‘Our land’: Russia tells US that Crimea won’t be ‘given back’ to Ukraine

[Deleted]

And Nuclear is as renewable as it gets - once closed nuclear cycle research is complete (somewhere mid-century) we'll have enough uranium to last several thousand years. And then you can kiss our petroleum goodbye.

Somewhere mid-century electric vehicles will have taken over so we do not need your petroleum.

[Shalcker]

Somewhere mid-century electric vehicles will have taken over so we do not need your petroleum.

But you'll still need our energy :P (once you'll finally price in replacement/utilization costs and other long-term effects of solar and wind)

[Kellhound]

And we have lots of #2

Good enough for us. Why worry what you can do for others ahead of what you can do for yourself?

In fact, we're literally world #1 on nuclear energy; US seems to be losing that expertise rapidly.

Which is what will actually matter once wind and solar fad passes through.

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Economy will pick up; they did shift that major procurement to 2020 exactly to prevent "constant suffering and hardship" after all.

And it will be sustainable because we cannot afford anything else :P

If you think we're going to drive ourselves bankrupt trying to one-up US you're delusional. There are enough asymmetric responses.

The US only cares about nuclear power in ships, where we still lead. Wind and solar isnt going to pass, because it is safer and less environmentally hazardous.

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We had those who jumped on that bandwagon too; like European producers they didn't do so well. Obviously Chinese with their state subsidies make stuff cheaper.

And Nuclear is as renewable as it gets - once closed nuclear cycle research is complete (somewhere mid-century) we'll have enough uranium to last several thousand years.

And then you can kiss our petroleum goodbye.

All forecasts say "modest growth in 2017" (except those who always say "doom and gloom awaits Russia!").

Don't really care, my stock investments are going great already.

Loss of hydrocarbon sales will not be made up by nuclear sales, Russia still loses.

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But you'll still need our energy :P (once you'll finally price in replacement/utilization costs and other long-term effects of solar and wind)

The effect of wind and solar are tiny compared to the long term effects of nuclear power. Unlike Russia, most of the civilised world actually cares about what happens to nuclear waste....

[Slant]

Really? its not like 14/16 people was were "behind" 9/11 were saudis or something but nah you had to blame like 2 other country for nothing. Also "France wanting to show everyone how big their penis grew in the past 70 years." so u were saying the US didnt do anything at all they just stood there and watched right? and no i doubt Nato which is mostly US wanted to stay away. if they wanted to stay away they wouldent have attacked Lybia and helped they people were fighting against assad.

The US really didn't want to do anything in Lybia. They had to intervene because the French overestimated themselves and were embarassing NATO.

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Well, don't trust us. We don't trust you either anymore.

If you want something make sure you can enforce it somehow and you're willing to commit sufficient resources to it (like we did with Crimea), or don't whine about it.

Or find some middle ground that will be mutually beneficial, that could work too.

Gee, when did Russia ever trust anyone but Russia... Big shock for us!

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That shit was already dealt with and backup systems were tested and ready in freaking 2015... You'll be shooting your own foot again.

Do you even know what SWIFT is? You can have all the backup systems in the world, if you are not part of SWIFT, chances are my company isn't going to transfer any money to you. The last time we sent money without SWIFT was to India. The money was returned half a year later. When I inquired, I found out that our bank sent the money to their Mumbai division who then sent an actual postman to the address of the company we wanted to transfer money to. With a cheque. When he couldn't find the address nor the company, he just returned the cheque. It took half a year to figure out why we couldn't make that transfer.

Fuck that. SWIFT or bust. Doesn't even matter at this stage if Russia has backup systems. For what, transferring money within Russia? Rofl.

[Skroe]

Do you even know what SWIFT is? You can have all the backup systems in the world, if you are not part of SWIFT, chances are my company isn't going to transfer any money to you. The last time we sent money without SWIFT was to India. The money was returned half a year later. When I inquired, I found out that our bank sent the money to their Mumbai division who then sent an actual postman to the address of the company we wanted to transfer money to. With a cheque. When he couldn't find the address nor the company, he just returned the cheque. It took half a year to figure out why we couldn't make that transfer.

Fuck that. SWIFT or bust. Doesn't even matter at this stage if Russia has backup systems. For what, transferring money within Russia? Rofl.

Of course he doesn't! He talks about SWIFT like it's an IRC Server.

[iLurk]

Russia literally makes nothing that anyone on the world stage wants to buy. America has Intel, Apple, Microsoft, Google, Vmware. Literally every single leading tech industry is in the US.

So, I'm no Russian apologist but...demonstrably false. Kaspersky Labs says hello. Russia has a dangerously talented infosec braintrust the West would be foolish to marginalize or ignore.

[Slant]

Of course he doesn't! He talks about SWIFT like it's an IRC Server.

I have to assume he grossly misunderstood what was talked about. It's a simple mistake, I guess, but it shows the lack of knowledge from which he argues.

[Skroe]

So, I'm no Russian apologist but...demonstrably false. Kaspersky Labs says hello. Russia has a dangerously talented infosec braintrust the West would be foolish to marginalize or ignore.

Kapersky is second rate. I work in the tech sector. Most of the Russians worth a shit work for Western firms.

There is no coincidence that the biggest tech hubs in the world are near the biggest finance hubs. Money. Something Russia doesn't have.

[Slant]

So, I'm no Russian apologist but...demonstrably false. Kaspersky Labs says hello. Russia has a dangerously talented infosec braintrust the West would be foolish to marginalize or ignore.

Kaspersky is one company. Luckily I decided to stick to Windows Defender. Because, truth to be told, antivir programs are shite. I'll never forget MacAffee asking me if they should protect me from spam. I said "Nope, not getting any spam!" and behold, 2 weeks later spam starts arriving in my mailbox. After paying Avast now for two years solid money for their premium bullshit AND STILL GETTING POPUPS EVERY WEEK about some disk cleaning bullshit, I decided to stick to Microsoft with this new machine. Avast never found any virus anyway. So either I'm the most cleanest surfer on the web, never visiting any dodgy sites (like MMO-C and their script infested ads or our favourite trojan breeding ground curse...) or Avast is useless.

But... when he said "stuff worth buying", it's safe to assume he meant that Russia has no tech anyone would want. No computer, no computer chips, no cars, no gear transmissions, no nothing...

The only thing I've been laterally interested in coming from Russia are those VKB joysticks. But that company has to be super small, since they're always sold out. And it's a niche (flight sim) within a niche (computer gaming) industry.

[iLurk]

Kapersky is second rate. I work in the tech sector. Most of the Russians worth a shit work for Western firms.

There is no coincidence that the biggest tech hubs in the world are near the biggest finance hubs. Money. Something Russia doesn't have.

In the age of Shodan and startups run by idea-men and 8 week JS bootcamp devs running their whole infrastructure in DigitalOcean, one could argue you need an internet connection and not much else. But I will concede Kaspersky being a poor example.

[Kellhound]

So, I'm no Russian apologist but...demonstrably false. Kaspersky Labs says hello. Russia has a dangerously talented infosec braintrust the West would be foolish to marginalize or ignore.

Russia has always been good at spying/stealing, that doesnt make them good at innovating beyond that.

[Shalcker]

I have to assume he grossly misunderstood what was talked about. It's a simple mistake, I guess, but it shows the lack of knowledge from which he argues.

You'll be shooting YOURSELF in the foot again. Because you'll be unable to pay for Russian gas, and alternatives cannot be arranged fast enough, while Russia already has arranged alternatives with other countries and within Russia itself.

If you started to prepare for it in 2014 you would still not be ready - and you didn't.

[Deleted]

That won't happen. While SWIFT can do it to small defenseless middle eastern countries far far away, they wouldn't dare to do it to big countries.

If that happens, Russia would immediately cut gas and oil pipelines to eastern Europe. USA/Germany would be fine. Eastern Europe would suffer for something western European countries and USA started. That could end NATO and EU.

Or it could start a war. In modern globalized world removing country from international banking system is equal to declaring war.

[Macaquerie]

What Russians are always overlooking is that international prestige and credibility is far more important than military power, and that any aggressive action sets precedents which may work against you in the future. Sure, they get to hold onto Crimea for the time being, but when China decides that they want to start annexing chunks of Siberia in the next couple decades, who is going to speak up for Russian sovereignty?

[Shalcker]

What Russians are always overlooking is that international prestige and credibility is far more important than military power, and that any aggressive action sets precedents which may work against you in the future. Sure, they get to hold onto Crimea for the time being, but when China decides that they want to start annexing chunks of Siberia in the next couple decades, who is going to speak up for Russian sovereignty?

Noone but Russia itself is going to protect Russian sovereignty, prestige or not.

You're seriously overestimating how much "prestige" from hypocritical Western nations is worth. You aren't going to protect us in this theoretical situation no matter what, so why should we care?

There is no upside to having this prestige anymore.

[Deleted]

What Russians are always overlooking is that international prestige and credibility is far more important than military power, and that any aggressive action sets precedents which may work against you in the future. Sure, they get to hold onto Crimea for the time being, but when China decides that they want to start annexing chunks of Siberia in the next couple decades, who is going to speak up for Russian sovereignty?

What prestige and credibility? NATO has none. Members of NATO in last decades attacked more countries than everyone else combined. NATO talks about those values only when it suits them, ignores when it doesn't suit them.

NATO has no moral ground to stand on.

[Ulmita]

What prestige and credibility? NATO has none. Members of NATO in last decades attacked more countries than everyone else combined. NATO talks about those values only when it suits them, ignores when it doesn't suit them.

NATO has no moral ground to stand on.

The problem with the Russians as i see it, is that with their passive stance have allowed NATO to expand RIGHT ON their borders and bring lots of manpower and hardware. NATO receives Russia's passiveness as weakness. They need to push back, and push back hard. Destroying the Aegis in Romania would be a good start.

[Kellhound]

The problem with the Russians as i see it, is that with their passive stance have allowed NATO to expand RIGHT ON their borders and bring lots of manpower and hardware. NATO receives Russia's passiveness as weakness. They need to push back, and push back hard. Destroying the Aegis in Romania would be a good start.

So starting WWIII is a good start.... staying classy as usual.

[Kaleredar]

This is Europe's backyard, they must deal with Russia. If Europe can take millions of refugees and economic migrants they can afford to spend more on military to counter Russia.

Every time the United States has gone "Some country in Europe is getting land-grabby and despotic? It's happening in Europe, let Europe handle it!" we've gotten dragged into it eventually anyway.

[Ulmita]

So starting WWIII is a good start.... staying classy as usual.

Nothing would start.