Would an AP cap each week work?

[grexly75]

Not really in favor of a cap myself, but there are ways to do it that doesn't really affect that many people negatively. Personally, I still wish that AP was a single resource that you put into a weapon and upon changing artifacts you get all of it refunded. What this does is allow people to play whatever spec they want, without feeling even more punished for not actually putting AP into that particular trait. I don't think a lot of people realize how much this hurts people who have multiple healing, or DPS specs, especially those that are massively different depending on an encounter. Imagine for a moment you picked 'x' spec and it was shit on a particular encounter or it was nerfed heavily? Well, unless you did 2x the work of somebody who only has a single DPS spec (in addition to having legendary items, and proper relics in that weapon to begin with) you're going to be pretty far behind when you change to a different artifact that it's likely not even worth changing specs. This is primarily my issue with AP. If AP was bound to the entire class and not specialization specific, I wouldn't have even made this thread to have this discussion.

The main premise is that talking about limiting anything has never gone down well, you suggest having a cap is a great but then you say you do not like having said cap make up your flaming mind.. And to your bit where you are talking about how it hurts healing and dps specs once your weapon is at level 35 the direction you go is only one way and the only way to change is via getting better and or different relics or via your characters own set of talents..

[Raelbo]

You realize, at least I hope the majority of people do, that Legion actually has a decent amount of things to do outside of just AP? M+ alone, even if you take AP out of the picture is essentially an area of the game that you can do as much as you want in a given week. Depending on the difficulty you do, you don't have to get that lucky to get upgrades. Regardless it's endless content, something you can always do with just 5 people. Outside of that, unlike previous expansion old raids are actually somewhat worthwhile (albeit you need to be lucky) and you still have to login every 3 days to at least do your WQ. Is AP the only thing that people like out of all of those things? Personally I find it, in it's current implementation one of worst offenders of new systems added to the game. You have relevant dungeon content this expansion, emissaries, and reason to actually push a decently high M+ key each week. Even without AP, that's way more than we had in pretty much every other expansion.

And this is why a cap on AP would be a bad thing. AP is an open-ended reward for playing the game. It is not, and should not, be the goal of everything we do. Putting a cap on AP would very quickly become a reason to stop doing the things we like and push us to instead focus on the things that are the most beneficial.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

No. Putting a cap on things makes it feel mandatory to hit that number each week and it feels horrible. Not having a cap makes it so you can do as much or as little as you want in a given week.

Yeah, this would be my concern.

If you set the cap too low, too many players will feel frustrated by not having a way to advance their characters when they log in.
If you set the cap too high, it won't accomplish anything.
If you set it somewhere in the middle, it becomes something mandatory that all raiders feel obligated to hit every week.

I do understand why some are asking for a cap. Just not sure what Blizz could do that would actually make things better. I think those suggesting that mature players need to regulate themselves is probably what needs to happen.

[Raelbo]

I do understand why some are asking for a cap. Just not sure what Blizz could do that would actually make things better.

The way they implement AK and escalating AP costs per trait is their control mechanism. It slows down the progression of the guys at the front of the pack and speeds up the progression of the guys at the back.

Essentially it creates a reason for people to stop trying to chase infinite AP, because the more of it you get the less return you get for your effort, while at the same time allowing those who put in the extra effort to gain some advantage.

Simply put, if you're in a competitive guild, it's worth putting in 2-4 times the effort of the average casual player towards gathering AP. But it's not worth putting in 10 times the effort. In the end it's exactly as you say: Mature players need to regulate themselves.

[Nayami]

Personally I just clear all my weekly WoW stuff (raids, weekly mythic+, nightbane run, emissary quests) to gain AP, which are things I would be doing even if AP didn't exist. So for me personally, it doesn't even feel like I'm grinding anything. I just play the content that I want to play and my AP gradually increases, easy. No way in hell I'm going to burn myself out for a marginal increase, simply not worth it since you'll end up hating the game and making threads about how much of a grind fest Legion is, when it reality it isn't and you just make it out to be.

[Deleted]

I think then players would really feel forced to cap their weapons for the week. And it would be horrible for running alts. Now you need to cap every weapon for every spec you wanna play every week, and if you don't you fall behind. Right now the way it is, you can just play what you want, and the more you invest, the more you get rewarded. You don't have to worry about wasting your cap for the week. Right now is fine. Raiders need to learn how to control themselves.

[Deleted]

Nah, cause there's nothing worse then hitting a cap and being JUST shy of the next thing, the valor cap was horrible.

The valor cap was perfect.

- - - Updated - - -

I think then players would really feel forced to cap their weapons for the week. And it would be horrible for running alts. Now you need to cap every weapon for every spec you wanna play every week, and if you don't you fall behind. Right now the way it is, you can just play what you want, and the more you invest, the more you get rewarded. You don't have to worry about wasting your cap for the week. Right now is fine. Raiders need to learn how to control themselves.

You fall behind on alts regardless, having a cap would make it less likely because you could split the weekly cap over an entire week.

[Deleted]

So the kids nowadays are so bad at selfcontrol, that they need systems in place to stop them repeating tasks?

I'm Ok with the current situation. No need to limit me; i'm good enought at that myself. :P

[Phantombeard]

NO !!!!!!!!!!! Dammit, I can't take it anymore...GRRRRRRRRR!!!! Make it so when you use your AP all 3 artifact weapons get it. For F@($ sake. That way you only have to level 1 weapon to have 54 traits. Why is this so hard to understand. More than anything ppl love to switch specs during the game if more than anything to keep from getting bored. When your stuck to only playing 1 spec of 1 class your WOW experience is extremely diminished. More than anything though 99% of people just don't have the time to devote to leveling all the weapons. If Blizzard hasn't cut their own throats by now there may still be time for them to save their own ass. Hotfix this now!!!!!!

[Nayami]

So the kids nowadays are so bad at selfcontrol, that they need systems in place to stop them repeating tasks?

I'm Ok with the current situation. No need to limit me; i'm good enought at that myself. :P

Maybe they should check out the parental controls to limit their gameplay Those still exist right?

[Detan]

Why don't they just put diminishing returns after a certain amount of AP grinded per week. That way you can always do something, but if you wanna go nonstop it'll stop being worth it eventually and doing something different will seem more appealing.

[Raelbo]

Why don't they just put diminishing returns after a certain amount of AP grinded per week. That way you can always do something, but if you wanna go nonstop it'll stop being worth it eventually and doing something different will seem more appealing.

They already do this in effect with Artifact Knowledge and escalating trait costs.

[Deleted]

I don't believe a cap would really be the solution to the issues raised. Artifact Power should have just capped after the first 34 (or 35 for the 5%) traits in a spec. This "paragon" system sounds great, you always have something to work on, throughout the expansion, but in reality once you've killed 3 or 4 bosses in Mythic Nighthold (Which a lot of guilds have at this point) you need to have every single raid member at 54 traits to break that brick wall.
This means it's not a "throughout the expansion thing" but rather a "Maw of Souls simulator until progression" type thing.

[Tojara]

The main premise is that talking about limiting anything has never gone down well, you suggest having a cap is a great but then you say you do not like having said cap make up your flaming mind.. And to your bit where you are talking about how it hurts healing and dps specs once your weapon is at level 35 the direction you go is only one way and the only way to change is via getting better and or different relics or via your characters own set of talents..

Um, the difference between somebody being 54 and being 35 is absolutely massive and a giant fucking barrier to anybody wanting to swap specs based on encounter differences. You realize 9.5% throughput and 14.25% stamina is absolutely massive. Once you start adding legendary items and relics to the equation you have an absolutely gargantuan mountain to overcome when trying to change to a difference spec. So no, it's not just about getting better and changing your fucking talents lol. Yeah personal skill is always part of the equation, but if you're comparing a fire mage to a frost mage and an encounter is AoE, why play a frost mage. Not only are you likely pigeonholed into legendary items, and likely have a higher iLvL weapon via relics because you 'main' fire, you also have a huge advantage trait wise. It begs the question, and this applies to mostly everybody in the game except those who actually play so much they erase the AP advantage.. why even have those other specs?

I never once said that having a cap is great and then changed my mind, I just outlined reasons why it might not be so bad, and reasons why it might be positive direction for the game. All I stated is that if AP was universal, and not limited to a different artifact weapons that this discussion likely wouldn't be needed. My main goal with that argument is to get people to understand how crippling AP can be to people with multiple DPS specs, especially combined with other ways you individualize what you decide to be with your character. In this world, unless you play a metric shitload, you aren't a mage anymore, you're either a frost, fire or arcane mage. Assuming you have 35 traits in 2 specs and 54 in the other, but have only one particular theme of legendary items (which is common for basically 99% of the community), you can probably be anywhere from 30-40% more effective than your other roles depending on your artifact ilvL as well.

I wasn't aware that you can't make a thread about a topic you might not necessarily agree with, but give points as to why it might be a good idea. I guess the world is so black and white that you're only allowed to be in one camp or the other?

[Matthias]

I think Blizzard just needs to throw more favor towards Mythic Raiders. As some who plays casual, I'm loving Legion, every time I log onto my main I have something to do, with an alt that has even more to do. I barely have time to PvP, which hasn't happened since TBC.

That's great for the more casual playerbase. But when you raid Mythic Progression with a team that relies on you to put in 100% it causes issues. A problem with WoW for some time has been not being enough to do outside of raiding. If you raided seriously in the TBC days then you likely have 10 years worth of more responsibility. And many Mythic Raiders may have never experienced needing to put so much time into their mains if they started playing in WoTLK or later.

Farming AP, Legendaries, fishing for Titanforge gear, is fine for me, but I don't put in hours a night Raiding Mythic. Mythic Raiders should have a way of gaining a large amount of AP while raiding Mythic Progression. And perhaps also have a Timeless Coin sort of system to have more control over their upgrades so they don't have to fish for Titanforge procs. Lastly give them a way to target proper legendaries.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

It would and i wish there was one, like valor cap of older days.

Valor didn't have a cap in the old days. The weekly cap for Valor was introduced partly in Cata (cap on Valor earned from doing daly HCs, but not from raids), and then a regular weekly cap in MoP. There was no cap on the amount of Valor earned in TBC and WotLK, only the amount of stuff you could kill per day/week.

[Detan]

I think Blizzard just needs to throw more favor towards Mythic Raiders. As some who plays casual, I'm loving Legion, every time I log onto my main I have something to do, with an alt that has even more to do. I barely have time to PvP, which hasn't happened since TBC.

That's great for the more casual playerbase. But when you raid Mythic Progression with a team that relies on you to put in 100% it causes issues. A problem with WoW for some time has been not being enough to do outside of raiding. If you raided seriously in the TBC days then you likely have 10 years worth of more responsibility. And many Mythic Raiders may have never experienced needing to put so much time into their mains if they started playing in WoTLK or later.

Farming AP, Legendaries, fishing for Titanforge gear, is fine for me, but I don't put in hours a night Raiding Mythic. Mythic Raiders should have a way of gaining a large amount of AP while raiding Mythic Progression. And perhaps also have a Timeless Coin sort of system to have more control over their upgrades so they don't have to fish for Titanforge procs. Lastly give them a way to target proper legendaries.

Yes, let's put even more favor/thought into 2% of the total playerbase lol. Mythic/top end raiders don't need any more attention.

[Raelbo]

This "paragon" system sounds great, you always have something to work on, throughout the expansion, but in reality once you've killed 3 or 4 bosses in Mythic Nighthold (Which a lot of guilds have at this point) you need to have every single raid member at 54 traits to break that brick wall.
This means it's not a "throughout the expansion thing" but rather a "Maw of Souls simulator until progression" type thing.

People had nearly 5 months to get their artifacts to level 54 in time for Mythic Nighthold. There was absolutely no need for any kind of ridiculous Maw of Souls spamming.

[shyguybman]

People had nearly 5 months to get their artifacts to level 54 in time for Mythic Nighthold. There was absolutely no need for any kind of ridiculous Maw of Souls spamming.

Once you're AK25 it's not that bad. I got to 54 traits the week NH came out and I certainly didn't grind. The difference I think between us and Serenity/Exorsus etc is they probably did it on multiple characters/specs. My 2nd weapon is 44 traits now and I expect in like a month of casually doing m+ & wq it will be 54.

[Soulzar]

For me it doesn't matter because all I do is play a tank, but I'm sure many rogues, warlocks, hunters, mages, warriors and DKs know what it feels like to feel pretty far behind because you can't potentially easily swap to another spec.

A lot of these systems currently in the game are fine (in my eyes) as a standalone systems. Legendary items, AP, relics and so forth are all decent systems that I think add value to the game. I realize they push class fantasy, and trying to stick to one specialization, but I think all of those systems listed above actually hurt some enjoyment of the game when you combine them altogether with the model of trying to stick it out into one specialization.

First several paragraphs of your post are really well put together. I agree a lot with this section. As a pure DPS I have always enjoyed swapping specs, be it between what I main for a given tier, or fight to fight if one specs toolkit plays better to the encounter mechanics. The deeper we get into the expansion, the more i'm feeling the tax of the gap created by Artifacts. A few points in %dmg traits, no big deal... a few ilvl lower relics.. or not optional traits... no big deal... but once you start compounding these things (and include legendaries into the mix) the gap starts to become large to the point where swapping to a spec that plays better mechanically to the fight, is not yielding better results... and as a pure I am missing that.

I was mains pec Demo until 7.1.5, obtained 2 dps legendaries and one utility legendary while specced for Demo. Now in 7.1.5 I am enjoying the changes to Affliction and have changed my loot spec. About a month ago I got my 4th legendary and thankfully while not one of the best, it was a DPS legendary, but I am currently still using a Demo ring as a stat stick for my second legendary while playing aff. With bad luck protection ramping down as you obtain more legendaries, I know the gap between them is going to start getting longer and longer. Even though I have two Demo dps legendaries, my Demo artifact is now significantly behind on both AP and quality Relics.

That's where I stand now. Where will I be in a few months? If Destro ends up getting some changes that make it both strong and more enjoyable for me to play, i may want to main it for 7.2.. or go Demo again. Where will I be with my Legendaries? how long will i need to stay Aff loot spec to get the ones I need for this tier? When can I change if ever, to get ones to allow me to be more viable with Destruction... or go back to Demo to get the new ones that came out in 7.1.5? There is just too much time gap between acquisition of these things to plan decisions like this, and that gap gets bigger every time change in the game causes me to question what spec i am playing.

Individually I love all of this stuff, but its compounding itself into a mess.