‘Our land’: Russia tells US that Crimea won’t be ‘given back’ to Ukraine

[pateuvasiliu]

There is zero reason to 'give it back' since the people of Crimea voted to join Russia.

Took 1 post to have the thread Godwin'd, good job at false equivalence there.

That's not how the law works. A region can't VOTE to leave the country. The whole country has to, not just the region.


Also how do you know Russia didn't forge the votes?

[Elim Garak]

There being corruption in the world does not make corruption suddenly ok as many Putinistans seem to think.

Why suddenly? It's always ok. It's ok because it's unavoidable. It's the NORM. It's life. It's not perfect. Only children believe in a perfect world without corruption.

Also there being a difference of grade, Russia is magnitudes more corrupt than other nations in Europe and the USA. Unless you are willing to put Russia at the level of developing nations.

There are grades, but no one knows the exact grades. Anyone who claims to know is an idiot or a shill.

[Deleted]

There being corruption in the world does not make corruption suddenly ok as many Putinistans seem to think. Also there being a difference of grade, Russia is magnitudes more corrupt than other nations in Europe and the USA. Unless you are willing to put Russia at the level of developing nations.

The Difference is Putin has shown to be rather Western-friendly and a much more benevolent Dictator than other potential candidates. I am not shocked people like you want to Warhawk Putin out when he's simply not an Issue.

As for Crimea, the Ukraine was a corrupt system that had Russian minorities attacked and classed as second class citizens, I see no issue in Crimea VOTING for the chance to join back with Russia.

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That's not how the law works. A region can't VOTE to leave the country. The whole country has to, not just the region.


Also how do you know Russia didn't forge the votes?

By that logic, Crimea would never be allowed to join Russia because the corrupt Ukraine government is vastly anti Russian.

[Adolecent]

Everyone understand that west never will accept Russia as equal partner in their *western club*. People want, but everyone understand this will never happen (we tried in 1991-2008).

We certainly also hoped that Russia would have joined the West. But for that to happen Russia must have first dealt with the widespread corruption, implemented an impartial justice system, guaranteed full freedom of press and safeguard human rights. I'm afraid that under Putin that's not going to happen, but we respect and to a certain degree understand why the Russian people have chosen a leader like him. But because of the state Russia is in we can not openup our borders simply because it would put us at to much risk.

Feel free to come over here and share those rumors with actual people living here, but be prepared to have your face smashed into pavement.

War will be the end of the road. We first have to support the resistance and let it grow. Revolution needs delicate preparation to fully bloom.

[Deleted]

We certainly also hoped that Russia would have joined the West. But for that to happen Russia must have first dealt with the widespread corruption, implemented an impartial justice system, guaranteed full freedom of press and safeguard human rights. I'm afraid that under Putin that's not going to happen, but we respect and to a certain degree understand why the Russian people have chosen a leader like him. But because of the state Russia is in we can not openup our borders simply because it would put us at to much risk.

Just so you know, all of those are applicable to places like Russia, Hungary and Ukraine, but we pick them over Russia simply because it lets us net Russia in. I really do question, what do people want instead of Putin? The Alternative is much worse if we get a Hardcore Russian Nationalist.

[Adolecent]

Just so you know, all of those are applicable to places like Russia, Hungary and Ukraine, but we pick them over Russia simply because it lets us net Russia in. I really do question, what do people want instead of Putin? The Alternative is much worse if we get a Hardcore Russian Nationalist.

Hungary is part of the EU. Therefore EU-law is dominant over national laws. But before Hungary became en EU member it first had to implement and saveguard all of the aspects i wrote about and "we" monitored developments. You can not compare those 3 countries with eachother.

[Ashnazg]

Funny how Russia has a double standard in this.

Crimea wants to leave Ukraine and join Russia. Fine.
Chechnya wants to leave Russia. Murderise the hell out of the Chechnyans.

Its worth noting that Russia DID give de facto independence to Chechnya in the 90ies, and they only went back and "recaptured" it after the area turned into a murder/kidnap capital of the region.

[Shalcker]

Hungary is part of the EU. Therefore EU-law is dominant over national laws. But before Hungary became en EU member it first had to implement and saveguard all of the aspects i wrote about and "we" monitored developments. You can not compare those 3 countries with eachother.

Same thing was happening in Russia.

We just have alternatives to EU membership and so couldn't be pushed as hard.

[Eliandal]

Wow who would've thought russia would've did anything but keep it?

Of course they will...as long as they hold Crimea and not Ukraine - Russia doesn't pay Billions to transit oil (of which Mr. Trump and co are all part of) to a Black Sea port. Thinking this was because Crimeans wanted to be part of Russia is far too simplistic!

[NED funded]

Why suddenly? It's always ok. It's ok because it's unavoidable. It's the NORM. It's life. It's not perfect. Only children believe in a perfect world without corruption.



There are grades, but no one knows the exact grades. Anyone who claims to know is an idiot or a shill.

1. Are you really defending corruption? Corruption is not ok, hence we condemn it and try to fight it.

2. We have index thay gives us a general picture.

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The Difference is Putin has shown to be rather Western-friendly and a much more benevolent Dictator than other potential candidates. I am not shocked people like you want to Warhawk Putin out when he's simply not an Issue.

As for Crimea, the Ukraine was a corrupt system that had Russian minorities attacked and classed as second class citizens, I see no issue in Crimea VOTING for the chance to join back with Russia.

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By that logic, Crimea would never be allowed to join Russia because the corrupt Ukraine government is vastly anti Russian.

What does Crimea have to do with corruption in Russia? Besides Putin being more benevolent does not justify his corruption.

[Shalcker]

1. Are you really defending corruption?

There are diminishing returns to fighting corruption, and "bearable" levels depend on society.

You can have successful society with corruption. You don't have to be 100% efficient and corruption-free to have decent life.

2. We have index thay gives us a general picture.

Indexes that seems to be mostly created based on "expert opinion" rather then objective indicators.

And sadly expert opinion gets tainted by media.

[Deleted]

If someone would've stood up to Hitler when he annexed the Sudetenland 63 million people wouldn't have died.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudetenland

ok, and how do you think Hitler would have reacted ?

[Seidhe]

Feel free to come over here and share those rumors with actual people living here, but be prepared to have your face smashed into pavement.

Typical Быдло forced by inner propaganda.

[Acidz]

If Russia refuses to give back Crimea, then it seems time to retake Kaliningrad for our German friends.

[Natylyaz]

ok, and how do you think Hitler would have reacted ?

He would have yelled very loudly and gone home.
Germany had only recently remilitarised, whereas France had kept her modernised army in decent shape.
Moreover, Czech had very good fortifications and a decent army to stand against Germany alongside France.
USSR was not friend with Germany in 1938, more with France (not sure anymore when their relations deteriorated). The German-Soviet pact came in 1939.

[Adolecent]

There being corruption in the world does not make corruption suddenly ok as many Putinistans seem to think. Also there being a difference of grade, Russia is magnitudes more corrupt than other nations in Europe and the USA. Unless you are willing to put Russia at the level of developing nations.

Why suddenly? It's always ok. It's ok because it's unavoidable. It's the NORM. It's life. It's not perfect. Only children believe in a perfect world without corruption.

Sad story "bro"...

The reality is that NOT every corner of the world is as corrupt as your country. Transparancy rapport 2016:



(yellow is very clean, dark red is highly corrupt)
http://www.transparency.org/news/fea...ons_index_2016

And i can tell you it feels great(!) to live in a country were you know and feel your rights are being protected.

[Elim Garak]

1. Are you really defending corruption? Corruption is not ok, hence we condemn it and try to fight it.

I am defending corruption in the same way one would defend CO2 emissions of a human being.
Only idiots fight corruption with a goal to destroy it.
People only fight corruption when it's out of hand and they fight it until it's back in the hand.
And of course different groups of people have different tolerance levels of corruption.
Basic stuff really. Did you really not know that?

2. We have index thay gives us a general picture.

No, they give you an opinion, a diagnosis based off a photograph of a patient, I hope you get the metaphor.
And of course as everything human they are heavily biased.
Indexes are for index-minded people.

[NED funded]

There are diminishing returns to fighting corruption, and "bearable" levels depend on society.

You can have successful society with corruption. You don't have to be 100% efficient and corruption-free to have decent life.

Indexes that seems to be mostly created based on "expert opinion" rather then objective indicators.

And sadly expert opinion gets tainted by media.

1. Like what? Corrupt politicians do not have incentives to act in the best interest of their people, I can hardly see this as a positive.
2. You are going to have to prove their methodology wrong then.

[Elim Garak]

Sad story "bro"...

The reality is that NOT every corner of the world is as corrupt as your country. Transparancy rapport 2016

This is irrelevant biased opinion piece from people who know nothing.
Why do you trust them? Did they paint your country yellowish?

[Independent voter]

Hitler annexed the Sudetenland, 63 million people died when nobody stood up to him, about a 1/3rd of those being Russian.

Putin annexes Crimea, if no one stands up to him, billions could die. Never roll over and expose your soft underbelly to a bully, history shows it leads to war.