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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Myz View Post
    Your behavior says otherwise.

    All these "I don't care" posts are always hilarious, while they took the time to open the thread, read some of its posts and throw a bitch fit over one of them and cared enough to spend time replying to it.

    What a joke. Typical neckbeard.
    Certainly agree.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashtwo View Post
    Instead of over-exaggerating how hard the game is, manage your time better.
    You can tell that yourself all day but fact remains to stay even remotely as "competitive" as in previous addons you probably spend already more time on this shitty game than on the whole of wod in the top50ies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbypro View Post
    What a retarded statement. WoW is built on raids. Go play Pokemon Go.
    Pretty sure that's too hard for him. I'd suggest some browser game - one of those you have to collect shit every 24 hours.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Practically speaking, if there was a weekly AP cap that was very high (high enough to not impact casual players), would it really matter to anyone?
    In practical terms there always has been.

    It's based on Artifact Knowledge. Effectively because of the way AK works, at some point grinding more AP just becomes pointless. People could still obviously keep on farming for more AP but it was a massively stupid waste of time.

    People who are getting frustrated with the AP grind are in that position because they don't get it. They want to max out their character even though it's patently obvious that the game is trying to discourage them from doing so. But instead of recognising their folly they just double down and invent alternative facts to support their assertion. Ones like:

    "You need max artifact plus ilevel 900+" to do NH Mythic. And it doesn't matter how much logic or reason you bring to the table, they will not accept it. For example:
    Artifact Level 54 + ilevel 900 = Artifact Level 50 + ilevel 902.

    The only requirement for a competitive guild to remain competitive is to be on the same level as the competition. There is no objective level that AP has to get to in order to play the game, it's entirely determined by the people competing.

    But yes, I fully expect a bunch of top players to come and lecture me about how I know nothing about about the state of NH Mythic, as if being an expert at a game somehow exempts one from applying logic and reason to an argument ::

  3. #63
    Elemental Lord Lady Dragonheart's Avatar
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    Good? I don't really see this as much of a bad thing, really.
    I am both the Lady of Dusk, Vheliana Nightwing & Dark Priestess of Lust, Loreleî Legace!
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    <3 ~ I am also the ever-enticing leader of <The Coven of Dusk Desires> on Moon Guard!

  4. #64
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Fevyx View Post
    There is plenty of content? What are you even on about.
    He isn't getting exactly what he wants, so nobody is supposed to get the content they want.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    remain competitive is to be on the same level as the competition.
    applying logic and reason to an argument
    Sounds like someone who has never been competitive about anything .

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racthoh View Post
    instead this twists into everything you do that does not gain AP feels like you are wasting time playing.
    Precisely. It feels like you are wasting your time. It's not an objective assessment. If people actually stopped to analyse the situation for a few seconds maybe sanity would start to prevail.

    Blizzard intended the AP system to be something you progress slowly over a long period of time. They didn't place strict parameters on it so as to allow people to choose to play at their own pace. Instead what has happened is that some people feel the need to devote every waking second to squeezing out every last ounce of AP because they haven't bothered to sit down and rationally look at whether it makes sense or not.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Myz View Post
    If only you had a clue how anything competitive works.

    It's fine to have people finish their AP grind in the next 9 months, but then you need to cap the AP gain per week. It's the only way to prevent burnout among competitive guilds.

    And to anyone saying the game isn't balanced around competitive guilds: raids are. Nighthold Mythic is balanced around 50-54 traits mostly, Blizzard didn't have a choice:
    - With the TF and Legendary systems there isn't a massive step change in gear from the new raid.
    - Due to AP being farmable ad infinitum the bosses would fall over if it was tuned for 35 traits instead.

    The AP system, TF system and Legendary system are total fuck ups when it comes to balancing the raids for the general public. In the past raids were balanced around gradual ilvl increases, trinkets drops and tier pieces. Encounters would become doable as practice time and gear increased.
    Now you have uncapped external factors messing that progression up.
    AP system is mostly fine and will work easily as a mechanic to make raids easier over time. the ONLY issue this time around was that NH was released so damn late into the expansion (which would be fine) but the AP grind past 35 was there since release, if it was staggered like they planning now and released just before the raid with new, heavily inflated AK levels, it would have been just fine, as the raid would have been tuned for like rank 40 weapon. the months long grind of AP would suddenly be only two week long, you wouldnt need to worry to level the weapon to insane levels, because it wouldnt be humanly possible anyway and people would have months before next patch to easily get 54 on their own pace, including hardcores, as the race is over for them in two weeks anyway, where they couldnt get more ranks.

    just imagine how not burnt out people would be, if after helya, they knew they had two month pause with no need to grind AP like madmen

    legendaries could use targeting/trading off unwanted pieces and hopefully we will see done and Im saying that as someone, who was extremely lucky with leg drops

    TF system... eh, I probably prefer valor upgrades and MoP TF with marginal ilevel increases, would likely make people want to run the hardest m+ instead of farming 9s and hoping for insane procs

  8. #68
    I think the AP grind is fine....if you play one character. I can't even imagine doing this shit for more than one.

    I guess the hardcore guilds are starting to see the light.

    Also it's pretty obvious Blizzard couldn't care less about it if they keep doing the same stuff.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by cFortyfive View Post
    Sounds like someone who has never been competitive about anything .
    Sounds like a silly ad hominem from someone who lacks an actual rational argument

    FYI: I am a pretty competitive person and have been very successful in several things. Here's something I have learned along the way:

    Losers whine about the system. Winners STFU and get on with it.

  10. #70
    Waaah we aren't even in top-10. Let's call!

    Pfff kids...
    Why you think the Net was born? Porn! Porn! Porn!

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Dangg View Post
    Best kind of posts.
    At least in this case it's somewhat plausible. I always chuckle when I see a 10000 post 2010 join date user claiming: 'What is Paragon?' 'Who is this Sco guy?'
    Well think of them as such people who only know what happens around them within half a mile radius (imagine one of those super depressing and full-of-gossip little town communities) but any wider general knowledge is highly frowned upon as "pointless" and so on.
    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    Nobody is stopping you to play Elemental casually during questing or raiding #1000 with your disabled mage friends.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Paula Deen View Post
    https://i.imgur.com/6muNVRY.mp4

    I wish I could be as deluded as you my dude. The AP Grind isn't fine. I took a three month break and came back too far behind to catch up again atleast till 7.2. The Catch Up Mechanics are useless. The Base Grind is too hard. Face it. The System is awful. Blizzard better realize really quick what they did wrong and they better not repeat it. They like to do this thing where they make great games then have one shitty system ruin the whole thing. In WoD it was the Patch Cycle. In Legion its this shit.
    Legion has been out like 5 months. So you didn't play for over 50% of the expansion and now its an issue that you can't be at the very top of competitive stuff? I have to disagree that you should be able to catch up that quickly.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    "You need max artifact plus ilevel 900+" to do NH Mythic. And it doesn't matter how much logic or reason you bring to the table, they will not accept it. For example:
    Artifact Level 54 + ilevel 900 = Artifact Level 50 + ilevel 902.
    Considering the fact that only 4 guilds have killed Mythic Guldan, and 11 others have killed Mythic Elisande (with the heaviest AP/Titanforge farming, class-stacking and legendary-poaching). It's quite clear to see what Nighthold is tuned for.

    I figure we'll soon see many more guilds doing the same and going casual. The difficulty of mechanics is as good as ever - but the grind required to meet the number-checks (DPS, Healing) is simply not worth it.

    Probably the worst gameplay-decision Blizzard has ever made - it is not difficult to farm 200+ Maw of Souls. It's simply bad design.
    Last edited by Astigmatizm; 2017-02-14 at 02:50 PM.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam the Wiser View Post
    This is what actual burnout looks like. Yet, people will defend this system. Get in here fan boys! Defend this! Love your GRIND!
    How long have Midwinter been raiding exactly?

    Like seriously, how long can people play the same game?

    WoW is 12 fucking years old. When it came out people were still playing PS2 games.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  15. #75
    I don't blame them. It's an insane amount of work for no reward, even for top5 guilds.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Shot89 View Post
    Yeah, i defend a game where the 90% (let's say 85% so you are happy) of players can log in every day and do something really useful if they want to. Yeah WoD was so much better for that 10% of player, just log in 3 days a week and get your WF.
    But what about all thepeople with nothing to do, or better raid mythic or gtfo?
    Now you have one hundred+1 way to increase you character power, and to be honest this game shuold not be tuned on those who fell forced to do them all in a month.

    (if you want to talk about the quality or if you like to do that things, it's another topic).
    Blizzard could simply cap the artifact level for mythic. They probably should have already done that.

    But this is really a lesson: maybe a weekly makes us feel we HAVE to do x numbers, but having no cap = people grinding themselves into dust. The former is better.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astigmatizm View Post
    Considering the fact that only 4 guilds have killed Mythic Guldan, and 11 others have killed Mythic Elisande (with the heaviest AP/Titanforge farming, class-stacking and legendary-poaching). It's quite clear to see what Nighthold is tuned for.
    I guess I have to spell it out: Paragon artifact levels have the same nett effect as ilevel. In other words the "requirement" to have a level 54 artifact weapon can be mitigated by spending a bit more time farming better gear. So, to be clear, Mythic NH is not tuned for level 54 artifacts. It's tuned for a gear strength that can be achieved by a combination of Artifact Paragon level plus X weeks of gear obtained during progression.

    Sure, if you want to clear the hardest content in the game in 3 weeks, you'll probably need to have maxxed your artifact. Not that this should really be an issue at this stage. Reaching level 54 by the start of NH was actually pretty trivial for any dedicated player, as evidenced by the way a not entirely insignificant number of players were complaining about having nothing to spend their AP tokens on having done more than 3 times the effort required to get their main artifact levelled up even before NH arrived (so much so that Blizzard had to make those tokens sellable).

    So really, why people think this proves that the new AP grind is a bad thing is a mystery.

  18. #78
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    Progression raiding, LUL. Nobody outside of EU has even really cared in years now. Not really sure why the EU guilds do it, they get nothing for it. So much time and effort spent on something with zero reward.

    Raiding is a little stagnant right now, and the only way that's ever going to change is if Blizzard gives some tangible reward to the world first race. If that happens we'll see some pretty fantastic competition from around the world, otherwise it's just a couple EU guilds battling it out for nothing.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demeia View Post
    But this is really a lesson: maybe a weekly makes us feel we HAVE to do x numbers, but having no cap = people grinding themselves into dust. The former is better.
    This assumes it's the same people. Setting a weekly cap that is achievable turns it into a chore for everyone. Having no cap means that stupid people grind themselves into dust. IMO the latter is better.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paula Deen View Post
    Yep.

    I hope Blizzard realizes what an AWFUL series of Design Decisions they made with Legion. All we fuckiing needed was MoP Style Endgame. Why did we get this shit?
    Speak for yourselve plz =) I hated pandaria and pretty much love Legion thus far

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