Poll: Is this build good?

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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Amalkatrazz View Post
    I have absolutely no desire to do any research, so I'll link one of my own parses. I don't have those precious belts, rings, or helms. And I am nowhere close to a decent player. Some of my logs drop as low as to 60-70% (especially if I am experimenting with gear, fail to make use of fight mechanics like Elisande's time-boosters, or switch to UH, for which I have neither appropriate gear nor appropriate skill).

    OK, I made a search just out of curiousity and found this log: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...&view=rankings. An FDK made it to the 98th percentile, and his only legendary was the Blood ring. Not your precious KNW belt, not your double-HRW ring. Not even the helmet. The goddamn Blood ring. For Frost, its value is even less than that of Sephuz' Secret.

    So to hell with those who say one can't get good numbers out of BoS without the legendaries. If you can't do so, legendaries won't make into a decent player anyway.
    That's not without legendaries, as you said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amalkatrazz View Post
    Earlier you said that the legendaries make for a 50% difference, so please find out the exact increase value before you dare discuss it.
    You mean like how you didn't do yourself?


    Bit of a hippocrate.

  2. #42
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by mmowin View Post
    Hold on. Does the damage buff you get from helm apply to bosses too? I never could get a concrete answer about this. Also, if I damage a boss with remorseless winter does the 40% damage buff stay on permanently?
    yes it was hotfixed some time ago

    and no... the buff stays as long as RW is active

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Protean View Post
    That's not without legendaries, as you said.



    You mean like how you didn't do yourself?


    Bit of a hippocrate.
    That's not the legendaries that another forum member says make for a 50% increase. Or you think the Blood ring is a significant DPS increase? it's even lesser a gain than SS, I'd say it's a downgrade to some extent compared to, say, a 900+ ring from the Arcway.

    I am not doing that because I am not stating any exaggerated numbers a particular legendary would provide.
    Last edited by Amalkatrazz; 2017-02-02 at 12:47 PM.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Fanakk View Post
    yes it was hotfixed some time ago

    and no... the buff stays as long as RW is active
    All this time I could have been doing more dps. oh well now i know.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Stravs View Post
    Thought I would switch from MG due to starvation issues but BoS turned out even worse for me... Maybe a little more practice with it btw have you guys seen the posts about Frost starving since the patch?
    You mind if I ask. How much dps were you doing with MG build vs BoS build?

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Amalkatrazz View Post
    That's not the legendaries that another forum member says make for a 50% increase. Or you think the Blood ring is a significant DPS increase? it's even lesser a gain than SS, I'd say it's a downgrade to some extent compared to, say, a 900+ ring from the Arcway.

    I am not doing that because I am not stating any exaggerated numbers a particular legendary would provide.
    That's not what you said. You said:
    Quote Originally Posted by Amalkatrazz View Post
    There are FDKs w/o legendaries who parse above 95%. That's it.
    Without legendaries, not "with suboptimal legendaries" or "trash legendaries".

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Protean View Post
    That's not what you said. You said:


    Without legendaries, not "with suboptimal legendaries" or "trash legendaries".
    My only mistake was that I omitted the article (which happens at times because my mother tongue has no articles). If I wrote 'the legendaries' (to refer to the previously mentioned ones) or 'the DPS legendaries' the statement would be less ambiguous. That doesn't make your argument any stronger because you're criticizing the ambigious wording rather than the thought behind it. Your initial argument was as follows:

    Quote Originally Posted by Strifeload View Post
    Note: this build takes softcaps and its required. About 18-20%crit, 25% haste. After that, dump even more to haste(top performing people got more than 35% haste)and all the rest to mastery. After the 18-20%crit, everything with haste/mastery is basicly really good(with haste being major).

    AND:

    You also need to get the legendary Ring. AND if you could get the helm or bracers/waist.

    If you don't have the gear, this build is NOT fun(you better go with regular builds as you will perform better). But if you do, the DPS you can deal will also make the rotation more rewarding(or fun).
    and I suppose you were referring to BoS-specific gear, not just any gear. The same great Warcraftlogs site shows that BoS outperforms 'regular builds' with no BoS enablers. More than that, I believe what is possible to achieve with a legendary that doesn't even match the spec (what does a Blood legendary give an FDK aside from stats?) is equally possible with a high-ilvl epic that offers more appropriate secondaries.

    Even in top 5%, people with, as you said, suboptimal legendaries (I'd say 'sub-bottom') sometimes outperform those with the perfect legendary set. What does that mean? That means skill is still more important than gear. While there is no denying that world's top DPS is a combination of perfect gear, perfect execution, and to a lesser extent perfect RNG, there is no sense in claiming that your contribution as a DPS player won't be substantial without orange things.

    Btw, according to the logs, there are almost no FDKs who have no legendary at all. Have found multiple examples of guys doing actually great DPS yet using Unholy legendaries (farmed pre-7.1 I suppose) or some shit like Prydaz. Exclusion of all popular legendaries returns no results.
    Last edited by Amalkatrazz; 2017-02-03 at 11:51 PM.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Amalkatrazz View Post
    My only mistake was that I omitted the article (which happens at times because my mother tongue has no articles). If I wrote 'the legendaries' (to refer to the previously mentioned ones) or 'the DPS legendaries' the statement would be less ambiguous. That doesn't make your argument any stronger because you're criticizing the ambigious wording rather than the thought behind it. Your initial argument was as follows:



    and I suppose you were referring to BoS-specific gear, not just any gear. The same great Warcraftlogs site shows that BoS outperforms 'regular builds' with no BoS enablers. More than that, I believe what is possible to achieve with a legendary that doesn't even match the spec (what does a Blood legendary give an FDK aside from stats?) is equally possible with a high-ilvl epic that offers more appropriate secondaries.

    Even in top 5%, people with, as you said, suboptimal legendaries (I'd say 'sub-bottom') sometimes outperform those with the perfect legendary set. What does that mean? That means skill is still more important than gear. While there is no denying that world's top DPS is a combination of perfect gear, perfect execution, and to a lesser extent perfect RNG, there is no sense in claiming that your contribution as a DPS player won't be substantial without orange things.

    Btw, according to the logs, there are almost no FDKs who have no legendary at all. Have found multiple examples of guys doing actually great DPS yet using Unholy legendaries (farmed pre-7.1 I suppose) or some shit like Prydaz. Exclusion of all popular legendaries returns no results.
    Two different people. Please try to keep up.

  8. #48
    It is possible to still do insane dps with the BoS build. Right now, I'm using the sepuz secret ring and the cloak that heals you. I'd imagine I would be doing even more dps if I was one of the lucky few who the the bracers and the belt but nope. Every legendary ive gotten to date is one of those frickin "utility" legendaries that everyone hates. Oh well keep farming Mythic+ maye one of these days ill get it to drop.

  9. #49
    What spec are you guys running in mythic+ dungeons? Are you going with BoS spec or MG spec for mythic+? I have the legendary cloak and ring.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by mmowin View Post
    What spec are you guys running in mythic+ dungeons? Are you going with BoS spec or MG spec for mythic+? I have the legendary cloak and ring.
    BoS is great for everything, I don't change talents...ever.
    Only advantage MG has is shorter pillar cd so you can aoe stun more often.

  11. #51
    Mythics dungeons is all about doing damage to multiples ennemies. BoS may be great but it has a 2 min CD, which doesn't work on each pack. In this case your best solutions are Frostscythe, Remorseless Winter and Howling blast. I'd not be surprised if HB does more damage than the other two, providing you have Helm and waist + Freezing Fog's talent + 2 pieces.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Woop Woop View Post
    BoS is great for everything, I don't change talents...ever.
    Only advantage MG has is shorter pillar cd so you can aoe stun more often.
    Do you use your BOS on trash? Or just save it for bosses only cause sometimes if there is a lot of trash i just use it for faster clear.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by mmowin View Post
    Do you use your BOS on trash? Or just save it for bosses only cause sometimes if there is a lot of trash i just use it for faster clear.
    If I think it will be off cd in time for bosses, yea.
    Kinda depends on what dungeon it is and what level of m+ it is.

  14. #54
    Thanks for the guide.

  15. #55
    Pandaren Monk I stand in fire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dankdruid View Post
    death knights are not viable. flat dmg buff and everyone has forgot core issues.
    you would be surprised to see how competitive frost is right now. gitgud
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  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by I stand in fire View Post
    you would be surprised to see how competitive frost is right now. gitgud
    Frost is really good, especially when you get the 4 piece from Nighthold. Everything just feels awesome with the 4 piece set.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by I stand in fire View Post
    you would be surprised to see how competitive frost is right now. gitgud
    Only because so many fights in Nighthold involve AoE in some capacity. You're still better off being a rogue, warrior, or demon hunter. Better burst damage, better sustained, better utility, better mobility, and better survivability in some respects. Death Knights have been gimped this entire expansion so far and it's probably not going to get any better. But hey as long as we've got decent players in mediocre guilds topping charts and inflating logs with AoE, Frost will continue to shine just as long as you ignore the rogues, warriors, and demon hunters leaving you in the dust with only half as much gear as you. It's sad seeing so many DK's settle when they should still be pushing for improvements.
    "He who lives without discipline dies without honor" - Viking proverb

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