Rooting For "Deep State" To Undermine Trump Is Destroying Democracy In Name Of Saving

[shrunken]

So.... if he orders the military and the intelligence agencies to start committing crimes against humanity on the American people, you want them to obey like obedient little drones? The concept of people in these positions operating both within the law and following their conscience is something that most rational people would consider a good thing.

I'm glad that you specified "on the American people", since Obama spent the last 8 years blowing up little brown kids with toy airplanes in far flung places and nobody in the West seemed too torn up about it.

[Kasierith]

I'm glad that you specified "on the American people", since Obama spent the last 8 years blowing up little brown kids with robots in far flung places and nobody in the West seemed too torn up about it.

While I'm not going to deny how shitty it is from a humanitarian perspective, putting that purely on Obama seems pretty silly, considering that western civilization has been killing off its enemies for as long as it has existed. Drones are merely one of the latest tools in a long list of technological advances designed to outpace their opponents. India didn't fall to Britain because the British were smarter or more numerous; they just had long range ship mounted batteries capable of wiping out any infrastructure they laid their eyes on. If a village didn't agree to bow to the crown, they weren't let go or even able to fight in actual combat; they had grape shot blasted through everything that moved so the next village would get the message. Global democracy is built on little humanitarian inconveniences like that.

[Damajin]

According to CNN and Buzzfeed you're a whacko conspiracy nut if you believe in the Deep State.

[shrunken]

While I'm not going to deny how shitty it is from a humanitarian perspective, putting that purely on Obama seems pretty silly,

Putting it "on" him? Damn dude, I'm just giving props to the Michael Jordan of international terrorism.

[Independent voter]

“I, AB, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.”

Everyone in the FBI, CIA and NSA swears this oath, every US citizen is a big fan of the Constitution. It might not mean anything to you but it means a lot to a lot of people. All it would take to shut down the Deep State is one fan of the Constitution.

[Stormdash]

“I, AB, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.”

Everyone in the FBI, CIA and NSA swears this oath, every US citizen is a big fan of the Constitution.

That would, it's worth noting, be the same Constitution under which all those executive branch employees' sole claim of legitimacy as agents of government come from the fact that they work for the Chief Executive described in Article II of said Constitution. The thing I find most... well, it's just lunacy, is what it is... this notion that employees of the executive branch are a legitimate constitutional check on the authority of the executive branch. That's just sheer idiocy yet I see it flooding facebook, twitter, forums, etc, as the new nobility. It's a posture that violates that oath, not fulfills it.

[Elegiac]

Why do I get the feeling this thread exists because Skroe used the term 'deep state'.

- - - Updated - - -

That would, it's worth noting, be the same Constitution under which all those executive branch employees' sole claim of legitimacy as agents of government come from the fact that they work for the Chief Executive described in Article II of said Constitution. The thing I find most... well, it's just lunacy, is what it is... this notion that employees of the executive branch are a legitimate constitutional check on the authority of the executive branch. That's just sheer idiocy yet I see it flooding facebook, twitter, forums, etc, as the new nobility. It's a posture that violates that oath, not fulfills it.

Their oath is to the office of President, not the person.

[CostinR]

If he breaks the law he should be impeached. Do it through the damned legal channels instead of pissing on the very fabric of America's constitution. Because that's what a coup would do.

Even Nancy Pelosi has said publicly that he's done nothing that's impeachable.

[starlord]

where was all this concern about leaks and governemtn factions during the election?

[Elegiac]

If he breaks the law he should be impeached. Do it through the damned legal channels instead of pissing on the very fabric of America's constitution. Because that's what a coup would do.

Even Nancy Pelosi has said publicly that he's done nothing that's impeachable.

People care what Nancy Pelosi thinks, apparently.

[Theodarzna]

“I, AB, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.”

Everyone in the FBI, CIA and NSA swears this oath, every US citizen is a big fan of the Constitution. It might not mean anything to you but it means a lot to a lot of people. All it would take to shut down the Deep State is one fan of the Constitution.

Are they defending the constitution or the interests of the Military Industrial Complex?

[NED funded]

I'm ok with a permanent state shitting on the elected president. There is a limit to the power of the presidency and this agencies ensure that is the case.

[Theodarzna]

I'm ok with a permanent state shitting on the elected president. There is a limit to the power of the presidency and this agencies ensure that is the case.

I thought the limit was the Congress and the Courts.

[NED funded]

I thought the limit was the Congress and the Courts.

Congress is controled by a party that just seems to roll with Trump's bs in hopes of political favors in order to push their desire agenda. E.G Paul Ryan has been quite, because he wants Trump's support on his border tax adjustment plan.

[Nihilist74]

[Stormdash]

Why do I get the feeling this thread exists because Skroe used the term 'deep state'.

- - - Updated - - -



Their oath is to the office of President, not the person.

The oath isn't to either; it's to the Constitution. The Constitution vests the executive power in the President of the United States. Every employee of the executive branch, generally speaking, is an employee of that executive. Their entire claim of legal authority derives from that employment. They have no standing, whatsoever, to treat their employment there as a platform from which they can try to thwart, countermand, or undermine the policy making objective of the executive, because it's the executive that was put there to set policy.

The constitutional checks on the power of the President are A) the legislature, and B) the judiciary. The political checks on the power of the President are "elections". The executive employees, if they don't like the President or the President's policy goals can... y'know, quit. They can report illegal activity they perceive to the FBI or to the IG of their agency. What they can't do is squat in their civil service position and try to govern contrary to the policy of the actual elected political offices of the United States. That, again, is a violation of their oath, not a fulfillment.

[Skroe]

Friendly reminder that Glenn Greenwalf hates America and its generally good policy to do the exact opposite of what he says.

[Shadowferal]

There is nothing inherently wrong with taking down democracy. There is not some golden rule written down in the core of the universe that has declared democracy as the ultimate achievement of mankind's governance.

Nothing inherently wrong...no.
But here in the US...law and order would disappear for a long while and either martial law would be declared or anarchy would be the rule for a time. Neither of which is any good.

[belfpala]

According to CNN and Buzzfeed you're a whacko conspiracy nut if you believe in the Deep State.

Except I've seen both (I think) report on how the CIA is reluctant to give certain information to the White House now. Isn't that a "deep state" move?

[Shadowferal]

Except I've seen both (I think) report on how the CIA is reluctant to give certain information to the White House now. Isn't that a "deep state" move?

Sounds more like common sense. Trump hasn't been very trustworthy as it pertains to state secrets.