Draught of Souls & other trinkets

[Deleted]

Yesterday my bad lack in regards of trinkets somewhat dissapeared and a 910ilvl Draught of Souls dropped for me.
Now I stand to wonder what trinkets to use.

So far I managed to obtain:
860 Eye of Command
865 Bloodthirsty Instinct
865 PvP Crit/Agi statstick
870 Memento of Angerboda
880 Ethereal Urn
880 Entwined Elemental Foci
910 Draught of Souls

Yes, I am aware of the spreadsheet and it's easy to condlude that, according to it I should go for Draught of Souls + Eye of Command,
HOWEVER: according to that Ethereal Urn is quite low on the list, but Ethereal Urn + Eye of Command was simming higher than Bloodthirsty Instinct + Eye of Command for me.

My preferred composition ATM is DoS and Urn, with which I'm sitting at 37.71% crit, 12.06% haste and 38.28% mastery. I also have 4set and ring.
I want to know what you guys think about my trinket situation - what is the best composition?

I will sim it all tonight (or tomorrow) regardless and let you know of the result.

Another thing I wonder about is the usage of DoS... it seems a bit underwhelming.. compared to the other trinkets even when using it with the guidance of the spreadsheet.

[Elim Garak]

Just sim it, and ignore anyone else in this thread after my post

[Raiju]

Just sim it, and ignore anyone else in this thread after my post

Except a lot of the trinkets listed have advantages/disadvantages that the sims don't have accurate models for:
BTI is heavy weighted in constant add fights, not due to aoe but due to massively increased proc uptime (over 50% is normal)
Eye of command is the opposite with target switching, and is also not particularly conducive to a tiny burst window given it takes 4~ seconds to stack up
Memento gets far better in weaker groups because you generally have more deaths anyway, which is more procs
Draught allows you to ignore knockback mechanics such as shockwave on skorpyron

[Deleted]

Urn will increase dmg from Chaos Blades, thus increasing ur dps with draught. go for it

[Extremity]

Don't ever use Memento based on having more raid deaths and thus more procs. If you use it anyways and that happens, great. Don't use i when you normally wouldn't because you're expecting deaths.

Simming is your best bet here, remembering to sim again after any change.

The Mastery trinket will become better as you gain more passive crit. While simming should be your #1 source of information, you can't always rely on it 100% for every single piece of gear you equip or else you'll sometimes end up in a set that leaves you Fury starved. Make sure you're maintaining an *absolute minimum* of 35% crit + 4 piece, aiming for around 40%. If you can maintain that (or near that) without the EoC, go for the Urn.

I'm swapping to an 865 EoC w/ socket on fights like Krosus because I'm at about 37% crit baseline and I really feel the difference when I'm sub-40... but I notice even the smallest amount of downtime and absolutely hate it, some others might be more used to it and not feel as much of an impact when they hit 2-3 seconds of no fury. Every time I Throw Glaive, I die a little inside.

[Raiju]

Don't ever use Memento based on having more raid deaths and thus more procs. If you use it anyways and that happens, great. Don't use i when you normally wouldn't because you're expecting deaths.

If you are far above the skill level of your guild and progging heroic - it's completely normal for kills to be riddled with deaths and therefore reliable.

Context. Just because YOU'RE in mythic where you can't afford too many deaths in mythic doesn't mean everyone is. A lot of those trinkets are low ilvl so it's likely they aren't in mythic, at which point it's mostly a numbers game. Raid size will also matter (obviously memento is less powerful in a 10man than a 30man)

[Extremity]

If you are far above the skill level of your guild and progging heroic - it's completely normal for kills to be riddled with deaths and therefore reliable.

Context. Just because YOU'RE in mythic where you can't afford too many deaths in mythic doesn't mean everyone is. A lot of those trinkets are low ilvl so it's likely they aren't in mythic, at which point it's mostly a numbers game. Raid size will also matter (obviously memento is less powerful in a 10man than a 30man)

I didn't say specific to me or him or anyone. In any situation you really shouldn't increase the trinket's perceived value based on raid deaths. It doesn't really matter what the situation is. You shouldn't gear based on the premise that your raid will fail; that's not a "mythic only" opinion. So what, as your raid does better overall your performance drops? It's just ridiculous to gear around that; it's like comparing a stat stick to a completely RNG trinket, except this is RNG to the extreme. Unless the alternatives are entirely, absolutely terrible, you should not use a Memento that sims under other trinkets because you think raid deaths will increase its sim value - ever.

[Raiju]

Except it isn't ridiculous to gear around deaths on a difficulty where with the deaths you can still get the kill (and see a lot of deaths). Your mindset is completely incorrect for weaker raidgroups. You're blindly relying on sims while ignoring reality, where in reality the reason memento is so powerful is BECAUSE of that death proc.

Sure, it's not conducive to mythic where you realistically need everyone alive most of the fight to be able to secure a kill, but this isn't true on heroic & normal. Deaths happen throughout and you just drag them through as it doesn't meant the remainder of your group can't kill the boss - the reason you are wiping is usually a high number of mechanical fails (leading to more deaths), not a lack of numbers that makes it tight when you lose a couple people.

And I'm guessing you've never raided with a resto shaman or ret paladin in your life as 'as your raid does better overall your performance drops' is a fact of life for them. Oh and part of the reason resto is so strong.

[Guyv3r]

Been using this to compare myself, + askmrrobot sims.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets..._047I/pubhtml#

Got myself:

890 Draught of Souls (equiped)
865 BTI (equiped)
870 Memento of Angerboda
880 Nightbloom Frond

[Reignfire]

You know, while I respect most peoples thought process and definitely test myself, I'm starting to question peoples absolute reliance on sims. I have a tendancy too look up players that make very factual toned statements and compare and contrast.

So here is my my advice about trinkets and simming: Simming is going to give you a round about image of the ball park you should be in to possibly show any glaring holes in your ability to perform. In terms of trinkets if it's simming within a small marging...5k on the scale of 700k is pretty small....then go with what will give you the most consistency. You damage is going to be affected far more greatly from RNG/mechanic execution on any difficult content then the small differences in trinket simming.

[Deleted]

Hey guys, a small update - I didn't manage to sim the trinket properly when I tried to due to not being sure on the conditions for it.
I however got some upgrades and am sitting at above 40% crit unbuffed.

The combination I ended up using is DoS and Urn and it works pretty well.

eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/sylvanas/Mnementh/simple

Thank you all for the input!

[Tradu]

Except a lot of the trinkets listed have advantages/disadvantages that the sims don't have accurate models for:
BTI is heavy weighted in constant add fights, not due to aoe but due to massively increased proc uptime (over 50% is normal)
Eye of command is the opposite with target switching, and is also not particularly conducive to a tiny burst window given it takes 4~ seconds to stack up
Memento gets far better in weaker groups because you generally have more deaths anyway, which is more procs
Draught allows you to ignore knockback mechanics such as shockwave on skorpyron

Why would BTI have higher uptime with more targets? That's not how RPPM trinkets work at all. The "more procs at low HP" thing in the tooltip of BTI is pure RP, it doesn't actually do that.

[Raiju]

Why would BTI have higher uptime with more targets? That's not how RPPM trinkets work at all. The "more procs at low HP" thing in the tooltip of BTI is pure RP, it doesn't actually do that.

Wowhead does seem to claim that, although looking at logs definitely shows a trend where a) the proc is far below wowheads given RPPM on predominantly single target encounters, and b) the procs are usually condensed in the second half of those fights (as in over 50%, whereas due to BL at start and near guaranteed pull proc on standard RPPM's one would expect the exact opposite). Lastly, for the 10 or so logs I looked at none of them even had a BTI proc for 20+ seconds into the fight, which seems even stranger for a standard RPPM.

I don't claim to say for certain the 3 RPPM is wrong, and in general it's a good rule to follow on longer fights and anything with add interaction (I know I often saw 50%+ on add fights and sub 40% on predominantly ST's). Certainly I know tooltips are often incorrect but there is data to support the idea that it actually procs more at lower hp, even if the end result is similar to wowheads 3 RPPM.