMastery, Agility=19.11, CritRating=19.51, HasteRating=16.22, MasteryRating=17.61, Versatility=14.84 )


    So, now with Mantle should I echnant and gem myself from mastery to crit (I already have Claw on neck)?

    ========================================================================================== ================================

    Edit. OK, so i have changed some gear and stats and this is what i came up with so far.

    My worn ilvl is 900.87, 4pc, Mantle + Roar.
    My list of stats (unbuffed):
    Crit 28.89%
    Haste 13.59%
    Mastery 71.81%
    Versatility 0.58%

    Talents=3111112 (Stomp + OwtP)
    DPS = 725553

  10. #1430
    Is there such a thing as too low haste with Mantle? By focusing gear with crit+mast i'm now left with 8% only lol.

  11. #1431
    Not sure if the sims updated yet, but tried AOTB with some really crappy results on most fights... like unexpectedly low even based on the old sims.

  12. #1432
    Deleted
    I did my best 9min dummy test so far with 2112113
    http://www.wowhead.com/talent-calc/h...t-mastery/cNNc

    edit: tactic here is to spam cobra after getting DB off as it buffs cobra. Sometimes you get 2 out same time during BW and it does great dps. I don't avoid using KC naturally, but I won't keep my focus at 70%+ but constantly use all I get.

    On AoE I would prolly use 3113133
    http://www.wowhead.com/talent-calc/h...t-mastery/cA3c

    I've tried many builds but that one was best on one target. I don't so much rely on sims, although I do those too, as my last result highest dps to patchwerk had Chimaera Shot on recommended talents. If you pull 9min dummy fight it evens up the lucky crit streaks too.

    Have to test these tomorrow at NH raid.
    Last edited by mmoc3a8cdab3c7; 2017-02-15 at 08:23 AM.

  13. #1433
    I have been testing various combinations of KC/AotB, DF/BS, Stomp/WotC, etc. in pushing high mythic+ keys. I do have some thoughts on this, but I wanted to get some internal testing done and then look into the Simcraft hunter module with more focus (maybe this weekend). Has anyone validated the AotB interactions specifically in the Simcraft module? How confident are we in the implementation of BM talents right now?

    If you look at the warcraftlogs breakdowns of top BM hunters, the more traditional builds favoring KC/DF are still mostly on top. Legendary shoulders obviously change a lot, and I've unfortunately not been lucky to get those yet, so I can't really validate what the sims are showing on live. So, I'm tracking what you guys are saying, and I do plan on rerunning sims. I'm just cautiously optimistic about the module's state right now, and I know that the DF/KC builds are still very effective (and seem to have less variability in moving averages for stat weights/contributions in comparison to things like OwtP and possibly AotB).

  14. #1434
    I'm using 2P + mantle + prydaz currently and switched to OwtP over the last days. I also swithed some gear from mastery/haste to crit/mastery. I started with 25% crit/11K mastery and got 33% Crit/10K mastery combined with OwtP for an DPS gain of nearly 40K (6%) on single target.

    Simcraft told me that Crit beats Agility/Mastery/Haste until 38% Crit and than Crit/Mastery/Haste are almost equal slightly behind Agility. I verified this on the target dummy and over several M+ and an NH heroic clear. The ST gain was consistent on all ST fights and the cleave fights with focus target gained an shift to the focus target.

    I think I will see anonther shift to Crit if I get the 4P bonus.

  15. #1435
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Shareel View Post
    I'm using 2P + mantle + prydaz currently and switched to OwtP over the last days. I also swithed some gear from mastery/haste to crit/mastery. I started with 25% crit/11K mastery and got 33% Crit/10K mastery combined with OwtP for an DPS gain of nearly 40K (6%) on single target.

    Simcraft told me that Crit beats Agility/Mastery/Haste until 38% Crit and than Crit/Mastery/Haste are almost equal slightly behind Agility. I verified this on the target dummy and over several M+ and an NH heroic clear. The ST gain was consistent on all ST fights and the cleave fights with focus target gained an shift to the focus target.

    I think I will see anonther shift to Crit if I get the 4P bonus.
    Simcraft started devaluing Crit once I got the 4p, which makes sense as well from a gameplay perspective. Frequent DB are good to optimize BW, but there are times when my BW has reset when I still have 4-6 seconds left on the previous one and I'm back at 2 stacks of DB.
    I'll have a look at our latest mythic logs, but my waiting time has severely dropped once I got the 4p with Shoulders/Belt.

    It fixes the spec though, mainly by making BW a reliable damage cooldown due to the higher uptime.

  16. #1436
    So finally got an 890 Guarm last night(mastery) and already had 890 BTI and 905 Frond. AMR suggested the Guarm was an upgrade over Frond but Effinhunter's trinket sims put 890 Urn(same as Guarm) @ 460,386 #141 and 905 Frond @ 462,143 #112.

    Its about a 283 agility loss versus 1137 mastery(2.8%) gain.

    Pretty trivial overall, considering how useless the proc on Frond is currently. Worth using Eye of Guarm even with 15ilvl worth of agility loss?

  17. #1437
    Quote Originally Posted by Khrux View Post
    So finally got an 890 Guarm last night(mastery) and already had 890 BTI and 905 Frond. AMR suggested the Guarm was an upgrade over Frond but Effinhunter's trinket sims put 890 Urn(same as Guarm) @ 460,386 #141 and 905 Frond @ 462,143 #112.

    Its about a 283 agility loss versus 1137 mastery(2.8%) gain.

    Pretty trivial overall, considering how useless the proc on Frond is currently. Worth using Eye of Guarm even with 15ilvl worth of agility loss?
    I can try rerunning the sims this weekend. Probably pushing M+ keys as much as possible this weekend though, since this is the best affix week to do it for US.

    Edit: Probably going to up the base gear profile to 900 ilvl on all sims, unless someone has specific issues with that.

    P.S. Does anyone care about m+ streams for 22+ keys for BM hunters? I think Khord from my group might be running a stream intermittently but that would be from tank perspective. I could possibly look into starting one up for this weekend. We're hoping to catch up to EU a bit because of the affixes. We run late (midnight EST up to 5 a.m.) because of raid schedules.
    Last edited by Effinhunter; 2017-02-17 at 05:33 PM.

  18. #1438
    All trinket sims except for SV 6 target should be updated. I'm looking through talent sims, checking for any problems. SV is simming really, really high for me right now. There have been a lot of hunter changes to SV in the simcraft module in the past two weeks.

    https://github.com/simulationcraft/s.../sc_hunter.cpp

    I'm currently seeing something like an 80k difference between SV and BM and ~65k between SV and MM. We've seen major issues in the SV module before in this expansion, so I'm not holding my breath. I don't play SV, and I only have 40 points in it right now. Can anyone confirm if these changes in Simc are correct?

  19. #1439
    Quote Originally Posted by Effinhunter View Post
    There have been a lot of hunter changes to SV in the simcraft module in the past two weeks.

    Can anyone confirm if these changes in Simc are correct?
    I have a feeling "[Hunter] Mongoose Power (SV T19 4pc) affects all damage" is the only significant change recently, the other changes to lacerate refresh windows and the latency of Spitting Cobra using its attacks are very minor.

    Mongoose power is a buff on self when you reach 6 stacks of mongoose that increases dmg by X for Y seconds. I guess the sim wasn't increasing anything other than ability damage, so missing auto attacks, pet damage and maybe trinket procs, hidden satyr procs etc.

    On trinket sims; looks like Urn/Guarm has dropped again.

    From my last check it was 890 Urn/Guarm @ 460,386 #141 and 905 Frond @ 462,143 #112. Now its 890 Urn/Guarm #154 @ 484141 and 905 Frond #121 @ 486080.

  20. #1440
    I have belt, prydaz and trinket as legendary choices for my bm hunter.
    If i go by icy-veins sims i should choose belt+trinket.
    But does this take into consideration what options you have as non-legendary.

    I mean there are some really nice none-legendary trinkets out there compared to non-legendary necks.

    I am sort of wondering if it would be better to use prydaz+belt if i have some special trinkets?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •