stormblood

[Melsiren]

Thats where FF 14s story fails. The very idea that people could actually die in a world where there's more Phoenix Down's than you know what to do with is simply ludicrous. There are NPC's who complain about extreme poverty who will give every single player thousands of Gil! You kill a litteral GOD at level 20, yet are told by NPC's that a band of common thugs is going to be a challenge. The mechanics and the story just do not line up at all and the result is a hot mess that people just want to skip.

You're making a lot of assumptions here.

The very idea that people could actually die in a world where there's more Phoenix Down's than you know what to do with is simply ludicrous.

Before Palace of the dead was added there was only way one (that I'm aware of) to get a single tuft of Phoenix down. The item is rare, and even then now that we can get more in Palace I don't really feel it's canonical and more of a game mechanic. They offer a way for groups with no healers or jobs that can cross class into raise the ability to pick up one person with out wasting the cairn of Return. I also got the feeling that resurrection in general was almost completely uncommon or unconnonical with in the lore. I always felt the resurrecting with the flash of light the player got was because they were the Warrior of Light, that Hydaelyn bringing them back.

But you also have to remember as far as storytelling is concerned the Warrior of Light never dies, when you fail it's just a game mechanic.

There are NPC's who complain about extreme poverty who will give every single player thousands of Gil!

Yet again, there being Millions or thousands of players doing the same task for a NPC is not canonical,and obtuse to think otherwise. I'm also curious where this example comes from, because all the poor NPCs I can think of off the top of my head give minimal gil rewards, and it's early on during the game. However yet again another case of game mechanic =/= lore/story. Players are not really inclined to do quest if they gain nothing for their time, do you really think Estinien at quest turn in in the middle of Dravanian Highlands took the time to count out rewards to hand out to you while you're on an important diplomatic mission?

You kill a litteral GOD at level 20, yet are told by NPC's that a band of common thugs is going to be a challenge.

First off Primals are not Gods and if you paid attention to the story you would know that, second of all fighting a group of people and one monster are two very different things. I mean the player character (while never going to fail in the end.) is not invincible, defeating primals does not make another threat less treating, this is not some DBZ powerlevel bullets bouncing off of pectorals bullshit. Even then said NPC'S concern (yet again another unnamed source) could be for many reasons, doe that person know you defeated x amount of primals? but you know what that point does not even matter because the thugs are still dangerous.

Heck this whole thing sounds like the Sylvanas got shot in the head so "Lol she got one shot by a level 20 she is weak" argument. If the warrior of Light were to be shot in the head, stabbed though the heart or what ever (assuming Hydaelyn does not protect them) the same thing would happen to the warrior of Light that happens to every one else.

The mechanics and the story just do not line up at all and the result is a hot mess that people just want to skip.

But games will always be that way, some games due to the Genre will have it worse than others but for an MMO to function there will ALWAYS be a time when lore=/= game mechanics. FF14 is just one of the few MMO's that tries to as little as possible break said story with mechanics, but it's going to happen.


With that said I'm done arguing other this, I've seen this go back and forth a couple times so after this I'm not adding more fuel into this fire.

[StrawberryZebra]

I also got the feeling that resurrection in general was almost completely uncommon or unconnonical with in the lore.

Conjourers are pretty common throughout Eorzea and the Raise spell is so simple that even a child can do it. Arcanists are also very prevelant. Realistically, FF 14 should play like a Comic Book Parody - Where the main characters die on every page and are then Raised in the final panel .

These kinds of moments are especially jarring when the player can cast the spell in question too. Like when Haurchefant died. My character was a Scholar and had spent the best part of the Dungeon resurecting people who couldn't move out of the bad stuff. The scene loses all impact when the default responce is "It's cool bro, I got this!"

But games will always be that way, some games due to the Genre will have it worse than others but for an MMO to function there will ALWAYS be a time when lore=/= game mechanics. FF14 is just one of the few MMO's that tries to as little as possible break said story with mechanics, but it's going to happen.

This is exactly why I feel that games shouldn't focus on the story. Video games are unique media because they involve a complex operation of rules and require the input of a player. A priority on story takes away what makes games special and any developer who does so should, in my opinon, be rightly criticised for doing so. The story should be there to serve the mechanics, not the other way around.

Final Fantasy has always been a series that put more emphasis on cutscene and diolouge heavy narative. FF14 is no different really. Sadly, they went the same sort of route as 13 with 14. Having flat, uninteresting and outright boring characters filling in most of the main roles. The Japanese, in general, seem to have missed the fact that a characters flaws are what makes them interesting and unique. Which is why I consider the new Doom Guy (or Doom Slayer, whatever it is we're calling him these days), to be a much better defined character than the entire cast of FF 14. He's far more expressive and emotional than Mary Sue Alphinaud, Mary Sue Minfilia and Mary Sue Y'shtola. All without saying a single word throughout the entirity of Doom.

Square-Enix can do better. They should be doing better. But until then, tieing important game unlocks to the main story is just a stupid idea that ends up forcing people who otherwise enjoy the game away.

Its a genre thats existed for over ten years actually

I was under the impression that Monster Hunter was closer to Dark Souls than an MMORPG? It's something thats been on my radar for a while, but the most recent entries have all been DS exclusive and I don't have the pleasure of owning one.

[Keltas]

if you want to do the outdated story content ... you still can. Just don't force everyone to do so.

- - - Updated - - -

imagine in the 5th expac.... the new guy will have to do hours of outdated content just to be able to finally play with his friends, like wth.

Don't even get me started on the new jobs being locked behind mandatory story quests.

I'm too lazy to dig it up, but Yoshi-p himself has said you will NOT need the HW story to do stormblood story.

The two new jobs will also be in old areas, and not require you to complete anything to unlock (other than have another level 50).

[Ilir]

No I bought FFXIV because it's a MMORPG. See the "massively multiplayer online" part ?

There's nothing MMO when you have to do hundreds of quests alone, when you are forced to do those quests on a job you don't like. It's hard to enjoy a story when you are forced to play something you don't like. How hard is it to understand ?

It's not only a story. It's a game. It's a MMO.

If I was only interested in the story, then I'll read a book/see a movie or play a solo player RPG.

Except FFXIV is not all about the story.

I don't have to like everything about a game to buy it and play it.

[Anzaman]

I'm too lazy to dig it up, but Yoshi-p himself has said you will NOT need the HW story to do stormblood story.

I kinda remember them saying that they changed their mind on that, and people would need to do HW story to get access to Stormblood.

Like I already linked on first page:

Yes, it continues the story.

"To be granted early access and play the new contents from FINAL FANTASY XIV: Stormblood, users need to be playing FINAL FANTASY XIV: Heavensward and have completed certain quests."

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/stormblood/product/

[Deleted]

No I bought FFXIV because it's a MMORPG. See the "massively multiplayer online" part ?

There's nothing MMO when you have to do hundreds of quests alone, when you are forced to do those quests on a job you don't like. It's hard to enjoy a story when you are forced to play something you don't like. How hard is it to understand ?

It's not only a story. It's a game. It's a MMO.

If I was only interested in the story, then I'll read a book/see a movie or play a solo player RPG.

Except FFXIV is not all about the story.

I don't have to like everything about a game to buy it and play it.

The game is set in an MMO, that doesn't make quests mandatory to do alone, that's your choice.

[zito]

Except FFXIV is not all about the story.

You do know that it's still a final fantasy game right? It's a final fantasy game in an MMO setting. If you don't like that then you shouldn't have bought it, but wait, you did, and you did the story, so the problem is what now? That you don't want to do more story? Then you bought the wrong game.

[Kazgrel]

The game is set in an MMO, that doesn't make quests mandatory to do alone, that's your choice.

There are a fair amount of quests that require you to do them solo, although most of the ones that come to mind are the class/job specific ones.

Then there are quests that require a dungeon or trial, and people complain about being forced to do group content to progress the story.

In short, it's damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[Ilir]

Yeah, I will ask my friends to do those fetching quests with me ! Sounds so fun, quality online experience /s.

If all the story quests were about raids/trials/group content I wouldn't mind at all. Except it is not.

Also I like how you nitpick anything and try to twist it.
@zito I get it, your brain can't go further than "final fantasy" and that's why you don't understand anything.

But lemme explain it to you so you can understand : I don't mind doing the story quests when they are relevant aka when FFXIV was just released, I did those story quests and it did not bother me at all because a) i could play the job i wanted and I paid for. b) it was current content.

When Heavensward was released, I did the story quests for the same reason but I was really annoyed that I had to do dungeon farming/fates farming in order to level up my AST but whatever, it wasn't that bad since i already had a level 50 so it didn't take quite as long.

With Stormblood, I will enjoy doing the story quests because it's current .

Now the thing I'm talking about that your brain can't process is : new players see the red mage in the next expac. They're like "yeah ! that job sounds interesting (not everyone knows what FF is about)" so they buy the game, then the expac, then the second expac .... and then they realize they have to do hours of OUTDATED content with a class they may not like.

"but don't buy the game then" yeah... that's a issue. Keep the story mandatory in current content, make old story optional once new expac is out.

You all get to do the story, you make the game more appealing to new players/old players that want to come back after a long break.

- - - Updated - - -

And the worst thing is that after being forced to do those outdated content with a job you don't want to play... you'll have to GRIND the old dungeons/fates in order to level the job you like. Yaaaaaay

[Melsiren]

Final Fantasy has always been a series that put more emphasis on cutscene and diolouge heavy narative. FF14 is no different really. Sadly, they went the same sort of route as 13 with 14. Having flat, uninteresting and outright boring characters filling in most of the main roles. The Japanese, in general, seem to have missed the fact that a characters flaws are what makes them interesting and unique. Which is why I consider the new Doom Guy (or Doom Slayer, whatever it is we're calling him these days), to be a much better defined character than the entire cast of FF 14. He's far more expressive and emotional than Mary Sue Alphinaud, Mary Sue Minfilia and Mary Sue Y'shtola. All without saying a single word throughout the entirity of Doom.
.

Mary Sue does not mean what you think it means.

A Mary Sue is a character that the author identifies with so strongly that the story is warped by it, a self insertion character that has no real purpose to be in the story other than filling someones dreams. Most often times perfect, which none of the FF14 characters are perfect. A Mary Sue is not a character that you dislike. Heck, in most recent years it's become a buzzword from B-grade Rpers and wannabe writers to describe anything they dislike like an American politician screaming communist or socialist to scare the under educated masses away form some thing they dislike.

With that sad, I'm done here I need to go pick up the phone because I fucking called it SAM DPS!

Yeah, I will ask my friends to do those fetching quests with me ! Sounds so fun, quality online experience /s.

If all the story quests were about raids/trials/group content I wouldn't mind at all. Except it is not.

Also I like how you nitpick anything and try to twist it.
@zito I get it, your brain can't go further than "final fantasy" and that's why you don't understand anything.

But lemme explain it to you so you can understand : I don't mind doing the story quests when they are relevant aka when FFXIV was just released, I did those story quests and it did not bother me at all because a) i could play the job i wanted and I paid for. b) it was current content.

When Heavensward was released, I did the story quests for the same reason but I was really annoyed that I had to do dungeon farming/fates farming in order to level up my AST but whatever, it wasn't that bad since i already had a level 50 so it didn't take quite as long.

With Stormblood, I will enjoy doing the story quests because it's current .

Now the thing I'm talking about that your brain can't process is : new players see the red mage in the next expac. They're like "yeah ! that job sounds interesting (not everyone knows what FF is about)" so they buy the game, then the expac, then the second expac .... and then they realize they have to do hours of OUTDATED content with a class they may not like.

"but don't buy the game then" yeah... that's a issue. Keep the story mandatory in current content, make old story optional once new expac is out.

You all get to do the story, you make the game more appealing to new players/old players that want to come back after a long break.

- - - Updated - - -

And the worst thing is that after being forced to do those outdated content with a job you don't want to play... you'll have to GRIND the old dungeons/fates in order to level the job you like. Yaaaaaay

Do you even have a high level friend in FF14? some one who got you into it?because I've gone back and helped five of my friends from 15 to 60, I mean of course I couldn't help them with their quests, I did all my quests with my Fiancee baring the solo duties that forced us to drop group.

Heck, the level sync system the ability to play with my friends of any level as long as their lower than me is my favorite part of the game, I don't feel like I'm doing outdated content when I do it either I just feel like I'm helping a friend by playing the game.

Yet I get it, you don't like it and -nothing- I say or anyone else says is going to fix it for you. Unless a Jump potion is announced today or tomorrow theirs no solution for the problem you have so maybe FF14 is not the game for you, and we'll just leave it at that.

I just don't feel the multiplayer argument holds much ground since you can do everything in game outside of the solo duties with other players.

[zito]

[QUOTE=Ilir;44638389]snip
Your friends bought the game to skip content because you believe it's outdated?

that's a personal problem that you need to get over because you are basically telling your friends the game is shit unless you are the new stuff.

[NatePsy]

I was quite disappointed to learn that once I got to 50, before I can do Heavensward I have to do another completely different Main Storyline that consists of another 100 fucking quests.

[dope_danny]

You all get to do the story, you make the game more appealing to new players

So you think people that have not played a videogame will be put off from playing the game because they have to play all of the games storyline to do the end of the storyline?

Have you not considered you are in fact a minority opinion? theres nothing wrong with that. The only sub mmorpg more successful than FFXIV is WoW. Thats it. I think its doing okay as it is and "i will have to play through the final fantasy to get to the end" is not a huge barrier for entry for a final fantasy game. Theres a lotta mmos out there for the bunnyhopper "gogogogogogogogogogo" crowd that just want an instanced skinnerbox treadmill. They also dont have very successful lifespans because of it.

and thats not "maybe because i dont like the thing theres others who dont" supposition, thats decades of shutdowns as hard evidence that removing the rpg of mmorpg is a longterm death sentence to satisfy a vocal minority that will get in easier and drop the game more often than not as the existing audience that loves it goes "welp, another game going down the toilet to suit complaining form fairweather critics that want every game to be like every game in a sea of homogenised white noise, time for the decline stage to begin again".

If the issue is existing players having less sources of xp for alt jobs thats a game issue that can be fixed with updates, if someone doesnt want to be arsed to play the game then its not the game for them and there are hundreds of alternatives.

[Aruhen]

Actually I'd imagine the story stuff is popular with casual players as it gives them something to do slowly. Of course for the person who just wants to gogo and get to end game... yeah well those are most of the people that complain about it.

[dope_danny]

Actually I'd imagine the story stuff is popular with casual players as it gives them something to do slowly. Of course for the person who just wants to gogo and get to end game... yeah well those are most of the people that complain about it.

Actually they confirmed that in a past live letter. Plus anyone whos tired the last two WoW expansions knows the 'raid or die' mindset is mmo poison for devs to listen to.

[Jinxz]

I played FF14 before and honestly I didn't think the pre-HW story was good. I wanted to get to 50 ASAP and play the expansion content. I gave up before reaching lv50. Story SHOULD be optional, not mandatory. If you want to do the story go right ahead, however, there's people that don't want to do hundreds of boring quests to get to the current content. You guys can bash WoW for offering boosts with their expansions, but that model is perfect to draw in new players. Can you imagine if you had to do the content from BC to MoP just to get to Legion?

I know FF14 is a story driven game, but provide the option for those that don't want to spend hours doing outdated content.

[dope_danny]

I played FF14 before and honestly I didn't think the pre-HW story was good. I wanted to get to 50 ASAP and play the expansion content. I gave up before reaching lv50. Story SHOULD be optional, not mandatory. If you want to do the story go right ahead, however, there's people that don't want to do hundreds of boring quests to get to the current content. You guys can bash WoW for offering boosts with their expansions, but that model is perfect to draw in new players. Can you imagine if you had to do the content from BC to MoP just to get to Legion?

I know FF14 is a story driven game, but provide the option for those that don't want to spend hours doing outdated content.

2 things though.

1:Yes i can imagine going through all the previous expansion stuff, its what we did in WoW for alts pre WoD. The only difference is WoW has storylines for zones not the entire experience via questing.
2:WoW also does not scale anything from previous content updates so you are rushing to a tiny amount of content people still do as the rest becomes a redundant ghosttown used by people sick of the said tiny amount of endgame content to farm for transmog to convince themselves they are still getting their moneys worth. FFXIV scales all instanced content. You are not unable to do something like Syrcus Tower because its level 50 because everyone over 50 is still queing for it for relevant rewards.

I think thats the difference here. Other games have catered people to think this strange, malignant idea that an mmorpg is only worth playing if you B line to max level to do a tiny bit of content on repeat. Thats not how FFXIV works. Everything scales and for some reason or another remains relevant to players who long since outlevel it.

[Ilir]

There's no point in arguing anymore. You only think about yourselves and assume everyone needs to enjoy the story as much as you do otherwise they're cancer/poison. Good grief.

All you did was twist my words and turn them into something that isn't true at all.

/sigh

[Binaris]

There's no point in arguing anymore. You only think about yourselves and assume everyone needs to enjoy the story as much as you do otherwise they're cancer/poison. Good grief.

All you did was twist my words and turn them into something that isn't true at all.

/sigh

Its not that we think your are cancer/poison. It is that we simply do not understand the mentality of buying a story based game to complain about having to do the story. You have plenty of options available to you in other games that are all about the skip and raid crap. We are only so persistent in our defense because we do not want the game to turn into one of those other types of games.

Look at it think way. It is like you are going to a bar complaining about there being alcohol and then crying when the drunk people tell you to stfu. How can you honestly expect a different reaction?

[Ilir]

Its not that we think your are cancer/poison. It is that we simply do not understand the mentality of buying a story based game to complain about having to do the story. You have plenty of options available to you in other games that are all about the skip and raid crap. We are only so persistent in our defense because we do not want the game to turn into one of those other types of games.

Look at it think way. It is like you are going to a bar complaining about there being alcohol and then crying when the drunk people tell you to stfu. How can you honestly expect a different reaction?

I understand your point.

Mine was just to make old story quests not mandatory to get to the next expac aka ARR/HW but make the current expac story mandatory but I guess it could create a schism between the players because you'd have those who enjoy the story and those that just skipped everything before Stormblood.

I just wished there could me a middle ground ^^

Cheers