So how are your games going lately? [megathread]

[Eapoe]

Which is why a Tracers stats will be compared to other Tracers within a given ranking range, and not other heroes. That way it doesn't matter if you flanker vs a direct damage DPS dealer. Same with objective time, it doesn't matter in terms of an absolute value, just as a relative value to other Tracers within your comparable bracket.


So just as a super simple visual example - say as a Tracer in a game you have 30 kills and 1 minute objective time. Stats show on average at your current rank of x, on that map Tracer should be getting around 23 kills and have 1:30 objective time. So you're above on kills but below on time on the objective.


The rating calculator will use a coefficient that is favourable in kills but slightly penalising in objective time. So if 23 kills and an objective time of 1 minute are assigned a value of 1 each, then 30 kills could be 1.1 and the objective time 0.9. Also factored in are other tracer specific factors - times blinked, health recalled, metres covered etc.





Again, hero specific calculations, not a global system - looking at average stats will eliminate the problem of x hero vs y hero, so yes, Roadhog, sure kills and hooks would be a major consideration rather than DVa which would consider her strengths and abilities, Reinhardt's shield uptime and damage blocked will be more of a factor than Winstons. Why is it unrealistic and almost impossible to calculate? It just seems to me you can't wrap your head around it so you declare it as impossible.




So players would find a way to play their hero well and be rewarded for it? That's sort of the point I'm getting at. Any system is abusable if someone tries hard enough, as long as the ranking equation is balanced then it shouldn't be all too abusable, if at all. How do you envisage something like this being abused? Play Genji and just farming kills while flanking and your team loses? Great, you'll be recognised for the kills, but objective time and the loss will work against you, and the stats compared to other Genji's at that level will dictate how rewarded you are for the kills and how penalised you are for the objective time.

Then just account for team play by assigning a value. So furthering my last example, because 25% of Genji's kills were team based and the Genji average for that map is 40%, the team play factor will be slightly below the average, working against him.



I disagree and I think penalising players for the matchmaking system grouping you with random players and losing even if you play incredibly well yourself is a halfhearted design.

What I think isn't feasible is your personal matchmaking rating being so heavily tied to random people. I'm proposing the team aspect of that takes a backseat and individual skill based on the meta-statistics for that hero are used.

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Which is part of my point, if you were good enough to get 3 gold medals then you were either incorrectly matched with people on your team, a failing of the matchmaking and ranking system - one of my greivences.

So yes, it does say something about your team as a whole, if you as a poor 76 player could get 3 golds, then either you were above them, or they were below you as a standard.

Under my proposed system, depending on how you did vs other 76s within your ranking range it would calculate how well rewarded you were.

I don't know if you won or loss that game but for the purposes of my example I'm going to assume you lost. Under the current system, you'd straight up lose rating. As Endus said, you might not lose as much based on your relatively better performance than your team mate but you still lose rating.

Again, another assumption - I'm going to say you're rank 2500. So here's a super bastardised version of it all:

The first thing looked at is your stats versus 76's between a rank range of say 2400 and 2600 for example. On the map you played, you scored below average on accuracy, below accuracy on kills, above on healing done, above on objective time, neutral on helix kills.

So from the off, you'll be unfavourable in accuracy and kills, but favourable in healing and objective and neutral on helix kills - how much is dependent on how far from the regional average you are.

You'd get a small bonus multiplactive coefficient for the gold medals because you're better relative to your team. so think 1.00 for nothing, 1.25 for 3 golds.

And teamplay would be look at, so lets say as 76 because you did a lot of healing to team mates that is looked on favourably, as is your assist kills and kills within the objective.

Then finally the loss coefficient is put in.

Ultimately because you did well on a losing team, you'll still lose rating, but on ~5. Because your team mates were much more below the average in that game, they lose more rating.

This is still not a fair and objective playstyle to choose for official ranking for matchmaking. Let's go by your Tracer example. This comparison is very biased because now you are at the mercy of how your team plays to decide how you rank personally. A Tracer won't get that many kills or objective time without her team backing her up and coordination. Not to mention, match to match, no player will always play the same map the same way twice. So you set a bar of 23 kills with 1 min objective time. You now force that player to meet certain criteria to rank up. Sometimes Tracer players will actually have very low kills but still help the team with a coordinated effort of getting the team to turn around. Some matches a Tracer might never step foot on the objective. These playstyles can still help win the match, yet now based on personal matchmaking ranks you force that player to stay on an objective for X amount of time, or even have some players never move off point except when they see a low character for that last hit. This is counter intuitive to some playstyles of characters.
Going by the tank example, let's go with Rein. Players can easily figure out that blocked damage rewards them more than damage or kills. So now people pick Rein and just sit there with shield up full time , never taking advantage of a team opening or creating an opening, because why bother when you can slowly climb the ranks by just letting enemies eat at your shield? Also, let's say doing this make sure it easier to climb ranks (slowly, sure), but combine that with a factor of DVa's matrix factoring higher, these are much easier to gimmick than a Road hook, so you've effectively taken RH out of the game because tanks will just sit there and absorb damage and climb ranks from it.
You're next point is confusing. In your example, you're showing Genji should gain ranks because he got kills on a loss, yet will lose rank because he got those kills while not having objective time? Again, this forces players to do things that they aren't picked to really do. These examples prove my point. People won't pick characters and then get good with them, they will do the math and find that based on calculations, it will be easier to climb personal ranks with 76 just for sitting on a payload or KotH for objective time while spraying bullets trying to tag everything for a kill or kill assist, where Genji climbs slower, if at all, because while flanking the player has less objective time and potentially less kills.
As much as I hate saying this and agreeing with it, it's a team based game. We choose to play with people we know or random players. If we (as players) think we are such great players, we need to find people we play well with and group with them or choose to play with random people and roll the dice. Of course your rank will rise and fall based on who you play with.

[kaamila]

Won 8/10 placements - the two I lost were the affore mentioned multiboxer, and a Hanamura where half my team didn't even push even though we were on 2/3 of Point A captured (by myself, Reaper and Sombra). So, thought it was going alright and playing pretty well against mid-gold and plat players. Places me at 1695, previous seasons placed me at 2300 (S2) and 46 (S1). What the fuck is that about?

maybe you weren't playing as well as you thought? i dont mean that as an insult, just a possible reason. i won 2 placement matches out of 10 and got put into 2300

[Jessicka]

maybe you weren't playing as well as you thought? i dont mean that as an insult, just a possible reason. i won 2 placement matches out of 10 and got put into 2300

It's possible I guess, but I dunno I felt like I was having a decent impact on the games and my actual stats look alright. I know last season I finished up at 1790 after a lose streak I just didn't go back to try to fix, but I literally stopped losing SR even though I lost matches at that point. I played a couple more matches, lost one I was with a team who several of the players were level 25 and they played like they bought the game that day; I didnt lose SR so fuck knows, just time wasted and got me really salty. Next two got me back to 1760 or so. Just feels like placements were a total waste of time to put me so low that I lose nothing from losing the games and get max reward for winning. I'd rather have started out at 1780 and had those 8 wins count for something.

Id be fine getting back to mid gold again, I know I'm not masters level or anything and it's where I play in QP, just frustrating getting these games with players who frankly don't have the game experience to be in Comp. I'm not even bothered if they pick Hanzo or Sombra or whoever, as long as they know to work for the objective and do stuff, have some match awareness and not leave me asking them what it is they're actually trying to do. Like that match with the entirely new players, Ana and I were like 'we are the only ones who've actually killed anyone here... where are you and what are you doing?'

[Post]

I lost 7/10 placement matches this season and got put at 2500.

[Jessicka]

Placements were so much better than actual Comp matches. I launch my self destruct at enemy team, Mei walls it in. Match chat fills with the other team "Thx Mei".

This shit is why I stopped last time. It never, ever happens in QP, but it seems so endemic to Comp it's unbelievable. Every other match. Somehow we scraped a draw from it, but I just cannot understand people in there who do this shit.

[Deleted]

Won 8/10 placements - the two I lost were the affore mentioned multiboxer, and a Hanamura where half my team didn't even push even though we were on 2/3 of Point A captured (by myself, Reaper and Sombra). So, thought it was going alright and playing pretty well against mid-gold and plat players. Places me at 1695, previous seasons placed me at 2300 (S2) and 46 (S1). What the fuck is that about?

It takes into account your S2 rating in the end, not the placement. Also, 2300 S2 might actually be close to current 1700 because a lot of people were placed higher than they should've because the system was messed up.

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I lost 7/10 placement matches this season and got put at 2500.

The placement score means practically nothing this season. You just get the same you ended last season with, give or take couple hundred.

[Cattleya]

got to 2978 last night and then got into a losing streak, RIP the diamond dream

[Deleted]

Problem is, that heavily punishes supporting, a role no one cares about anyway. We chose Mercy simply for that strategy so we would win and it worked, and the healing was constant throughout as well. But im basically being punished for not picking a DMG dealer and shooting into a mass of red targets. When without the Mercy we would have lost.

Its really getting under my skin that no matter how much Im on fire or do my job, Im not getting decent rating for each game. Its an uphill struggle against the system and the quality of player than you can only really succeed against with constant play.

The seasons being only 3 months long dont accurately manage to rate peoples skill either, so a gold player to me, is nothing different from a diamond. But you can bet I'll lose shit tons of rating to one and gain nothing. I genuinly hate seeing diamond players with lots of games played, because 9/10 they're garbage compared to a normal plat.

Never play dps so I can't really compare, but playing nothing but Mercy I was able to reach Master without too much difficulty. About two hundred games this season, on average two games a day, gaining maybe 30 points for victories and losing 15-20 for losses. I can't say I noticed much of a difference in the games where we dominate and I can't do much as there is little to heal and noone to ress, to the ones where I'm on fire the entire time resurrecting 1-2 people every minute or so.

[Anzaman]

Noticed that season is soon ending, so decided to go do placements.

I probably could climb to 3000, but not really interested in comp nor golden weapons. So eh, comfy here - could buy new weapon once I get CP's from rank placement.

[Jester Joe]

Won 8/10 placements - the two I lost were the affore mentioned multiboxer, and a Hanamura where half my team didn't even push even though we were on 2/3 of Point A captured (by myself, Reaper and Sombra). So, thought it was going alright and playing pretty well against mid-gold and plat players. Places me at 1695, previous seasons placed me at 2300 (S2) and 46 (S1). What the fuck is that about?

I won 8/10 of my placements too I'm pretty sure, and got 2490 or something like that as a placement, around the same for S2 I believe, and S1 was 49.

I know people were mentioning that the "On Fire" bar is taken into account also, possible you weren't on fire much?
I mean, I doubt who you picked has to do with it, but I dunno, I only picked Zarya pretty much (With an odd Junkrat/Lucio I think).

[Deleted]

Gotten 3012 in placements with 6 losses 4 wins.
Got 3150 last season, pretty sure it keeps your season's last SR in mind for placements.
Got master this season so curious what i'll get now for placements, mid/high diamond i'm guessing.

Honestly though i'm starting to hate the game (or the players), it was a lot of fun at the start but after so many rounds it's stale and boring, everyone's a tryhard, constantly facing top500 in QP & so on, can't play anything other than your main character without getting annihilated, i'm not sure why i keep playing this. addicting factor of skins i guess. i had the same feeling of dissapointment & boredom when i still played wow and did battlegrounds all the time... the concept is so much fun, but the players make it a horrible experience.

i played my girlfriend's account a week ago whom was at gold, there's a massive difference in skill to diamond/master.
the stupidity, trolling and horrible teamwork is exactly the same, but the individual skill difference of players is enormous.

[ThatsOurEric]

It straight-up doesn't happen. The system is set up specifically to prevent any such experience.

Going to have to disagree with you there.

It'd be thing if most players find an even ratio of wins or losses in their pool. So out of every ten games, they should win five of them.
Or perhaps its more common for players to lose *slightly* more than winning. So it's more of a 6/4 ratio. Also not terrible.

But when you generally, out of ten games, win 2 or even 3, that is a major problem. When it occurs far TOO frequently for it to simply
be a case of "bad luck", then the system is either not working at all, or I dunno, you have the worst case of luck in the world. Hence
the "Elo hell is absolutely real" feeling. Even if "elo" is not the correct term, the damn RNG of the MMR is far too often never in my
favor for me to be convinced otherwise.

[Endus]

Going to have to disagree with you there.

It'd be thing if most players find an even ratio of wins or losses in their pool. So out of every ten games, they should win five of them.
Or perhaps its more common for players to lose *slightly* more than winning. So it's more of a 6/4 ratio. Also not terrible.

But when you generally, out of ten games, win 2 or even 3, that is a major problem. When it occurs far TOO frequently for it to simply
be a case of "bad luck", then the system is either not working at all, or I dunno, you have the worst case of luck in the world. Hence
the "Elo hell is absolutely real" feeling. Even if "elo" is not the correct term, the damn RNG of the MMR is far too often never in my
favor for me to be convinced otherwise.

That's either bad luck, or it's you being so totally over-ranked that you're causing your teams to consistently lose by not contributing enough.

It simply isn't mathematically possible for everyone at a given rank level to be loosing 7-8/10 games.

[Jessicka]

That's either bad luck, or it's you being so totally over-ranked that you're causing your teams to consistently lose by not contributing enough.

It simply isn't mathematically possible for everyone at a given rank level to be loosing 7-8/10 games.

I ended last season with a sub 40% win rate, and stopped losing SR on those losses that wouldn't stop happening. You're wrong. The phenomenally unlucky happens. Many of those losses were deliberate throws and griefing, and leavers.

[Raetary]

almost lvl 300.

my dreams of getting to diamond this season are over it seems.
i just cannot get above 2680

[Endus]

I ended last season with a sub 40% win rate, and stopped losing SR on those losses that wouldn't stop happening. You're wrong. The phenomenally unlucky happens. Many of those losses were deliberate throws and griefing, and leavers.

I didn't say being unlucky doesn't happen. Any random system like this is going to produce some streaks. Some people win at slot machines, too.

But, statistically, this isn't going to be the overall experience for most players, since those factors will tend to balance themselves out. There can be outliers, but the existence of an outlier does not prove that "ELO Hell" exists. It proves that random distributions aren't homogenous, which isn't a shocking revelation.

Checking my stats on overbuff, I'm finally back up over a 40% win ratio. I was down around 36% earlier in the season, due to exactly that kind of bad luck streak. That's what provoked me to actually track my stats, and confirm I definitely gain a lot more rank for wins than I lose for losses. I'm not downranked because I was ranked too highly or because I'm in "ELO Hell", I'm downranked because I had a string of bad luck. I'm an exception, not the rule. I know, statistically, that my experience cannot be the standard experience, because that's not how distributions work. We can't ALL be losing more matches than we're winning. Obviously.

[Daws001]

Took a break after grinding and climbing this season hardcore. Was a bit burnt out but I'm already feeling the pull to play again. Excited to get my first gold weapon next week. Not really sure what my drive will be for next season since I'm not really hankering for another gold weapon. Just have fun I guess.

[Chantique]

almost lvl 300.

my dreams of getting to diamond this season are over it seems.
i just cannot get above 2680

I feel you man. I can't get pass 2500 no matter what i do. Playing most support and its going like this for days: Win one > lose one / lose two > win two / win 2 > lose 3 / win 4 > lose 3........ ad nauseam

Matchmaking really wants to keep me at 50% win rate. Right now, or my team just stomp the enemy team or we get stomped. Also, most of my loses so far are due to people not wanting to counter pick or just picking something stupid like torb on attack...

[Very Tired]

I'm pretty sure there isn't a huge stress on placement matches. Your initial comp rating would be decided mostly by your QP MMR. The 10 placement matches are just rated like any other normal competitive match, except they wait for those 10 games to be up before they give you an actual rating. This is done to prevent people from climbing to the top of their QP MMR then joining competitive for the highest rating possible.

This is why some people saw such a large difference between their Season 2 ending rating and their Season 3 rating after placement matches. Your quickplay rating would still continue to fall or grow over the course of the season, independent of anything you do in comp.

So, in short, those pointless quickplay matches your team threw/fooled around in/got stomped in actually do hurt you.

[Deleted]

Going to have to disagree with you there.

It'd be thing if most players find an even ratio of wins or losses in their pool. So out of every ten games, they should win five of them.
Or perhaps its more common for players to lose *slightly* more than winning. So it's more of a 6/4 ratio. Also not terrible.

But when you generally, out of ten games, win 2 or even 3, that is a major problem. When it occurs far TOO frequently for it to simply
be a case of "bad luck", then the system is either not working at all, or I dunno, you have the worst case of luck in the world. Hence
the "Elo hell is absolutely real" feeling. Even if "elo" is not the correct term, the damn RNG of the MMR is far too often never in my
favor for me to be convinced otherwise.

Had to check my and most of my friends' win ratios. We all actually have 45-55% win ratio. Sounds correct to me.

Maybe you're losing a lot because you're just bad, and the MMR system is trying to push you to your correct rank?