Yet another threat tread

[Deleted]

As it is established in another thread, Guardian druids have issues maintaining threat.
This was obvious to us when I (BM Monk) keep pulling aggro from my co-tank Guardian druid.
This happened on Krosus, resulting in wipes cuz of debuff stacks getting too high.
It also happened today on Aluriel, just a pain.

I even keep still for a couple of seconds but as soon as I keg smash, tiger palm & blackout kick, I pull aggro.

Would you please take a look at the logs and make some suggestions on how to handle this issue better.

the warcraftlogs report id: DwJ78TPHbya4Y1nc (I am having problems linking)
The issue notably happens on wipe 5 at Aluriel.

[Deleted]

This might be a bug ingame , but the easiest solution would be telling to your co-tank druid to get Omen Threat Meter and taunt when he's dropping too low on aggro , to enstablish controll of the boss.

Recently tanked with a Bear tank in pug and he caused me a lot of trouble (i was on my dk at the time) , Krosus , aswell on Botanist.

[Emerald Archer]

There was a podcast recently with a lot of top warriors, and a complaint was that warriors constantly pulled threat off guardians (Warriors have the highest threat gen atm) And they said if a Guardian druid is losing aggro, it's their own fault, and they are playing incorrectly.

https://youtu.be/N3V6hvYv06k?t=43m4s

This was the podcast.

[Deleted]

Heaven forbid Guardians are bad at something.

Use taunt more.

[Emerald Archer]

Heaven forbid Guardians are bad at something.

Use taunt more.

Great idea, build that DR so when the other tank taunts to do the proper swap, the boss is immune 10/10

[Epoch]

As it is established in another thread, Guardian druids have issues maintaining threat.
This was obvious to us when I (BM Monk) keep pulling aggro from my co-tank Guardian druid.
This happened on Krosus, resulting in wipes cuz of debuff stacks getting too high.
It also happened today on Aluriel, just a pain.

I even keep still for a couple of seconds but as soon as I keg smash, tiger palm & blackout kick, I pull aggro.

Would you please take a look at the logs and make some suggestions on how to handle this issue better.

the warcraftlogs report id: DwJ78TPHbya4Y1nc (I am having problems linking)
The issue notably happens on wipe 5 at Aluriel.

Link an armory, until we can actually see the person's gear who is involved we would just be speculating. My roommate plays a guardian, and she has no problem keeping threat, in fact she makes so much threat that other tanks have a hard time holding aggro.

More than likely your guildie isn't keeping up their cd's and is spamming maul. Don't use maul unless you have excess rage. I'd go so far as to tell you to have your guardian remove Maul from their bar.

Also, that report id isn't working.

This usually happens every expansion or patch - players get comfortable with the rotation / priority of previous tier/expansion/patch and try to continue doing the same thing, even if it is incorrect.

Have your guildie check out the tank thread by Pumpsm8:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...Guide-by-Pumps

[Nevcairiel]

This was obvious to us when I (BM Monk) keep pulling aggro from my co-tank Guardian druid.
This happened on Krosus, resulting in wipes cuz of debuff stacks getting too high..

So, you wiped the group by not controlling your threat then?
Tanking is cooperation, so its the job of both tanks to control at any time who is actively tanking the boss - if you over-aggro, you are as much to blame as the other tank.

As others have said, link proper gear and working logs at the least. However, it is always possible that tanks to different amounts of threat, from something as simple as gear differences to differences in class mechanics.

Personally, I, as a Guardian, co-tank with a demon hunter, and i regularly get close to pulling threat away from him when I can go full out on some bosses. But this can usually be mitigated by only using DPS cooldowns/trinkets when I'm actually actively tanking, and after a few swaps the overall threat level is so high that it usually stops happening.

[bloodmoth13]

I wouldnt mind the entire threat system getting a revamp, its pretty crap atm tbh

[Kikazz]

or the tank ripping threat can donwload omen as well and not be a douchnozzel?

how is it the tank losing threats fault if the other tank keeps ripping.

Suggesting they taunt more is stupid answer due to DR.

offtank or other tank that is non Guardian should watch their threat when they are not meant to be tanking.

[Soulwell]

if a Guardian druid is losing aggro, it's their own fault, and they are playing incorrectly.

https://youtu.be/N3V6hvYv06k?t=43m4s

This was the podcast.

This is actually the funniest shit I've ever seen. If a Druid wants to catweave he drops all threat, if a warrior feels like popping inner rage and shield slams twice you lose threat instantly. Even parsing high it's rather easy to lose threat to any tank even if they're undergeared.

[Emerald Archer]

This is actually the funniest shit I've ever seen. If a Druid wants to catweave he drops all threat, if a warrior feels like popping inner rage and shield slams twice you lose threat instantly. Even parsing high it's rather easy to lose threat to any tank even if they're undergeared.

The only fight where the extra dps from catweaving would matter, is Krosus, and you can't catweave on krosus because of the dot. The damage a warrior would do, not having to worry about threat, will outweigh your catweaving dps anyway.

Seems selfish to go for your small dps gain, over a warriors large dps gain/ability to survive.

But what do I know, and what do these top tank players know. So silly.

[Deleted]

The only fight where the extra dps from catweaving would matter, is Krosus, and you can't catweave on krosus because of the dot. The damage a warrior would do, not having to worry about threat, will outweigh your catweaving dps anyway.

Seems selfish to go for your small dps gain, over a warriors large dps gain/ability to survive.

But what do I know, and what do these top tank players know. So silly.

"these top rank players" ? all i ve seen is a prot warrior saying that prot warrior arent at fault when ripping aggro from a guardian, with a smirk on his face. Thats all you need to conclude there isnt any threat issues with guardian, yes its silly indeed.

The fact is that at similar dps tank should generate similar threat, which is not the case by far for guardians. There is no justification for it, it should be fixed, period.

[Soulwell]

The only fight where the extra dps from catweaving would matter, is Krosus, and you can't catweave on krosus because of the dot. The damage a warrior would do, not having to worry about threat, will outweigh your catweaving dps anyway.

Seems selfish to go for your small dps gain, over a warriors large dps gain/ability to survive.

But what do I know, and what do these top tank players know. So silly.

The extra dps may not matter to you but it adds a skillcap to parsing as a bear without the legs which you obviously know nothing about. If you think guardian threat isn't broken and if you believe what these tanks are saying when they are clearly trolling you're just flat out stupid.

[Emerald Archer]

The extra dps may not matter to you but it adds a skillcap to parsing as a bear without the legs which you obviously know nothing about. You know nothing if you think guardian threat isn't broken and if you believe what these tanks are saying when they are clearly trolling you just flat out stupid.

The fact that you care more about parsing, than you do about progression, shows the kind of player you are. Just because Guardians threat gen should be buffed, doesn't mean that they get a free pass for dropping aggro often.

Honestly.. your personal parses over the raid teams progression.. What a joke.

[Soulwell]

The fact that you care more about parsing, than you do about progression, shows the kind of player you are. Just because Guardians threat gen should be buffed, doesn't mean that they get a free pass for dropping aggro often.

Honestly.. your personal parses over the raid teams progression.. What a joke.

Are you fucking stupid? You can progress and still parse, unless you're simple minded like yourself apparently.

[Emerald Archer]

Are you fucking stupid? You can progress and still parse, unless you're simple minded like yourself apparently.

Of course you can progress and parse, but you're suggesting that your personal parses are of more importance than your team, your other tank, etc.

Also, Tank parses. Lul.

[Deleted]

or the tank ripping threat can donwload omen as well and not be a douchnozzel?

how is it the tank losing threats fault if the other tank keeps ripping.

Suggesting they taunt more is stupid answer due to DR.

offtank or other tank that is non Guardian should watch their threat when they are not meant to be tanking.

This is absolutely the Druid's fault. Looking at their longest Spellblade pull on that log, he did 157k DPS. He's not using Galactic Guardian, but rather using Incarnation, yet never actually cast Incarnation (if he takes Galactic Guardian, it basically plays itself, and is ALWAYS your top damage source, doing a solid 20%+ of your total DPS). Tank DPS absolutely matters, especially if you are having threat issues.

Over the course of the first 3:45 of that longest pull (using this time frame so can directly compare it to my logs, I'm 905 so better gear, but not much more haste, so casts should be about the same), he cast Mangle 23 times and Thrash 25 times, compared to my 37 of both and he cast Pulverize only 8 times. Thats a Mangle every 9.8 seconds (it has a 6 second cooldown), a Thrash every 9 seconds (also 6 second cooldown) and a Pulverize every 28.1 seconds (you cast it every 2 thrashs, so ~12 second cooldown essentially).

Ignore comments telling him to cat weave. Its a huge DPS increase to do so, but its also very complex and takes quite alot of concentration to do so without screwing up tank tactics. Tell him to keep his Resto Affinity until he is comfortable not dying, then change to Balance affinity on absolutely any fight with adds. Its a significant cleave DPS increase if you can hit mobs far away (Eyes on Guldan being the absolute perfect example).

tl;dr - Tell him to take Galactic Guardian, not Incarnation. Tell him to press Swipe less, its his lowest priority ability. His DPS will sky rocket and your threat issues will reverse and become you struggling to keep aggro from him (I rip from my DH co-tank all the time)

[Deleted]

Before I say anything else, because there is a lot of comments down there that hark on about it: Tanking is a team effort and you have to play well together.

On the other hand, your cotank is just doing 100k less dps then you, which is frankly unacceptable. If I limit your 5th wipe on Aluriel to the time when he was alive, he does around 170k dps, while you do 270k. I can't hold threat against another tank who does more than 50% more damage. It would actually be pretty silly if you could do that. If we just look at boss damage, then the difference is just 50k, which is still around 30% of his damage.

So short answer, your mate has to get better. Too little thrash usage, especially when running Pulverize. Skilled Incarn and never used it, usage of the Artefact weapon is better than the others but still not good. Too few Pulverize casts, the list goes on.

OH AND FOR FUCKS SAKE, HE DIDN'T USE FRIGGIN MOONFIRE!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a class balance issue, this is learn to play and nothing else.

- - - Updated - - -

This is actually the funniest shit I've ever seen. If a Druid wants to catweave he drops all threat, if a warrior feels like popping inner rage and shield slams twice you lose threat instantly. Even parsing high it's rather easy to lose threat to any tank even if they're undergeared.

Catweaving doesn't make you drop threat. Try to go cat while you have aggro, the boss just instagibs you.

- - - Updated - - -

The only fight where the extra dps from catweaving would matter, is Krosus, and you can't catweave on krosus because of the dot. The damage a warrior would do, not having to worry about threat, will outweigh your catweaving dps anyway.

Seems selfish to go for your small dps gain, over a warriors large dps gain/ability to survive.

But what do I know, and what do these top tank players know. So silly.

Krosus isn't the only Boss with a tight enrage, and since you don't drop MoU when going cat you can catweave on Krosus. It is still a risk on the boss, but you can definitely do it. It also helps to do more damage on Anomaly and probably a few other ones, but I'm going to limit my comments to bosses I have been trying on mythic already.

[Puri]

As it is established in another thread, Guardian druids have issues maintaining threat.
This was obvious to us when I (BM Monk) keep pulling aggro from my co-tank Guardian druid.
This happened on Krosus, resulting in wipes cuz of debuff stacks getting too high.
It also happened today on Aluriel, just a pain.

I even keep still for a couple of seconds but as soon as I keg smash, tiger palm & blackout kick, I pull aggro.

Would you please take a look at the logs and make some suggestions on how to handle this issue better.

the warcraftlogs report id: DwJ78TPHbya4Y1nc (I am having problems linking)
The issue notably happens on wipe 5 at Aluriel.

While I agree to what the other player said, it might simply be a l2p issue on the tank druids side.
For convience your report: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/DwJ78TPHbya4Y1nc
Looking at the numbers the druid seems to have problems even reaching or maintaining 150k dps. As you have a threat modificator as tank, dps is the major factor on keeping aggro.
Just comparing to equally geared guarding druids on the same fight in the top 3000 parses he should roughly do double (https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...ardian&page=30).

[Deleted]

Great idea, build that DR so when the other tank taunts to do the proper swap, the boss is immune 10/10

You think that it takes more than 1 extra taunt to hold aggro? Are you even a tank?