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  1. #801
    Quote Originally Posted by TwoNineMarine View Post
    Thanks for the responses everyone.

    I guess I still don't see the legal issue behind this. My understanding is that if they were actually negotiating deals then it's illegal under the Logan Act but if they were simply discussing plans and what not that it's not.

    It's a fine line I understand but from everything I've read there hasn't been anything illegal done so far.

    It absolutely looks shady though so hopefully they get to the bottom of it to see if there was anything illegal actually done.
    I think about it this way.

    Imagine if we found out that Obama and his staff had been talking to Iranian intelligence agents in2007 and 2008 before he was elected. His staff spoke to them, telling them to Not worry about sanctions, and they would.make it right by them. Not only were they in contact, but Iranian intelligence agencies pushed a major campaign to undermine our election process and get Obama elected.

    Now imagine if Obama then proceeded to speak highly of the Iranian government, got rid of sanctions, pushed money in their direction, and pushed even closer to them than he actually did.

    How pissed do you think people would be?

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnyderp View Post
    It's about time to start executing the leftist filth tbh. Utter subhuman trash, this thread just proves it.
    Thanks for your contribution.

  2. #802
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    It should be noted that, as of now, CNN, ABC, and CBS have each cited their own sources when discussing the unfolding story. They are not just quoting the Times verbatim. NBC and Reuters, so far, have not independently confirmed anything.

    Plus, again, Trump confirmed it on Twitter. Expect his staff to backpedal for him today. "What he meant was..."
    Yeah given that Trump has confirmed that all this info that is coming out is real, its impossible for him or others to credibly claim its fake news.

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...53862281699331
    The real scandal here is that classified information is illegally given out by "intelligence" like candy. Very un-American! - Trump

    Worse still it hits right at his ability to claim plausible deniability. Until this tweet he could have claimed that they were acting without his backing and he didn't know. But now he's just confirmed that those anonymous sources are 100% correct. How can he do that if he himself is not in the know on what they did?
    Quote Originally Posted by Redtower View Post
    I don't think I ever hide the fact I was a national socialist. The fact I am a German one is what technically makes me a nazi
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    You haven't seen nothing yet, we trumpsters will definitely be getting some cool uniforms soon I hope.

  3. #803
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexw View Post
    How can he do that if he himself is not in the know on what they did?
    It gets better. How much can Trump say "I didn't know" before admitting that he had no control over the unethical/illegal things being done by high-ranking members of his very own staff? At some point, ignorance stops being a shield and starts being an anchor.

  4. #804
    It's NY Times. Nothing is truth with them
    There is the sad paradox of a world which is more and more sensitive about being politically correct, almost to the point of ridicule, yet does not wish to acknowledge or to respect believers’ faith in God

  5. #805
    Quote Originally Posted by johnyderp View Post
    It's about time to start executing the leftist filth tbh. Utter subhuman trash, this thread just proves it.
    Remember all the Trump-Dummies claming how bad the Left anti-trump protests were? See what this person wrote? This is what I'm REALLY afraid of via a Donald Dump impeachment. The Alt-right Dumpsters themselves will not only forget their accusations and they themselves protest - but unlike the Left, many will not just protest - they will actively try to revolt via shooting people with AR-15s and the same Milita BS like they were threatening to do if Hillary won the election.

  6. #806
    Deleted
    Its official because someone on the trust level of Alex "THEY ARE TURNING THE FROGS GAY" Jones said so. Raaaaaaaight

  7. #807
    Deleted
    So civilians in Trump's campaign and personal click talked to russians, only confirmed russian govt. people. So what? That's what's foreign affairs means. I would have considered the democrats all being pro-globalisations to love long talks with a foreign country. Isn't as shocking as Obama meeting Saudi Price...Russia is just a country, USA is not at work with it and they fight as alies in Syria against ISIS.

    Now all of his staff and including Trump, since he's elected, HAS to deal with foreign countries, Russia included. Treating Russia like a taboo country only maintains the Cold War paranoia to the benefit of the industrial military complex that would like to sell a few more weapons in case of a war!

    ps: Just like they do in Europe. Yeah like my country stands a chance against invasion by Russia, if only we spend 2% of GDP to buy american warfare!

  8. #808
    Quote Originally Posted by sethman75 View Post
    It's NY Times. Nothing is truth with them
    Thank you for your detailed and thoughtful contribution.

  9. #809
    OK, I am not going to read through 42 pages just to see if this has been posted or not, but right from the article.

    Several of Mr. Trump’s associates, like Mr. Manafort, have done business in Russia. And it is not unusual for American businessmen to come in contact with foreign intelligence officials, sometimes unwittingly, in countries like Russia and Ukraine, where the spy services are deeply embedded in society. Law enforcement officials did not say to what extent the contacts might have been about business.

    The officials would not disclose many details, including what was discussed on the calls, the identity of the Russian intelligence officials who participated, and how many of Mr. Trump’s advisers were talking to the Russians. It is also unclear whether the conversations had anything to do with Mr. Trump himself.


    So, no evidence that the discussions had anything to do with Trump or were at all out of the ordinary for international businessmen. Talk about trying to sensationalize things.

  10. #810
    Deleted
    I hope its a real chance that america and the world gets rid of that racist.

  11. #811
    The Patient Kardagh's Avatar
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    The cogs of the anti-trump machine get some more oil to continue their never-ending grinding against democracy.

    Investigate Flynn for the level of wrong-doing, give the appropriate sentence and be done with it. Sure it won't satisfy the more rabid liberals but then again nothing short of instating the eternal rule of Barry "Can-do-no-wrong" Obama and ending Democracy in america would do.

    So that's the Hotel scandal, the Trump is a spy scandal, Trump is a misogynist scandal. He's still standing and very likely will be standing after this. We should be calling him the Teflon President by the end of his term. That is of course some 5th columnist in the pay of a multinational globalist doesn't gun the guy down.

  12. #812
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForLoveOfMe View Post
    So civilians in Trump's campaign and personal click talked to russians, only confirmed russian govt. people.
    Yes. Nonvetted civilians talked directly with Russia's spy agencies, at a time Russia's spy agencies were directly interfering with the election to get Trump elected.

    You can see why this is a big deal. Nonvetted civilians aren't supposed to contact foreign powers, especially hostile ones, to undermine the US government.

    And the Trump administration should definitely not lie about it to the American people. Which, incidentally, they did.

  13. #813
    Quote Originally Posted by ForLoveOfMe View Post
    So civilians in Trump's campaign and personal click talked to russians, only confirmed russian govt. people. So what? That's what's foreign affairs means. I would have considered the democrats all being pro-globalisations to love long talks with a foreign country. Isn't as shocking as Obama meeting Saudi Price...Russia is just a country, USA is not at work with it and they fight as alies in Syria against ISIS.

    Now all of his staff and including Trump, since he's elected, HAS to deal with foreign countries, Russia included. Treating Russia like a taboo country only maintains the Cold War paranoia to the benefit of the industrial military complex that would like to sell a few more weapons in case of a war!

    This wasn't open dialogue which everyone saw happening, such as for example the Russian ambassador visiting Trump tower. Nor did it involve diplomats which is what foreign affairs contacts are.

    No, Trump's inner circle had secret clandestine communications with Russian intelligence agency officials, a.k.a spies. There really is no positive way you can spin this however much Trumpists like you try.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Thank you for your detailed and thoughtful contribution.
    Just report as spam since all he is doing is claiming it as fake news.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redtower View Post
    I don't think I ever hide the fact I was a national socialist. The fact I am a German one is what technically makes me a nazi
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    You haven't seen nothing yet, we trumpsters will definitely be getting some cool uniforms soon I hope.

  14. #814
    So unless there's some damning new details yet to be released, this is looking more and more like much ado about nothing. Which is disconcerting. That would mean we have an intelligence community actively trying to take down a democratically elected president.

  15. #815
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    Quote Originally Posted by Utinil View Post
    So, no evidence that the discussions had anything to do with Trump or were at all out of the ordinary for international businessmen. Talk about trying to sensationalize things.
    See, this is what happens when you skip 42 pages. This has been covered. The issues remain
    a) how close the people were to Trump who made the calls
    b) how often they did it
    c) when they did it

    The article you claim to have read specifies all three of these are suspicious. An investigation is called for, if for no other reason, to either expose this as a hoax, or to prove to the American people that nothing improper happened. I believe I cited a call for such an investigation a few posts back.

  16. #816
    Quote Originally Posted by sethman75 View Post
    It's NY Times. Nothing is truth with them
    Yes, yes. Only read the news your dear leader tells you to. Very American of you.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  17. #817
    Quote Originally Posted by Utinil View Post
    OK, I am not going to read through 42 pages just to see if this has been posted or not, but right from the article.

    Several of Mr. Trump’s associates, like Mr. Manafort, have done business in Russia. And it is not unusual for American businessmen to come in contact with foreign intelligence officials, sometimes unwittingly, in countries like Russia and Ukraine, where the spy services are deeply embedded in society. Law enforcement officials did not say to what extent the contacts might have been about business.

    The officials would not disclose many details, including what was discussed on the calls, the identity of the Russian intelligence officials who participated, and how many of Mr. Trump’s advisers were talking to the Russians. It is also unclear whether the conversations had anything to do with Mr. Trump himself.


    So, no evidence that the discussions had anything to do with Trump or were at all out of the ordinary for international businessmen. Talk about trying to sensationalize things.
    Lol. We are not Russia. Nor are we the Ukraine. You don't casually "bump" into Russian spies on US soil. Especially not in the way that is described, with multiple contacts by multiple different people over a long period of time.

    You Trump apologists are going to have to do better than this if you want to hand-wave it away. Your arguments are just not credible (just like Trumps).
    Quote Originally Posted by Redtower View Post
    I don't think I ever hide the fact I was a national socialist. The fact I am a German one is what technically makes me a nazi
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    You haven't seen nothing yet, we trumpsters will definitely be getting some cool uniforms soon I hope.

  18. #818
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    So now we just sit here and see where the final shoe drops.

    Ether our system works and Trump will be out on his ass or our system is 100% fucked and thing's get worse from here.
    I agree. If the reports are true, and this goes deep, the GOP will have to break with Trump and throw him under the bus. If they don't, and Trump stays, we're truly fucked.

  19. #819
    Quote Originally Posted by prwraith View Post
    Oh please. PLEASE. Enlighten us as to what is an unbiased source.
    Obviously the only unbiased source is Trump. You know, like that dumbass Republican representative, what was his name?


    Oh yeah, this fucking Dumbass.

  20. #820
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    Related:

    House bill would prevent Trump from lifting Russian sanctions

    Democratic leaders on Wednesday introduced bipartisan legislation in the House designed to prevent the Trump administration from lifting sanctions on Russia without congressional approval.

    A number of lawmakers in both parties have been alarmed by President Trump's friendly approach to the Kremlin and his seeming openness to removing sanctions put in place by President Obama in response to Russian aggression in Ukraine and Crimea, and the Kremlin's interference in November's U.S. presidential election.

    The legislation is designed "to ensure that Russia receives no sanctions relief until it earns it," in the words of Minority Whip Steny Hoyer (D-Md.), a sponsor of the bill.

    "Clearly, there has been some confusion as to exactly the status of sanctions that exist," Hoyer said.

    Rep. Adam Schiff (Calif.), senior Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, said the recent resignation of national security adviser Michael Flynn over discussions he had with the Russian ambassador have only heightened the need for Congress to empower itself to monitor the administration's sanctions approach.

    "I'm dismayed that such a step is even necessary," Schiff said. "These sanctions enjoyed bipartisan support when they were put in place by President Obama, and lifting them without a clear change in Russia's behavior would be nothing more than an appeasement of Putin's destabilizing agenda."

    "Not only has Russian behavior not changed," he added, "it has intensified."

    The legislation has bipartisan support, with the list of co-sponsors including GOP Reps. Tom Rooney (Fla.), Adam Kinzinger (Ill.) and Mike Turner (Ohio). Although both Rooney and Kinzinger had planned to attend Wednesday's unveiling, neither showed up.

    "Both Mr. Kinzinger and Mr. Rooney said that they were going to be here," Hoyer said when asked about the absence. "But I knew they had committees, so maybe they're tied up in committee."

    Hoyer said that he's also spoken to Rep. Ed Royce (R-Calif.), chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, who has "expressed interest" in the proposal.

    Hoyer said he will also soon be reaching out to Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) to promote the bill.

    "I would hope that he would join us," Hoyer said.

    A companion bill has also been introduced in the Senate, with bipartisan support from Sens. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), John McCain (R-Ariz.), Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), Ben Cardin (D-Md.), Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio) and Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.).

    During an appearance on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” early Wednesday, Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) said he would back congressional efforts to codify sanctions against Russia, if the president attempts to weaken them.

    “If those sanctions were to be watered down, I would, for sure, support codifying them and making sure they don’t get watered down,” Ryan said. “Because I do believe that Russia is a global menace, and their interests are not aligned with our interests.”

    ------------------

    The GOP was never Russia's friend. It's becoming clear now, that no matter what else the GOP and Trump have in common, this is something they are not prepared to accept.

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