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  1. #1

    Vaccine Safety Challenge

    In a textbook case of money can’t buy you critical thinking, anti-vaxxer Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and actor Robert De Niro are offering $100,000 dollars to anyone who can prove that vaccines are safe for children and pregnant women. The claim is that vaccines contain Thimerosal, a preservative with traces of mercury. Thimerosal has not been used in children's vaccines in almost two decades.

    I’m vaccinated, healthy, and I've never developed measles. Are you vaccinated? Great, we are living proof that vaccines are safe. According to the World Health Organization (WHO), 85 percent of children have been vaccinated against measles in the world, so according to anti-vaxxers, most of humanity is in terrible danger.

    Vaccines don’t cause autism. There was one study that suggested it and it was thoroughly debunked. The disgraced author Andrew Wakefield is now trying to milk the anti-vaxxer cow by making himself a victim.

    But even if vaccines caused autism (and they really, really don’t), the anti-vaxxer movement prefers death over a neurodevelopmental disorder. If you don’t vaccinate your kids, you are going to get people killed. Being an anti-vaxxer is choosing death.

    It could be your own kid like the incredibly unfortunate case of a Spanish boy a few years ago. It might be a baby cousin who’s too young to be vaccinated or has medical reasons for not being vaccinated. It could be your mom battling cancer and going through chemotherapy with a suppressed immune system. More likely it will be strangers.

    Widespread vaccination generates herd immunity. People who are vaccinated are keeping the ones who can’t be vaccinated safe. According to the WHO, between 2000 and 2015, measles vaccinations saved over 20 million children, and yet millions have died since and are still dying. They could have been saved.

    The anti-vaxxers' body of evidence is made of dubious and often completely misleading studies. Even their claim about the rise of autism has to be taken with a grain of salt. Scientists and medical practitioners working with autistic individuals consider the rise dependent on changes in diagnostic guidelines and awareness. There’s no compelling evidence for an underlying change to the actual prevalence.

    Kennedy met with president Trump last month to discuss the matter, and just last week 350 medical associations led by the American Academy of Pediatrics sent the president a letter declaring their “unequivocal support for the safety of vaccines.”

    Anti-vaxxers like to do these kinds of stunts, but hopefully this will end like the last one. In that case, German anti-vaxxer Stefan Lanka was forced to pay €100,000 ($106,300 then) by a court after he made a similar bet. So if you want to take money from Mr. Kennedy, you have our blessings.
    http://www.iflscience.com/editors-bl...beyond-stupid/
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  2. #2
    I hate anti-vaxxers. They are just overly ignorant. If I want acting classes, yeah, sure I will ask Robert de Niro. But if I want advise on what is safe to put in my body to defeat diseases, I will ask a medical professional.

    Oh and thimerosal hasn't really been used in vaccines since summer 2001.

  3. #3
    No vaccine is 100% safe. They don't contain this mercury anymore, but side effects on the vaccines clearly state that it could result in serious complications even death. To pretend they're 100% safe is ridiculous. Vaccines are generally safe, and I have been vaccinated and so have my children. But to pretend like there are no risks is flat-out wrong. This is why I am against straight-up making them mandatory. Incentivize the crap out of them, and encourage people to be vaccinated. But don't make it mandatory. That's not a path I wish to go down...

    Why else would the government have made The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, which still sees use today?
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Symphonic View Post
    No vaccine is 100% safe. They don't contain this mercury anymore, but side effects on the vaccines clearly state that it could result in serious complications even death. To pretend they're 100% safe is ridiculous. Vaccines are generally safe, and I have been vaccinated and so have my children. But to pretend like there are no risks is flat-out wrong.
    I bet you put as much thought when you drink a glass of water, huh? "There's a chance this water could be infected with ebola, or I could choke on it."

  5. #5
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Symphonic View Post
    Why else would the government have made The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, which still sees use today?
    Why would you have car insurance for a car you have no intention of wrecking?

  6. #6
    That reminds me, I need to get a tetanus booster at some point...

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Symphonic View Post
    Incentivize the crap out of them, and encourage people to be vaccinated. But don't make it mandatory. That's not a path I wish to go down...
    But that's not how things work. We can't just leave public health issues up to a choice, because there will always be tons of people who choose not to participate. Herd immunity only works if a certain high percentage of people are vaccinated, and since people - especially in the U.S. - tend toward the myopically selfish viewpoint of, "it doesn't/won't affect me", there's too much risk involved in leaving it up to choice.

    Besides, the government currently doesn't make any vaccine mandatory. But many school districts do, and that's perfectly within their right.
    "Lack of information on your part does not constitute bias on mine."


  8. #8
    The Insane Kujako's Avatar
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    I don't know... on the one hand, we have science and logic. But on the other hand, we have the opinion of someone I masterbated to in high-school. So I'm torn!
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

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  9. #9
    This is stupid regardless. They're proven safe by the vast history of vaccines being used and not being shown to cause autism. It's a shifting of the burden of proof; it's on anti-vaxxers to prove, scientifically, that they are harmful.

  10. #10
    I am Murloc!
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    pfft, i was vaccinated against almost everything in my younger years and i'm alive and kicking !

    starting with poliomyelitis on day 2 of my existence, followed by diphteria-pertussis-tetanus and of course measles and what else is not-so-pleasant to children. it was just mandatory here when i was young, no fucks given by parents.

    where to claim my 100.000 $ award ?

  11. #11
    The claim that Thimerosal is dangerous just because it is a compound that has mercury is so stupid. Yes mercury is highly toxic. But pure sodium if exposed to water will explode and chlorine is a very poisonous gas if you combine the two together you get table salt.

  12. #12
    I've been vaccinated. No ill effects, so, where's my 100k anti-vaxxers? Send it over!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

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    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  13. #13
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommo View Post
    Wonder at what point you can hold people responsible for the endangerment of others.
    The person who wrote the anti-vaxxer study had his medical license revoked, He also filed suit against one of the people that denounced him officially, lost, and had to pay both sides' court costs. And his documentary was thrown out of a film festival, by DeNiro. I'd say that counts, a bit.

  14. #14
    All I ask is that people understand vaccines, what they do, what the ACTUAL risks are and whether you're medically able to take them. But I also understand that even this is too much to ask for people dead set against them. Anti-vaxxers themselves don't bother me, it's the zealot mentality behind movements like this that infuriate me because rather than be somewhat open minded and willing to discuss and learn opposing views or accept information that may conflict with what you've been taught they put up a wall and call people who actually THINK and LEARN the stupid ones.

    Nothing is 100%, there are grey areas, it's the people that insist on there being no grey area/ no room for discussion that piss me off.

  15. #15
    Even if I bought into the whole anti-vacc thing I would still weigh the risk and have my children Vaccinated.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Vaccines are effectively not mandatory right now though and we were doing fine until this recent trend. That would suggest it is how things work and public education combined with a general fear of illness and death are adequate already.
    Generally yes, but I view every mandatory rule/regulation/law from the perspective that it's taken someone(s) screwing something up to a degree that those regulations become necessary. The "way to ruin it for everyone else" effect. The anti-vaxx movement might be that screw-up that necessitates mandatory vaccinations.

    If we could trust that people will always do what's in their and other's best interests without having the need to regulate things like this, then that would be great. But people's propensity for self-delusion against all contrarian fact is mighty.
    "Lack of information on your part does not constitute bias on mine."


  17. #17
    Banned monkmastaeq's Avatar
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    It's sad when Penn and Teller are able to provide better info about vaccinations than any other source

  18. #18
    The Insane Kujako's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by monkmastaeq View Post
    It's sad when Penn and Teller are able to provide better info about vaccinations than any other source
    I remember that episode.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

    -Kujako-

  19. #19
    Banned monkmastaeq's Avatar
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    yeah, that's broken down into simple terms people understand. Yeah vaccines may cause some deaths and other complications but its a far cry off from where we would be without them (no comfort to the parents affected of course)

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    I'd take this current trend as a symptom of a greater problem that isn't addressed seriously: scientific illiteracy.
    Completely agreed. Illiteracy in many subjects, not just scientific, coupled with a saturation of incorrect opinions masquerading as fact, and a general lack of critical analysis tools.

    Really illustrates how badly reforms are needed in our education system. Rather than rote memorization, and training children to be expert test takers, we need more focus on critical thinking, analysis, research, and scientific methods. This applies to civics, history, and economics, as well.
    "Lack of information on your part does not constitute bias on mine."


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