stormblood

[StrawberryZebra]

Man, you must absolutely love whatever tiny little bit of the game that keeps you playing. Your hatred of all the rest of it is just so intense. It actually reads like teenaged, angst filled Anakin Skywalker posting on a gaming forum.

Suprisingly enough, the part of the game I enjoy is... The game. I like the PvP, the Dungeons and the Raids. The Trials are amazing one-and-done boss fights with some of the best boss music in any game ever. PotD neatly combines what I love about Roguelikes and Dungeon crawling into one nice little package. I like the mindless abnegation of grinding out my Anima weapons and leveling up other jobs. In short, I like playing the game.

What I do not like is the story that, were it not for unlocking important content, would be entirely detached from the game in every single way. They don't even make the effort to make it engaging or interesting, they just throw cutscenes and fetch quests at you for 60 levels. It's been nothing but a pain in the arse for me since I started playing and I've seen it push away more people than it's ever going to attract. It's doing far more harm than good.

The role of the ARR and Heavensward story needs to be reconsidered for Stormblood if it is to attract, and keep, new players. If that is the Jump Potion they were considering or simply allowing you to move on to the Heavensward and Stormblood content when you reach the right level is something that remains to be seen. Nothing is the worst thing they can do right now, and any changes would be a positive step in the right direction.

I think I'm fully done here, before you beat your meat again to how awesome and well written of a character Doomguy is.

I said he was well defined, not well written. He's a great example of how you can characterise through game play alone. He's dripping with personality and his interactions with the other characters tell you exactly what he thinks of them. All without a single word involved. He's almost the polar oposite of FF characters, who have tonnes of diologue, some of the best voice acting money can buy and yet still have no identifiable personality under it all.

[Binaris]

This is Final Fantasy. When Yoshi picked up the project and rebuilt the game from the horrible state it was in, it was his goal to make a Final Fantasy that felt like a Final Fantasy. A game that could attract new players and well as engage the lifetime players with a sense of nostalgia. They did not fail in their goal. The game is not perfect, but too much story has nothing to do with it.

Sadly the newer generation of gamers have a hard time appreciating a good story. They didn't grow up in the golden age of rpgs when the games were essentially interactive novels. Nowadays the spoiled brats get to a quest, even if it is a delivery, and say tldr like that is something to be proud of. Yes there are a lot of delivery quests. yes a lot may seem tedious. But these are ways to get your character interacting with other npcs to justify wat they know. You are ot some hero who just knows because they know. You are a living part of the world gaining experiences and developing relationships.

Honestly, if the story in this game irks you so much, go play call of duty or some shit and stop the incessant whining that a story based game has story. It is supposed to and has been doing fine so far without selling out to the type of gamers that simply want their loot.

[Eleccybubb]

This is Final Fantasy. When Yoshi picked up the project and rebuilt the game from the horrible state it was in, it was his goal to make a Final Fantasy that felt like a Final Fantasy. A game that could attract new players and well as engage the lifetime players with a sense of nostalgia. They did not fail in their goal. The game is not perfect, but too much story has nothing to do with it.

Sadly the newer generation of gamers have a hard time appreciating a good story. They didn't grow up in the golden age of rpgs when the games were essentially interactive novels. Nowadays the spoiled brats get to a quest, even if it is a delivery, and say tldr like that is something to be proud of. Yes there are a lot of delivery quests. yes a lot may seem tedious. But these are ways to get your character interacting with other npcs to justify wat they know. You are ot some hero who just knows because they know. You are a living part of the world gaining experiences and developing relationships.

Honestly, if the story in this game irks you so much, go play call of duty or some shit and stop the incessant whining that a story based game has story. It is supposed to and has been doing fine so far without selling out to the type of gamers that simply want their loot.

Honestly I agree here. Story is really decent except from the stupid amount of breadcrumb and fetch quests from 2.0-2.5. Only time in an MMO recently where I've cared about the story a lot. And the side story stuff such as Hildibrand as well.

[HAcoreRD]

This is Final Fantasy. When Yoshi picked up the project and rebuilt the game from the horrible state it was in, it was his goal to make a Final Fantasy that felt like a Final Fantasy. A game that could attract new players and well as engage the lifetime players with a sense of nostalgia. They did not fail in their goal. The game is not perfect, but too much story has nothing to do with it.

Sadly the newer generation of gamers have a hard time appreciating a good story. They didn't grow up in the golden age of rpgs when the games were essentially interactive novels. Nowadays the spoiled brats get to a quest, even if it is a delivery, and say tldr like that is something to be proud of. Yes there are a lot of delivery quests. yes a lot may seem tedious. But these are ways to get your character interacting with other npcs to justify wat they know. You are ot some hero who just knows because they know. You are a living part of the world gaining experiences and developing relationships.

Honestly, if the story in this game irks you so much, go play call of duty or some shit and stop the incessant whining that a story based game has story. It is supposed to and has been doing fine so far without selling out to the type of gamers that simply want their loot.

Put this on a shirt. This message needs to get out there.

[Sorrior]

If the issue with an rpg is "i dont want to play through the rpg" then the issue is with the individual not the game. Homogenisation in the name of 'wider market appeal' has watered down and neutered so many mmos and killed them off because devs listened to people whos only complaints were summed up to 'i dont actually like your game but want it to change to suit me and core audience be damned' and its become so common in gaming that its becoming a more common reaction that people react negatively to it because people have seen where it leads.
It still sucks if its a friend playing catch up of course but if you are the singular player who hates the quests, hates the story and wants to skip it all you gotta ask yourself what are you skipping to get to and why is it worth it to begin with?

I am noticing it in ALOT of games compare DAO to DAI or Morrowind to oblivion then skyrim. Each successive game offer less choice less rolepplay more pre made sets abd styles then the previous ones

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There's no point in arguing anymore. You only think about yourselves and assume everyone needs to enjoy the story as much as you do otherwise they're cancer/poison. Good grief.

All you did was twist my words and turn them into something that isn't true at all.

/sigh

Maybe it is a good game design choice but not one that suits you. I feel you are focusing on the mmo aspect abd not the RPG factor

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Because it does when a vocal minority are catered to by developers and change a game in a way that fails to draw in a new audience and isolates and drives away the others. 9 out of 10 popular ip's of the 2000's died to this change for 'wider market appeal' based on an assumption that a change would net a positive gain of an audience that is not there.

This. The core of the game is story and to change how it works would alienate a great many players.

It also would likely encourage a very large amount of people who frankly don't fit in with the story first culture of the game. The gogogogogogo types. This game doesn't need that and is much better with the lesser needs of it we have. I actually feel the story focus weeds alot of them out

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Also from said Wiki page;

First in Japan it was sealed not removed

Second we are basically forced to reincarnate and fight. I for one believe one reason we revive more easily and fully is due to hydalen. I for one feel it is all explained very well in lore and pretty sure they say she expends alot of energy to keep us alive

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How silly of me to assume the creatures frequently refered to as "Deities" that are essentially the manifestation of prayers were gods. If they're actual gods or not, they are certainly considered as such by both the Ascians and the Beast tribes. And by their other worshipers in the case of Thordan and Shiva. Thancred even jokes that you, the player, are their own personal god-slayer.

Hell, its even hinted at by the Ascians that the player may be a form of Primal too, given strength by the worship of the people of Eorzea.



Do remember that he remarkably gained all of his combat abilities off screen. He went from being a strict none-combatant to skilled Arcanist in the time it takes for you to pass through the gates of judgement to the Foundation. By the time you get a couple of quests in, he's even advanced so far he can summon two entirely new Carbuncles he invented as he went along.

He also went from being Mystery Kid in the opening scene to de-facto of the Scions by basically just showing up out of the blue one day and inserting himself into the role while Minfilia was captured.

As for the Crystal Braves, I think you'll need to do better than him acknowledging that he's too much of an idealist as evidence that he's not a massively idealised character .



They tried far too hard to make her endearing and overshot. It's like a Choccolate Cake thats topped with Ice Cream, then covered in Sprinkes and Raspberry Sauce and served on a bed of Summer Fruits, Toffee and Marshmallow. It's just too much! Every time she did that eager little dance I just wanted to violently vomit out my own internal organs I despised her that much. They even had her playing the damsel in distress role once or twice too just to really cement how much I hated her.

Might I suggest looking up the story of 1.0. They are the grandchildren of the scions founder abd canonical alphinaud is very adept with kerning which makes sense given his pedigree

[dope_danny]

I am noticing it in ALOT of games compare DAO to DAI or Morrowind to oblivion then skyrim. Each successive game offer less choice less rolepplay more pre made sets abd styles then the previous ones

Sadly we live in the age of the trophy for participation generation where not only have the consumerbase been flooded with the "heavy user hyper casual" as gaming became more mainstream but more developers joined companies with no experience at all bringing in ethos like "theres a skip cutscene button, where is the skip gameplay button". Its a horrible mindset that you dont want a complete product, you want a tiny bit of it and the rest can just be dlc or skippable entirely.

Unfortunately it means "i press R1 till the thing dies, i'm a dragonborn daddy!" diet coke rpgs like skyrim get treated as something to be emulated rather than the trashfires only used for modding 6 months after release they actually are.

God knows what these people would make of a game like Vampire the masquerade Bloodblines where you spend most of it talking to people and reading text!

[StrawberryZebra]

Sadly the newer generation of gamers have a hard time appreciating a good story. They didn't grow up in the golden age of rpgs when the games were essentially interactive novels.

You are making a lot of assumptions right now. The Golden Age of the RPG was really the early 80's, when gaming was in its infancy. Video Game RPGs were the only game type that really offered much in the way of exploration or any kind of freedom, and were almost exclusively centered on puzzle solving and dungeon crawling. Games like Ultima, Ultima 3 especially, Bard's Tale and Wizardry were huge titles at the time. You can clearly see the influence the Wizardry series had on Final Fantasy, with its use of menu based combat and Advanced Classes you could take later on.

Table Top RPG's on the other hand were a completey different beast all together. They were a colaborative story telling experience, in which each player has agency over the direction the story could go. They put the emphasis on the freedom to express who you were within the game world and rules of most games allowed you to reinforce that by the choices you took when faced with challenges. They were unique in that much of the mechanics served as the meat story, something which Video Games to this day still struggle with.

Video Game RPG's as a means to tell a story didn't come along until much, much later. Even then the story was largely sidelined in favour of the gameplay. Look at games like Baldur's Gate, it has a story, it has a good story even, but the main focus of the game is exploring the world, gathering up loot and doing your absolute best to kick Elminster in the gonads whenever he shows up.

Video Game RPG's with a heavy focus on storytelling to the exclusion of all else only came along in the late 90's and early 2000's. The ones who did were almost exclusively JRPG's too, who would create cutscene heavy games and tell the story in a style more fitting for cinema than video games. This was the point when RPG's really started to lose their way, they became more about spectacle than substance, with flashy cutscenes interrupting game play and control frequently being taken away from the player. Western RPG's didn't really start flexing their narrative muscles until the last 10 or so years, and with it has brought the trend towards more story heavy games in general.

But enough with the history lesson. Let me ask you, "Why do we need RPG's to be interactive novels?". We already have interactive novels, they're almost as popular on Steam Greenlight as those asset flipped survival games. It's up for debate if they're even games because they have absolutely no game play to them. Interactive Novels are always going to be better at being Interactive Novels than RPG's will. Movies are always going to be better at being movies than even the most cutscene heavy game ever will. Video games trying to emulate other media takes away from what makes them unique. What makes them special.

Honestly, if the story in this game irks you so much, go play call of duty or some shit and stop the incessant whining that a story based game has story.

First, "Story Based Games" are ones like The Beginners Guide, the Stanley Parable or Everybody's gone to the Rapture. Those games jokingly dubbed "walking simulators". What little game play there is serves only as a vehicle to deliver the story. That's their entire reason for existing.

Cramming story where it doesn't belong is like playing Monopoly, but every time it gets to the Banker's turn you have to all stop playing, walk away from the game board and listen to the Banker read a chapter of Don Quixiote before you are allowed to continue the game. The state of your Monopoly board has no effect on the story of Don Quixiote. The story of Don Quixiote has no relevance at all to your game of Monopoly. I know it sounds absurd, but it is essentially where we are with the story telling in FF 14 right now.

The story has no relevance or effect on the gameplay, and the gameplay has no influence at all on the story. For a "Story Based Game" the "story" and "game" parts are kept entirely separate, like they both exist in their own little bubble and are kept away from each other. In reality what we have a "Story alongside the Game". It's clunky, expositional and absolutely kills the pacing of the game. For the people who just want the story, the gameplay is nothing more than an inconvenient barrier they need to grind through to get to the next cutscene.

It is supposed to and has been doing fine so far without selling out to the type of gamers that simply want their loot.

What about the type of gamers who want their gameplay? The kinds of people who play the game for hours for nothing but the simple joy of playing. People go running for nothing but the joy they find in simply running. People drive cars for the joy of driving them. Is it really that far out of the question that people just enjoy playing video games?

[dope_danny]

snip

"cramming story where it doesnt belong" in a mainline Final Fantasy?

Is this real life?

[Binaris]

im done arguing with this brick wall. he wants and apple to be an orange and wont take no for an answer. perfect example of the customer not always being right

[Usagi Senshi]

I'm all for skipping the story and I thoroughly enjoyed every single story bit (I do have over 10k screenshots of the game :P ) and would never skip it.

Some people love the story and some just want to do the MMO bits with their friends and I'm alright with that.

I've had seven friends from WoW start and play the game and five got to 50 and stopped once I told them how much longer they had to get to where I was at, and the other two got to 60 and just went back to WoW. One came back though because they hate Legion and tries to get me to stop (eh, nope, love my monk too much and the game is pretty fun atm for pugging everything I will stop playing for a bit once Stormblood comes out though) playing it, lol.

One friend wants to come back and play a samurai though and I told her just to start a monk and finish up the story bits and get it one and done and out of the way.

[StrawberryZebra]

im done arguing with this brick wall. he wants and apple to be an orange and wont take no for an answer. perfect example of the customer not always being right

I'm simply asking you to come up with something more substantial than "Because Final Fantasy!!". That is in no way, shape or form a remotely acceptable explanation for the story being mandatory. It's a statement of fact, the game IS Final Fantasy, but it's not a reason in and of itself.

I'm all for skipping the story and I thoroughly enjoyed every single story bit (I do have over 10k screenshots of the game :P ) and would never skip it.

Some people love the story and some just want to do the MMO bits with their friends and I'm alright with that.

I'm all for this. The current system is a massive barrier to entry to new players, and it's only going to get worse as more expansions are added. Are the level 50 quest chains really going to be all that critical when the max level is 100 and they're 5 expansions out of date? I'd say no. It's already pushing away players who want to just jump in and play with their friends by how much of a brick wall it is. Going forwards, it's only going to take longer to catch up to the current level of content, and past content is going to be less and less relevant as the story advances.

I'm not advocating that any semblance of story be removed from the game entirely, only that the Story shouldn't be required to advance to Heavensward and Stormblood content and players allowed to do the content they please. It's a win-win solution for everyone involved. But apparently that makes me Super-Napoleon-Devil-StalinHitler around here .

[Deleted]

I don't know where/when this started, but isn't it already confirmed that they are looking at starting a completely new entry storyline that doesn't require you to relive 2.0-3.55+ ?

It's completely stupid that you have to undergo the whole process and I doubt that they'll do it if they want to catch some new players. It's too much, it's as simple as that.
WoW doesn't do that either, for the very same reason.
It's really a no-brainer.

[Katchii]

I'm simply asking you to come up with something more substantial than "Because Final Fantasy!!". That is in no way, shape or form a remotely acceptable explanation for the story being mandatory. It's a statement of fact, the game IS Final Fantasy, but it's not a reason in and of itself.

Why? Because you say it isn't?

There doesn't need to be a more substantial argument just because you don't like the answer. Additionally, shockingly....this forum and the posters on it aren't the authority on the subject, Yoshi-P and team are. They've stuck with this model for both 1.0, 2.0, 3.0 and now 4.0...I don't really see them changing it. Deal with it.

Final Fantasy games are story based games. This is a Final Fantasy game...therefore it's story is very central to the game experience.

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I don't know where/when this started, but isn't it already confirmed that they are looking at starting a completely new entry storyline that doesn't require you to relive 2.0-3.55+ ?

No, to get to Stormblood, you need to have done some of the Heavensward quests (they haven't specified which or how many) which means you need to get to Ishgard...which requires the entire 2.0-2.55 main story quest chain.

I'll find the link, it's been posted earlier in this thread.

Here's the Link. The quote is at the very bottom of the page. It doesn't specify if this is only for early access or for everyone, but 'd imagine that everyone will need to be at the same point in the story to gain access, SE is just posting a specific note here because people expecting early access won't be able to get to the new content if they don't meet the requirements and are imagining (rightly so) that people would be pissed about that.

[Sorrior]

Sadly we live in the age of the trophy for participation generation where not only have the consumerbase been flooded with the "heavy user hyper casual" as gaming became more mainstream but more developers joined companies with no experience at all bringing in ethos like "theres a skip cutscene button, where is the skip gameplay button". Its a horrible mindset that you dont want a complete product, you want a tiny bit of it and the rest can just be dlc or skippable entirely.

Unfortunately it means "i press R1 till the thing dies, i'm a dragonborn daddy!" diet coke rpgs like skyrim get treated as something to be emulated rather than the trashfires only used for modding 6 months after release they actually are.

God knows what these people would make of a game like Vampire the masquerade Bloodblines where you spend most of it talking to people and reading text!

Lol I grew up in the 90s so am part of trophy gen but damn if I don't remember fondly staying up late playing bof3 to kill the crazy guy in the volcano as a kid(kept whooping my ass partly because I needed his fire skill)

But yeah I mean j can enjoy a good arpg(I MUST recommend Amalur the Reckoning) I feel though part of it is indeed what you say about companies taking over but also the rise of COD and lobby games(also monad)bringing about the age of multi-player added on. Annd then yeah dlc.

Just sucks I mean hell even Wow back then had a very very good world

But yeah I feel their is an obsession with overbalancing and a lack of flavor/world building to appease papers and rpgs are being toned down in favor of more "streamlined" homogenized games. Abd devs wonder WHY indies are so big

[Deleted]

No, to get to Stormblood, you need to have done some of the Heavensward quests (they haven't specified which or how many) which means you need to get to Ishgard...which requires the entire 2.0-2.55 main story quest chain.

I'll find the link, it's been posted earlier in this thread.

Here's the Link. The quote is at the very bottom of the page. It doesn't specify if this is only for early access or for everyone, but 'd imagine that everyone will need to be at the same point in the story to gain access, SE is just posting a specific note here because people expecting early access won't be able to get to the new content if they don't meet the requirements and are imagining (rightly so) that people would be pissed about that.

Haha... what a gigantic fuck up on their parts when it would be the perfect time to include some sort of new story line branch, since we are also on a new continent and such

I'm pretty sure Yoshi himself said in an interview that they were planning something like that and since the Samurai questline starts at lvl 50. It would've been the perfect moment to introduce something similar to what we have with Demonhunters/Deathknights.

Nearly no (truely) new players inc for Stormblood, I'm pretty sure about that already. People won't bother doing this.

[Sorrior]

You are making a lot of assumptions right now. The Golden Age of the RPG was really the early 80's, when gaming was in its infancy. Video Game RPGs were the only game type that really offered much in the way of exploration or any kind of freedom, and were almost exclusively centered on puzzle solving and dungeon crawling. Games like Ultima, Ultima 3 especially, Bard's Tale and Wizardry were huge titles at the time. You can clearly see the influence the Wizardry series had on Final Fantasy, with its use of menu based combat and Advanced Classes you could take later on.

Table Top RPG's on the other hand were a completey different beast all together. They were a colaborative story telling experience, in which each player has agency over the direction the story could go. They put the emphasis on the freedom to express who you were within the game world and rules of most games allowed you to reinforce that by the choices you took when faced with challenges. They were unique in that much of the mechanics served as the meat story, something which Video Games to this day still struggle with.

Video Game RPG's as a means to tell a story didn't come along until much, much later. Even then the story was largely sidelined in favour of the gameplay. Look at games like Baldur's Gate, it has a story, it has a good story even, but the main focus of the game is exploring the world, gathering up loot and doing your absolute best to kick Elminster in the gonads whenever he shows up.

Video Game RPG's with a heavy focus on storytelling to the exclusion of all else only came along in the late 90's and early 2000's. The ones who did were almost exclusively JRPG's too, who would create cutscene heavy games and tell the story in a style more fitting for cinema than video games. This was the point when RPG's really started to lose their way, they became more about spectacle than substance, with flashy cutscenes interrupting game play and control frequently being taken away from the player. Western RPG's didn't really start flexing their narrative muscles until the last 10 or so years, and with it has brought the trend towards more story heavy games in general.

But enough with the history lesson. Let me ask you, "Why do we need RPG's to be interactive novels?". We already have interactive novels, they're almost as popular on Steam Greenlight as those asset flipped survival games. It's up for debate if they're even games because they have absolutely no game play to them. Interactive Novels are always going to be better at being Interactive Novels than RPG's will. Movies are always going to be better at being movies than even the most cutscene heavy game ever will. Video games trying to emulate other media takes away from what makes them unique. What makes them special.



First, "Story Based Games" are ones like The Beginners Guide, the Stanley Parable or Everybody's gone to the Rapture. Those games jokingly dubbed "walking simulators". What little game play there is serves only as a vehicle to deliver the story. That's their entire reason for existing.

Cramming story where it doesn't belong is like playing Monopoly, but every time it gets to the Banker's turn you have to all stop playing, walk away from the game board and listen to the Banker read a chapter of Don Quixiote before you are allowed to continue the game. The state of your Monopoly board has no effect on the story of Don Quixiote. The story of Don Quixiote has no relevance at all to your game of Monopoly. I know it sounds absurd, but it is essentially where we are with the story telling in FF 14 right now.

The story has no relevance or effect on the gameplay, and the gameplay has no influence at all on the story. For a "Story Based Game" the "story" and "game" parts are kept entirely separate, like they both exist in their own little bubble and are kept away from each other. In reality what we have a "Story alongside the Game". It's clunky, expositional and absolutely kills the pacing of the game. For the people who just want the story, the gameplay is nothing more than an inconvenient barrier they need to grind through to get to the next cutscene.



What about the type of gamers who want their gameplay? The kinds of people who play the game for hours for nothing but the simple joy of playing. People go running for nothing but the joy they find in simply running. People drive cars for the joy of driving them. Is it really that far out of the question that people just enjoy playing video games?

Ummm you just described wrpg(pen and paper esque) and JRPG(story driven) philosophy ya know.

Thing is rpgs have always had a story focus more then other games and choices such as what skills to choose. Even JRPGs while having less choice have removed areas to explore.

Alot of both have suffered

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Haha... what a gigantic fuck up on their parts when it would be the perfect time to include some sort of new story line branch, since we are also on a new continent and such

I'm pretty sure Yoshi himself said in an interview that they were planning something like that and since the Samurai questline starts at lvl 50. It would've been the perfect moment to introduce something similar to what we have with Demonhunters/Deathknights.

Nearly no (truely) new players inc for Stormblood, I'm pretty sure about that already. People won't bother doing this.

They were and I think they tested it in a quest where you relive your memories of everything that happened pre Nidhoggs demise

Also I think maybe we need a new classification of RPG MMO as opposed to MMORPG

[StrawberryZebra]

Why? Because you say it isn't?

There doesn't need to be a more substantial argument just because you don't like the answer. Additionally, shockingly....this forum and the posters on it aren't the authority on the subject, Yoshi-P and team are. They've stuck with this model for both 1.0, 2.0, 3.0 and now 4.0...I don't really see them changing it. Deal with it.

Final Fantasy games are story based games. This is a Final Fantasy game...therefore it's story is very central to the game experience.

Appeals to Tradition are weak arguments.

But just to unpack it further, let's say you're right that Final Fantasy games are based around their central story. What about Final Fantasy Explorers? What about All the Bravest? What about Final Fantasy Legends, or Record Keeper or even Chocobo's Crystal Tower. Even Dissidia is based more around it's gameplay than it's story, and lets not even get started on the Theatrhythm series.

Clearly the assertion that Final Fantasies are Story Based games is a fallacy - There are plenty of Final Fantasy games where it isn't the case. This is why it's a weak argument, it's shockingly easy to disprove.

[Deleted]

Appeals to Tradition are weak arguments.

But just to unpack it further, let's say you're right that Final Fantasy games are based around their central story. What about Final Fantasy Explorers? What about All the Bravest? What about Final Fantasy Legends, or Record Keeper or even Chocobo's Crystal Tower. Even Dissidia is based more around it's gameplay than it's story, and lets not even get started on the Theatrhythm series.

Clearly the assertion that Final Fantasies are Story Based games is a fallacy - There are plenty of Final Fantasy games where it isn't the case. This is why it's a weak argument, it's shockingly easy to disprove.

All the games you mentioned are not mainline final fantasy games. That is the big difference.

[Sorrior]

Appeals to Tradition are weak arguments.

But just to unpack it further, let's say you're right that Final Fantasy games are based around their central story. What about Final Fantasy Explorers? What about All the Bravest? What about Final Fantasy Legends, or Record Keeper or even Chocobo's Crystal Tower. Even Dissidia is based more around it's gameplay than it's story, and lets not even get started on the Theatrhythm series.

Clearly the assertion that Final Fantasies are Story Based games is a fallacy - There are plenty of Final Fantasy games where it isn't the case. This is why it's a weak argument, it's shockingly easy to disprove.

I believe the term main series games has been used aka the numbered entries such as FFXIV if it was Final Fantasy Online Raiders Paradise you might have a point but it's not and you don't.

Hell I know a few people who may quit because of story stuff but it just means not fir them and I ALWAYS emphasize the story requirements

[Thage]

So the last few pages summed up: "I don't like Final Fantasy games. Make FFXIV less like them." No thanks, dude. If you don't like Final Fantasy games, it's ok not to play. Mechanically it's not all that different from most games out on the MMO market now.

So! Back on topic for Stormblood. Who else is hyped for Red Mage, Samurai, Ala Mhigo, and Doma?