Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
... LastLast
  1. #21
    So a robot makes shoes which it sells to people for $10. The robot pays taxes which are handed out to people who use this money to buy shoes?
    .

    "This will be a fight against overwhelming odds from which survival cannot be expected. We will do what damage we can."

    -- Capt. Copeland

  2. #22
    Titan Yunru's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    The Continent of Orsterra
    Posts
    12,392
    Its kinda funny. A company could simply report they only have 2 robots (while in reality they have 50). And they would do that to avoid the tax.
    Don't sweat the details!!!

  3. #23
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    the other
    Posts
    58,334
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    But... no taxation without representation... so...
    Master Mold for congress?

    http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/...20140515071820
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    But... no taxation without representation... so...
    We need Bender to represent the robots.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Him of Many Faces View Post
    what are the basics if it doesn't include food and shelter?
    if you are a socialist, then yes you would think the state must offer both.

    However I believe that whilst the state must ensure that there are laws and controls in place so that everyone can have access to (affordable) property ownership, it is up to people to work to get there. Same for food; the state can offer food vouchers for the poor, but anything beyond basic food, the state should not be there to fill up your trolley with whatever.

  6. #26
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by BloodElf4Life View Post


    Bill Gates gives his thoughts about automation and workers in the somewhat close future: Robots who takes jobs from humans should pay taxes.

    While I highly recommend to watch the video (it's short, just a little bit faster than two minutes), here's a TL;DR:

    If humans helped fund these robots through taxes, it is therefore only logical that a tax be applied on the robots, as some kind of Robot taxes. Considering all the money that the industries will save through automation, a tax will be a minimal cut in their budget while allowing living workers to find something new and/or refresh themselves in a new domain.

    I'm personally glad that we're taking a more direct focus on automation. It's becoming imminent, so making sure we're doing it right is (and should be) one of humanity's main priority.
    It's not a bad idea at all. But you know what the US will say when it hears the word "taxes". Complete, stubborn refusal.

  7. #27
    In a world without jobs, sure. Otherwise you are discentivising innovation.

  8. #28
    Pit Lord Wiyld's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Secret Underground Lair
    Posts
    2,347
    Quote Originally Posted by Yunru View Post
    Its kinda funny. A company could simply report they only have 2 robots (while in reality they have 50). And they would do that to avoid the tax.
    Manufacturers already have to get certified to operate....just add a robot count to that process.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gillern View Post
    "IM LOOKING AT A THING I DONT LIKE, I HAVE THE OPTION TO GO AWAY FROM IT BUT I WILL LOOK MORE AND COMPLAIN ABOUT THE THING I DONT LIKE BECAUSE I DONT LIKE IT, NO ONE IS FORCING ME TO SEARCH FOR THIS THING OR LOOK AT THIS THING OR REMAIN LOOKING AT THIS THING BUT I AM ANYWAY, ITS OFFENDS ME! ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME!!!"
    Troof

  9. #29
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by psyquest View Post
    if you are a socialist, then yes you would think the state must offer both.

    However I believe that whilst the state must ensure that there are laws and controls in place so that everyone can have access to (affordable) property ownership, it is up to people to work to get there. Same for food; the state can offer food vouchers for the poor, but anything beyond basic food, the state should not be there to fill up your trolley with whatever.
    how do you have access to affordable ownership in a world where the 1% owns the robots and the 99% has no job and no income?

    or as a more right-now scenario: how do financially survive until you can get a new job if you just got replaced by a robot, and most jobs that require similar or less education are also being replaced by robots, if not for the states help?
    Last edited by mmoc982b0e8df8; 2017-02-17 at 02:59 PM.

  10. #30
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    the other
    Posts
    58,334
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    We need Bender to represent the robots.
    Wouldn't it be Mom of MomCorp?
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Delana View Post
    And if you think this future is a glorious utopia, you're kidding yourself. It instead is the most nihilistic and inhuman of futures.
    Having to do specific types of labor (manufacturing or working in a fast food kitchen) isn't necessary for the human condition, nor does it always improve upon the lives of those who do that work.

    Something like a Universal Basic Income would have to come with a massive shift in society to how we view our own purpose. A shift that would have to start from ground up, from education. We would have to nurture curiosity, creativity, philanthropy etc to give ourselves purpose.

    What if all you want to do your whole life is to travel the world and surf? Why not?

    What if you want to be an artists (even tho objectively speaking you are not very good)? Go for it.

    And so on. People don't only do things because they need to, people can have a wide range of other motivators that we could nurture.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Yunru View Post
    Its kinda funny. A company could simply report they only have 2 robots (while in reality they have 50). And they would do that to avoid the tax.
    Until your ass gets investigated by the IRS and you get thrown in jail.


    Anyway the whole robots taking over human jobs, if we think about the extreme of this aka Robots grow food, manufacture products in every sector, run utilites, housekeeping etc. First of all whos paying to keep these robots working? The companies that use them right? Ok now how are these companies going to make money when no one has a job? You just cut off the lower and middle class familes from making money so whos going to buy the products? Whos going to buy the food? Who? Who? Who?

    Robots dont make sense in terms of them taking all the jobs. Even from a company perspective your just going to shoot yourself in the foot once everyone starts doing it. Your going to impoverish society. Unless of course you make everything free, which again doesnt make sense for the companies using the robots because then they would lose money.

  13. #33
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Oberyn Martell View Post
    Why are you leaving out:

    basic food & drink
    basic home
    basic sex
    basic feeling of accomplishment

    ?
    The first two are covered by amenities.

    The last two are the responsibility of the individual.

  14. #34
    Mechagnome
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Somewhere in the mountains, idk.
    Posts
    634
    Quote Originally Posted by psyquest View Post
    I dont believe the state is to provide you with any of those. The state should offering the basics, the rest is up to you to go get it.

    Want to become an ingineer? work your ass off.
    Want food? Go get a job.
    You think that "basic internet" should be provided before food?

    Edit: saw that you can't spell engineer, opinion clearly irrelevant.
    Anything worth doing is worth over-doing. Moderation's for cowards.

  15. #35
    Immortal Zandalarian Paladin's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Saurfang is the True Horde.
    Posts
    7,936
    Quote Originally Posted by Creamy Flames View Post
    It's not a bad idea at all. But you know what the US will say when it hears the word "taxes". Complete, stubborn refusal.
    It's a close future, but not that close

    Although I wonder how this can be integrated in a legit fashion. Will capitalism even be able to survive the automation revolution?
    Google Diversity Memo
    Learn to use critical thinking: https://youtu.be/J5A5o9I7rnA

    Political left, right similarly motivated to avoid rival views
    [...] we have an intolerance for ideas and evidence that don’t fit a certain ideology. I’m also not saying that we should restrict people to certain gender roles; I’m advocating for quite the opposite: treat people as individuals, not as just another member of their group (tribalism)..

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Him of Many Faces View Post
    how do you have access to affordable ownership in a world where the 1% owns the robots and the 99% has no job and no income?
    Again that is another0 issue with wealth no beeing re-distributed and people will never agree on how to manage this. on another subject, do you realise that the biggest US companies have more cash than many countries?

    For the subject at hand.

    If you own your home (payed for because it was cheap).

    If your kids have access to good, cheap or free schools

    If you have access to reasonably priced energy, food, internet etc...

    If you have excellent free healthcare (like in France or UK*)

    If you have a job you do because you like it.

    Really how much money would you really need for maintenance, vacation etc if you remove 1/2/3 ? Then would you care that the top 1% earn 1 million time more than you?

    Personally, if I had the above; I wont need anything else.

    *the NHS is going downhill, I know

  17. #37
    Mechagnome
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Somewhere in the mountains, idk.
    Posts
    634
    Quote Originally Posted by BalwickZaik View Post
    The first two are covered by amenities.

    The last two are the responsibility of the individual.
    The word amenities does NOT cover things like food and water, an amenity is a desirable thing, with the implication that it is optional.
    Anything worth doing is worth over-doing. Moderation's for cowards.

  18. #38
    Pit Lord Wiyld's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Secret Underground Lair
    Posts
    2,347
    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Oberyn Martell View Post
    They are all part of basic human needs though.
    http://www.simplypsychology.org/maslow.html
    Quote Originally Posted by Gillern View Post
    "IM LOOKING AT A THING I DONT LIKE, I HAVE THE OPTION TO GO AWAY FROM IT BUT I WILL LOOK MORE AND COMPLAIN ABOUT THE THING I DONT LIKE BECAUSE I DONT LIKE IT, NO ONE IS FORCING ME TO SEARCH FOR THIS THING OR LOOK AT THIS THING OR REMAIN LOOKING AT THIS THING BUT I AM ANYWAY, ITS OFFENDS ME! ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME!!!"
    Troof

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by xero5141 View Post
    You think that "basic internet" should be provided before food?

    Edit: saw that you can't spell engineer, opinion clearly irrelevant.
    It is just an opinion. Access to the internet is a basic human right in Europe and described as such.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Yunru View Post
    Its kinda funny. A company could simply report they only have 2 robots (while in reality they have 50). And they would do that to avoid the tax.
    in that case its fiscal evasion, and they have to pay the fine, like everybody else would have or the owner go to jail, like it would normally ALWAYS do for everyone.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •