DH opener? for CB and Demonic

[GetCrunk]

Hi, i want to see what opener you guys like to use and why

So far for CB build i see 2 types of opener
1: Pre-pot>Meta>FB>Nemesis>CB>FOTI>DS>normal rotation
2: Pre-pot>FR>FB>Meta>Nemesis>CB>FOTI>DS>normal rotation

I personally use (1), because (2) adds a GCD by FR and the lost of 2-4 seconds of the Pre-pot

Demonic:
i dont know any other then my opener (i will like to find a new one )

1: Pre-pot>FR>FOTI>Demon's Bite to 90+ fury>EB>FR (for momentum)>DS>Annihilation>Demon's Bite to 60+ fury>Annihilation>FR (for momentum)>DS>Demon's Bite to 90+ fury>Meta>normal rotation>MetaEnd>Demon's Bite to 90+>EB>normal rotation
(i delay FOTI and use EB in Meta just if i know a group of adds gonna spawn like Skorpyron fight)

[ufta]

I try to get a full fury bar, or as full as I can before i go into meta.
I have the anger ring too.

That seems like a bad idea, especially if hero/lust is popped on the pull. I'd think it would be too easy to end up overcapping/wasting fury, and even if you didn't waste any fury, what you're losing by doing that is wasting pre-pot uptime and giving away several seconds of hero uptime being buffed by nemesis.
How long does it typically take to get a full bar off the pull?

For the record, my opener is exactly like the OP's #1

[Deleted]

Mine:
Pre-pot > fel rush+ Felblade > nemesis > pool fury, if takes long blade dance > meta at 80 % fury > chaos blade > fury of the illidary > nonstop spam of DeathSweep>Anhiliation.

[iddqd]

DEMONIC

90+ Fury in the beginning likely is too much as you will cap. EB with Blind Fury generates 105 fury (reduced by haste, i think, but as we arent stacking this, it shouldnt be a big thing): 90 - 50 + 105 = 145. If you are not sporting a lot of +fury relics, you cap.

Question is (i am also playing momentum, not nemesis, as i dont raid at all but just spam m+), is it better to momentum in demonic, or spam annihilation? I tend to do the latter...

[GetCrunk]

Question is (i am also playing momentum, not nemesis, as i dont raid at all but just spam m+), is it better to momentum in demonic, or spam annihilation? I tend to do the latter...

momentum is better for aoe then nemesis especially where in a instance you have more then one type of mobs , nemesis is pure for ST fights.
Story short momentum pulls ahead of nemesis in M+
And you should aim EB in momentum for aoe and BD in ST BD>Annihilation in momentum

[iddqd]

I am aware of momentum > nemesis in AOE, and so in m+, my post was only about the usage of the cooldowns in demonic (= the 8 seconds after EB where we are in meta). Is it better to FR for momentum and have some spells with +20% dmg (problem in m+, especially singletarget, you will loose uptime when FRing out of melee range) or just go for annihilation.

We also have to consider the fury usage as there are different situations. Your usage is perfect, if you would lack the fury for exactly one annihilation (in demonic), so using FR isnt a loss anyway. If you are overflowing with fury (crit luck, demon bite luck) you have enough fury to spam DS/Anni all the way, in this case i think wasting time to FR and get out of reach is a damage loss.

[GetCrunk]

I am aware of momentum > nemesis in AOE, and so in m+, my post was only about the usage of the cooldowns in demonic (= the 8 seconds after EB where we are in meta). Is it better to FR for momentum and have some spells with +20% dmg (problem in m+, especially singletarget, you will loose uptime when FRing out of melee range) or just go for annihilation.

We also have to consider the fury usage as there are different situations. Your usage is perfect, if you would lack the fury for exactly one annihilation (in demonic), so using FR isnt a loss anyway. If you are overflowing with fury (crit luck, demon bite luck) you have enough fury to spam DS/Anni all the way, in this case i think wasting time to FR and get out of reach is a damage loss.

Always try to keep a more then 60% up time on momentum, just do not get momentum up if you dont have fury for BD and CSx2
Just get over 60 fury FR or VR and do the rotation

Ps: Demonic Appetite pulls ahead Demon Blades in Demonic build, you do not depend on auto attack Rng to get fury and the soul Fragment spawns reduce the cd on EB

[Extremity]

>60% uptime on Momentum isn't really a realistic goal anymore with the extra charge removed from Blur. Fel Rush is a ten second cooldown and Momentum has 4 seconds of uptime; that means 40% is your mathematical best (8 seconds per 20, or 4 per 10) from Fel Rush. VR is not going to make up for 20+%. This is why Nemesis became so much better for ST; not only is it a 5% higher damage buff, but a guaranteed 50% uptime for zero effort while Momentum is only 40% from Fel Rush.

You can go higher with Vengeful Retreat, but not 60%. If the math in my head is right, with PERFECT VR uptime on top of PERFECT Fel Rush uptime you might hit 56% if you've got a perfect 16% uptime contributed by VR?

And as for the GIF above, the dude's got a wall right there. I get that he was trying to make an example for raid encounters, but any time you can have something tanked against a wall, VRing into that is going to be great for you.

[GetCrunk]

>60% uptime on Momentum isn't really a realistic goal anymore with the extra charge removed from Blur. Fel Rush is a ten second cooldown and Momentum has 4 seconds of uptime; that means 40% is your mathematical best (8 seconds per 20, or 4 per 10) from Fel Rush. VR is not going to make up for 20+%. This is why Nemesis became so much better for ST; not only is it a 5% higher damage buff, but a guaranteed 50% uptime for zero effort while Momentum is only 40% from Fel Rush.

You can go higher with Vengeful Retreat, but not 60%. If the math in my head is right, with PERFECT VR uptime on top of PERFECT Fel Rush uptime you might hit 56% if you've got a perfect 16% uptime contributed by VR?

And as for the GIF above, the dude's got a wall right there. I get that he was trying to make an example for raid encounters, but any time you can have something tanked against a wall, VRing into that is going to be great for you.

Is my bad with the momentum up time 40% is now, but the dude in the gif does not hit the wall the VR is 15 yards from one side to another to almost any boss, and are a lot of boss that you can use the environment to stop the charge of FR or VR , when you do a high M+ the tank has to tank it where the player can get higher dps if that does not affect the tactics

[Extremity]

Is my bad with the momentum up time 40% is now, but the dude in the gif does not hit the wall the VR is 15 yards from one side to another to almost any boss, and are a lot of boss that you can use the environment to stop the charge of FR or VR , when you do a high M+ the tank has to tank it where the player can get higher dps if that does not affect the tactics

I know he doesn't hit the wall. I'm just saying that you shouldn't forget to use your environment to your advantage whenever possible, not that you can't do it properly without a wall to clip against.

[iddqd]

Always try to keep a more then 60% up time on momentum, just do not get momentum up if you dont have fury for BD and CSx2
Just get over 60 fury FR or VR and do the rotation

Ps: Demonic Appetite pulls ahead Demon Blades in Demonic build, you do not depend on auto attack Rng to get fury and the soul Fragment spawns reduce the cd on EB

Getcrunk, i know the basics about havoc and also momentum. These rules may (or may not) change, when using demonic, because you have windows of 8 seconds where you have to consider whether getting up momentum OR having more annihilations is better, and i am not to sure which is the right answer.

I am also specced into DA, but still, when using FR you often enough lose uptime on your target (especially vs. small hitbox bosses, these are regular in m+). This costs autoattacks and while you can use TG while running back, you maybe lack the fury that a demon's bite would have given you to fit in more annihilations.

This is btw the only thing, why i am not having my Havoc DH as my one and only main. I dont raid (and dont pvp), so i am stuck with world content and mythic+ and this continuous being out of range is a) a loss of damage and b) more important, a real hassle for me and my sense of "fun".

I know that this problem isnt present when fighting large hitbox raid bosses, but this is content i never see.

[GetCrunk]

Getcrunk, i know the basics about havoc and also momentum. These rules may (or may not) change, when using demonic, because you have windows of 8 seconds where you have to consider whether getting up momentum OR having more annihilations is better, and i am not to sure which is the right answer.

I am also specced into DA, but still, when using FR you often enough lose uptime on your target (especially vs. small hitbox bosses, these are regular in m+). This costs autoattacks and while you can use TG while running back, you maybe lack the fury that a demon's bite would have given you to fit in more annihilations.

This is btw the only thing, why i am not having my Havoc DH as my one and only main. I dont raid (and dont pvp), so i am stuck with world content and mythic+ and this continuous being out of range is a) a loss of damage and b) more important, a real hassle for me and my sense of "fun".

I know that this problem isnt present when fighting large hitbox raid bosses, but this is content i never see.

When I don't have the environment to stop my FR or VR I just VR for Momentum EB has a long range FR back in the boss Nuke, but I always prioritize momentum over 1 Annihilation because Momentum+DS is more dmg

[Deleted]

What is "Foil" in the OP?

[iddqd]

What is "Foil" in the OP?

I think he misspelled FOTI there

[GetCrunk]

I think he misspelled FOTI there

Thx I fix it,
I post it from my phone and is hard to type when auto correct is screws every acronym