Unholy 4 Piece + Uvanimor = the death of haste

[Skjaldborg]

TL;DR: I make the obvious case that 4-piece + Uvanimor reduces the value of Haste so much that it alters the BiS list, including which tier pieces to skip.

To start, here's my DK: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...igtyr/advanced

On Tuesday I got the Unholy 4-piece, and was wearing Draugr. After my current belt dropped yesterday, I swapped Uvanimor in as my second legendary because Unholy 4-piece significantly reduces the number of Festering Strikes you use in a fight and so Draugr value plummets.

I simmed myself before and after the legendary swap.

Before swap: Draugr + 885 Gul'dan ring, with 32088 Str, 15.17% Crit, 18.21% Haste, and 86.71% Mast

531761 DPS; Str = 13.49, Mast = 12.75, Crit = 11.51, Haste = 10.7, Vers = 10.55

After swap: Uvanimor + lucky belt, with 31317 Str, 16.19% Crit, 21.62% Haste, and 83.77% Mast

533930 DPS; Str = 13.77, Mast = 12.84, Crit = 11.37, Vers = 10.59, Haste = 10.47

Keeping in mind that even with the Draugr setup, I felt like I had too much Haste. Drowning in resources. Swapping to the Uvanimor setup threw an additional truckload of Haste onto the pile, bringing me to that magical 21% threshold, but sinking its value to dead last.

Clearly the value of Haste would diminish once you get to 21% Haste, but if you were lucky with gear like I was, 4-piece + Uvanimor (and even Draugr) already makes Haste pretty bad. I think I had somewhere around 17% haste after picking up the 4-piece initially (Gloves instead of Chest) and I was still GCD locked and overcapping both runes and RP.

But ultimately, having 4-piece + Uvanimor makes Haste so bad that it alters the BiS list from what is usually considered, i.e. which tier pieces to skip.

In particular, I find that the tier legs and tier hands are my BiS simply due to the fact that Haste is worth so little and is overcome by the sheer strength on those pieces compared to the lower ilvl stuff from Chronomatic Anomaly. Wearing those two "non-traditional" tier pieces means that I want the Crit/Mastery shoulders from Botanist and the chest from Gul'dan (due to it's Strength). Due to the haste on tier legs and Gul'dan chest, I think it's unlikely that these gear changes will move Haste up on the list.

Once T-19 4-piece goes away, Draugr value will return, and once T-19 goes away entirely, I'm sure the value of Haste will go back up to where we expect it to be (i.e. you want to hang around 21% or so). But if you're like me and got lucky by getting Draugr + Uvanimor, it looks like 4-piece would let us hang around 17% Haste or even lower without adverse consequences.

I said a lot of stuff that's probably obvious, but I wanted to get some additional thoughts and discussion on this.

[Baddok21]

Uvanimor is not a very good legendary on single target or AoE

Reason for this is in any and all NH AoE situations you will have more runes than you can spend due too Scourge the Unbeliever and Pestilent Pustules thats why the legendary Bracer +Trinket are a better combo and Legendary Bracer + Helm. not to mention the +30-40 ilvl of Strength gained in that slot for all 3 options.

The ring just nets so little rune return outside of Vile gas and does not take advantage of Legendary Strength gain, and where Vile gas is best used (AoE) you would not need the effect it grants due to your talents its basicly a well stated ring with a socket that does not have a meaningful legendary proc.

Its kind of crazy to think that Frost has 4 legendaries (Bracer, Helm,Belt,Ring) that are great and only 1 of those on top of that have ANY RNG tied to it (belt) i digress...

[Kronik85]

Uvanimor is not a very good legendary on single target or AoE

Reason for this is in any and all NH AoE situations you will have more runes than you can spend due too Scourge the Unbeliever and Pestilent Pustules thats why the legendary Bracer +Trinket are a better combo and Legendary Bracer + Helm. not to mention the +30-40 ilvl of Strength gained in that slot for all 3 options.

The ring just nets so little rune return outside of Vile gas and does not take advantage of Legendary Strength gain, and where Vile gas is best used (AoE) you would not need the effect it grants due to your talents its basicly a well stated ring with a socket that does not have a meaningful legendary proc.

Its kind of crazy to think that Frost has 4 legendaries (Bracer, Helm,Belt,Ring) that are great and only 1 of those on top of that have ANY RNG tied to it (belt) i digress...

Yup outside of Bracers the Unholy legendaries are trash. I still don't have them and since I have Drapes, Sephuz Secret, Prydaz and the Frost Bracers I've swapped my loot spec to Frost since the odds are much better of getting one that's actually decent. Hoping they will let us target a Legendary in 7.2 to actually get the Fourth Lesson.

Run Sephuz and Prydaz atm, Prydaz seems really good for Unholy since it became a huge stat stick and you can actually proc Sephuz with Smash. It's also really good during DnD since most adds are grippable and you can machine gun out CS during the proc + DnD window.

Either way it's completely unsurprising that Uvanimor and Draugr are utterly pointless atm.

[Maxweii]

This is nothing new really, @Skjaldborg. BIS lists are made before legendaries, which includes tier. Even the bracers devalue haste, in fact MOST of the legendaries we can get devalue it. This was something that happened in 7.0/7.1 and didn't change for this patch as well. Your gear, your character, your legendaries, give you your stat weights which conclude to being able to have a lower haste level. That does not however hold true for everyone.

As a note anyways, 21% haste is not for some break point or haste being devalued at that point. It's merely a good point of rotational flow, fluidity of rotation and combination of SR/BL.

[Deleted]

Thoughts on dropping PP for Epidemic to pad meters and make us look better on bosses like etraus/tichondrius/aluriel/elisande/guldan?

[Deleted]

Uvanimor does grant you more resources, but it doesnt allow you to spend those resources any faster. Haste does. It's quite hard to pin point the value of uvanimor, since there are cases where it does nothing, and some cases where it provides a significant increase in damage.

[madrounds]

As someone with 4 PC and bracer, helm, uvanimor and prydaz should I be switching to bracer and helm instead of bracer and ring? I'm currently using tier helm but hope I get gloves soon

[Deleted]

Thoughts on dropping PP for Epidemic to pad meters and make us look better on bosses like etraus/tichondrius/aluriel/elisande/guldan?

No. /10 char

[Baddok21]

As someone with 4 PC and bracer, helm, uvanimor and prydaz should I be switching to bracer and helm instead of bracer and ring? I'm currently using tier helm but hope I get gloves soon

For M+ and NH use helm/bracer they are the only meaningful gain legendaries for Unholy.

[Maxweii]

Uvanimor still gives a good amount of runes and is comparable to helm in strength you just need to know when and on what fights you won't need it. Prydaz is flat stats and as such is a good gain as well.

[Deleted]

For M+ and NH use helm/bracer they are the only meaningful gain legendaries for Unholy.

Stop spreading BS please bracers are still bis ...

[Baddok21]

Stop spreading BS please bracers are still bis ...

can you read? where did i say "dont use bracers" or that "bracers were not BiS" i have said use the Helm + bracer were in that do you not see bracers...

[Deleted]

Well, I have shoulders + Uvanimor (have no other UH legendaries yet), dropped a "shitload" of haste (went down to 14%) in favor of mastery (so I finally went above 80%) and crit. Guess what, sim result was that I need haste so much that it got higher stat weight than strenght even.

So, what now? Lol.

Armory profile (which for some reason says I "only" have 79% mastery, while ingame it was nearly 81, unbuffed)

[Deleted]

Well, I have shoulders + Uvanimor (have no other UH legendaries yet), dropped a "shitload" of haste (went down to 14%) in favor of mastery (so I finally went above 80%) and crit. Guess what, sim result was that I need haste so much that it got higher stat weight than strenght even.

So, what now? Lol.

Armory profile (which for some reason says I "only" have 79% mastery, while ingame it was nearly 81, unbuffed)

I'm not going to be much help to you but i have a similar situation, due to procs lol. I have insane haste buffs up so often i can barely spend resources. With hero and trinkets etc im sering 140% and it feels like you can spam fe for a dps gain

* I am not suggesting spamming fe, i was just exaggerating to make a joke.

[Skjaldborg]

Well, I have shoulders + Uvanimor (have no other UH legendaries yet), dropped a "shitload" of haste (went down to 14%) in favor of mastery (so I finally went above 80%) and crit. Guess what, sim result was that I need haste so much that it got higher stat weight than strenght even.

So, what now? Lol.

Armory profile (which for some reason says I "only" have 79% mastery, while ingame it was nearly 81, unbuffed)

You don't have the 4-piece.

[Ssateneth]

you talk as if haste is absolute trash. you only look at A > B > C > D, but you dont see how close they are. this is nothing like mop scaling where fury warrior was like crit = 10 and haste = 2.

the stats are really well balanced. you might get 0.5% more damage switching some gear around, but nothing gamebreaking. use whatever you get more ilvl with.

[Skjaldborg]

you talk as if haste is absolute trash. you only look at A > B > C > D, but you dont see how close they are. this is nothing like mop scaling where fury warrior was like crit = 10 and haste = 2.

the stats are really well balanced. you might get 0.5% more damage switching some gear around, but nothing gamebreaking. use whatever you get more ilvl with.

From the values listed above, Str, Mastery, and Crit (in that order) are what I would consider substantially better than Vers and Haste. Those last two are within margins of error and I would consider them equal in practice. But Mastery is still about 20% better per point than Haste for me, which is not negligible.

[Ssateneth]

But still. Its only 20% better. Not 500% better. Blowing things out of proportion imo.