12 million more migrants planned for Germany

[JohnBrown1917]

I think it will help the rise of racism.
When it eventually grows big enough that they have a political presence and can influence things the left over there in Germany will be going "Oh my god, how could something like this happen? Who could have foreseen that forcing our own citizens to accept foreigners who don't integrate into the society would give rise to racism?!?!?!?!?!?"

You realize its the right who came up with this idea?

[Deleted]

You realize its the right who came up with this idea?

A liberal-conservative party. And no, it's the centre-right.

[Renyo]

Germany needs highly qualified workers not people who barely pass Pisa 1. The immigrants from Syria or Africa that come as "refugees" dont qualify under these conditions. They are ballast and will continue to be for generations to come if we dont manage to give them either enough incentive to leave on their own or deport them forcefully.

Maybe I should have expressed myself clear. I do not see much connection between needing 300.000 (or more) immigrants and an influx of refugees. Some of those 300k can be refugees if they qualify or will be educated to qualify for the vacant jobs. I would try to seperate the immigration 'system' (you could argue that Germany has none) and the asylum system. The first one is there to fill those vacant jobs and create a relative demographic stability, the other is there to help people in need. The asylum system is not there to satisfy our own interests.
Nevertheless, most of the asylum seekers are quite young. So we can take the chance and try to educate them as best as we can. We do not only need doctors, professors and IT experts, we also need craftsmen, geriatric nurses etc.

[JohnBrown1917]

From people who have moved from my country to USA that I know? They have a better life there than here, earn way more money than they would here. I doubt germany is very different from Sweden in this regard.

So anecdotal, not much help.

[Deleted]

From people who have moved from my country to USA that I know? They have a better life there than here, earn way more money than they would here. I doubt germany is very different from Sweden in this regard.

If you have a high-education high-end job, you can make more in the US, especially with their low taxes.

Everybody else - not so much. In general, the quality of living in the US is significantly below German standards.

[Tiev]

Immigrants are not a problem. The problem comes with those who won't adapt to the culture. Usually, arabs are the people who have the least chance/desire to adapt to the their host countries (that gathered from purely personal experience in Canada, france and the UK).

[JohnBrown1917]

A liberal-conservative party. And no, it's the centre-right.

So yes, not the left.
Good you agree with me, rather pointless to reply tho.

[Ravenblade]

4% of the work force is unemployed so we can import people and give them jobs? Why not fill empty slots with the 4%?

That's not how solving unemployment works or for that matter how unemployment works. People not qualified for a job can hardly be hired for jobs they are not qualified for. You also have season-related unemployment (construction workers for instance), people who are moving to a different place, people who got fired because businesses have closed or simply temporary workers who go from job to job rather than having a fixed job.

In East Thuringia the prognosis is that 25% of all companies have to close not because they are doing bad but because there is a lack of apprentices, there won't be anyone left to run their business. We have jobs for which they already are hiring from overseas especially in healthcare business (clinics and hospitals). We have vocational schools closing because there are barely enough trainees for one class. Schools have been merged or closed because of lack of children. The overall outlook isn't about unemployed people anyway, it is about vacant positions which if not filled will have dramatic side effects. The healthcare sector can already tell you stories about it: The German healthcare industry is already suffering from chronic need to save and chronic understaffing.

[JohnBrown1917]

The vast majority will not be employable for decades in any self sustaining fashion. There is a very low single digit percentage that we can hopefully employ in that manner and even that borders on wishfull thinking.

Its not hard to only let immigrants in who can get a job... its the standard method even.

[Deleted]

So yes, not the left.
Good you agree with me, rather pointless to reply tho.

No, not rather pointless. Liberal-conservatism incorporates a lot of (social) liberalism in their policies, which is often left-wing, unless you mean classic liberalism. That doesn't mean the party as a whole suddenly strays from being centre-right due to such policies but it also means that they introduce left-wing policies.

[Runenwächter]

How would we do that? Especially in the field of manual labour you can't _force_ the unemployed to take over work.

If people don't want to pick up a job as butcher, baker, field work et cetera, then I have no problem whatsoever to let immigrants do this?

Yeah, but lets vet immigrants first if they actually qualify to pick up an apprenticeship in these professions ok?

You dont get to ask for a german apprentice who has a high school degree at the very least but disregard that when you ask for an immigrant. Lets check wether the immigrant you allegedly need to fill that position passes the same bar. Because even a butcher needs to be able to read, write and understand the native language enough to follow the course and the instructions at his workplace.

Which is a bar 9/10 dont pass.

[XDurionX]

Show me a syrian or sudani heart surgeon qualified to work in a german hospital then. I double dare you.

Have you actually taken a look at the studies about their eduction level?
Have you had a look at the numbers of those that took up an apprenticeship? 9 out of 10, that passed the bar that was more than generously lowered for them, quit. I fucking dare you to take a look at the "reasons" they gave.

The vast majority will not be employable for decades in any self sustaining fashion. There is a very low single digit percentage that we can hopefully employ in that manner and even that borders on wishfull thinking.

You do realize that all of these people CREATE jobs as well? They all need food, shelter, healthcare and and and...

And that the vast majority is unemployable is a myth. Mayn will have jobs with a low entry level, which is true, but your claim has no base in reality.

[JohnBrown1917]

No, not rather pointless. Liberal-conservatism incorporates a lot of (social) liberalism in their policies, which is often left-wing, unless you mean classic liberalism. That doesn't mean the party as a whole suddenly strays from being centre-right due to such policies but it also means that they introduce left-wing policies.

Which still does not make Merkel left wing, but keep trying.
Liberalism is not a left-wing idealogy in Europa, or anywhere outside the US.

[Deleted]

Which still does not make Merkel left wing, but keep trying.

I never said it did. I'm explaining what liberal-conservatism is.

Liberalism is not a left-wing idealogy in Europa, or anywhere outside the US.

What liberal-conservatism usually incorporates is not classical liberalism, which you seem to be talking about. It's more often socially liberal policies they implement, which is a hallmark of left.

Liberalism =/= liberal-conservatism.

[Deleted]

Yeah, but lets vet immigrants first if they actually qualify to pick up an apprenticeship in these professions ok?

You dont get to ask for a german apprentice who has a high school degree at the very least but disregard that when you ask for an immigrant. Lets check wether the immigrant you allegedly need to fill that position passes the same bar. Because even a butcher needs to be able to read, write and understand the native language enough to follow the course and the instructions at his workplace.

Which is a bar 9/10 dont pass.

But which is a bar that immigrants will pass in the near future. Language is the real barrier, and this requires school and training.

Current projections show that more than 50% of all immigrants will be regularly employed within 5 years. Better than let them drown in the mediterranean or rot in some border camps.

[Heltoray]

Proof that it's made up shit? People said it wouldn't be so many in 2015 but then millions upon millions came to europe. No reason to believe this will be any different.

Final numberes show about 1.1 million in 2015.
OP's "source" took Merkels words way out of context. That makes it made up shit.
Can we stop these sensationalist crap threads please? Would be a good start if people knew what a proper source of information is... reading 3 headlines on that page was enough for me to consider it trash that's not worth the time it takes to read the articles. If their are any sort of emotionally loaded words in the headlines, I don't even bother.

[Mayhem]

Yeah, but lets vet immigrants first if they actually qualify to pick up an apprenticeship in these professions ok?

You dont get to ask for a german apprentice who has a high school degree at the very least but disregard that when you ask for an immigrant. Lets check wether the immigrant you allegedly need to fill that position passes the same bar. Because even a butcher needs to be able to read, write and understand the native language enough to follow the course and the instructions at his workplace.

Which is a bar 9/10 dont pass.

What are the immigration laws in germany? I mean, you do understand you´re not talking about refugees here, right?

[Combatbutler]

And that the vast majority is unemployable is a myth. Mayn will have jobs with a low entry level, which is true, but your claim has no base in reality.

For most refugees the statement is true, but this is not what this article is about, it is about immigration and that is an entirely different matter.

A refugee is not meant to stay in Germany an Immigrant on the other hand is.

[JohnBrown1917]

I never said it did. I'm explaining what liberal-conservatism is.

Try to understand the context of who I replied too.

What liberal-conservatism usually incorporates is not classical liberalism, which you seem to be talking about. It's more often socially liberal policies they implement, which is a hallmark of left.

Liberalism =/= liberal-conservatism.

Which still, what my whole point was, does not make Merkel left-wing.

[Combatbutler]

What are the immigration laws in germany? I mean, you do understand you´re not talking about refugees here, right?

Especially since refugees are usually not allowed to work to begin with.